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Trailer Lug Bolts

brulaz
Explorer
Explorer
How easy is it to knock out and install new lug bolts in a trailer hub?

For some reason one hub on our trailer is breaking lug bolts. Only one hub: I lost two bolts about 24k miles ago, and now I've busted two more of the original lugs at 44K miles.

The other three hubs have never had a problem.

I'm afraid the next time it'll happen on the road when I'm changing a flat (rather than at home-base during the annual rotation).

So I'm wondering if changing a lug bolt can be easily done with just a hammer, punch and wrench. There's some stuff on the internet that suggests it can be done ...
2014 ORV Timber Ridge 240RKS,8500#,1250# tongue,44K miles
690W Rooftop + 340W Portable Solar,4 GC2s,215Ah@24V
2016 Ram 2500 4x4 RgCab CTD,2507# payload,10.8 mpgUS tow
29 REPLIES 29

j-d
Explorer
Explorer
Chum lee wrote:
Anytime ANYONE other than me touches the wheels on any of my vehicles I ALWAYS check at least one or two fasteners per wheel for proper torque. You would be amazed by how many "technical experts" get this simple thing wwwaaaaaaayyy wrong. Too loose and it comes off on its own. Too tight and I need the 3/4" drive impact sockets and the industrial strength impact gun (which are at home) to get he lug nuts off. No thanks! Chum lee


Same here. Vehicle goes into the shop with wheel covers at home. When I get the vehicle back, I do a Loosen-then-Tighten on every nut. I've found nuts so loose I could turn them with my fingers, and so tight I had to change to a 3/4 drive ratchet for the Loosen phase. On the SAME vehicle!

An article warns about corrosion, dirt, and rust on the facing surfaces of Wheel and Hub. If the surfaces aren't wire brushed clean, torque can still be reached. But driving will pulverize that material and the Wheel-to-Hub clamping force is lost, effectively loosening the nuts.
If God's Your Co-Pilot Move Over, jd
2003 Jayco Escapade 31A on 2002 Ford E450 V10 4R100 218" WB

Chum_lee
Explorer
Explorer
myredracer wrote:
j-d wrote:
From this authoritative reference...
Very interesting info. Thanks for posting that. I wonder what other factors there could be like vehicle weight, car/truck vs. trailer, out of balance wheel or if alloy wheels have steel inserts or not?

Although we're supposed to re-torque our lug nuts xxx miles after initial mounting & torquing (including vehicles), I wonder how small the percentage is that actually do?


Anytime ANYONE other than me touches the wheels on any of my vehicles I ALWAYS check at least one or two fasteners per wheel for proper torque. You would be amazed by how many "technical experts" get this simple thing wwwaaaaaaayyy wrong. Too loose and it comes off on its own. Too tight and I need the 3/4" drive impact sockets and the industrial strength impact gun (which are at home) to get he lug nuts off. No thanks!

Chum lee

brulaz
Explorer
Explorer
fj12ryder wrote:
brulaz wrote:
...
And yes, like I said, the wheels have been rotated several times, so not the same wheel.
Not the same wheel, but the same drum. I'd serious be looking at the drum for flatness in wheel mounting area.


Thanks. Will do.
2014 ORV Timber Ridge 240RKS,8500#,1250# tongue,44K miles
690W Rooftop + 340W Portable Solar,4 GC2s,215Ah@24V
2016 Ram 2500 4x4 RgCab CTD,2507# payload,10.8 mpgUS tow

fj12ryder
Explorer II
Explorer II
brulaz wrote:
...
And yes, like I said, the wheels have been rotated several times, so not the same wheel.
Not the same wheel, but the same drum. I'd serious be looking at the drum for flatness in wheel mounting area.
Howard and Peggy

"Don't Panic"

brulaz
Explorer
Explorer
Ron3rd wrote:
You might also consider just replacing the drum. They're cheap and come with new studs installed


Yes, have thought of that. But think you would also want to replace the bearings and races as well, so they match?

But wanna try replacing a stud anyway, so I know how to do it when out in the middle of nowhere, just in case.

Actually know a guy who carries around an extra new hub with new races installed and new bearings, just in case. Don't think I'll go that far though.

And yes, like I said, the wheels have been rotated several times, so not the same wheel.
2014 ORV Timber Ridge 240RKS,8500#,1250# tongue,44K miles
690W Rooftop + 340W Portable Solar,4 GC2s,215Ah@24V
2016 Ram 2500 4x4 RgCab CTD,2507# payload,10.8 mpgUS tow

myredracer
Explorer II
Explorer II
j-d wrote:
From this authoritative reference...
Very interesting info. Thanks for posting that. I wonder what other factors there could be like vehicle weight, car/truck vs. trailer, out of balance wheel or if alloy wheels have steel inserts or not?

Although we're supposed to re-torque our lug nuts xxx miles after initial mounting & torquing (including vehicles), I wonder how small the percentage is that actually do?

j-d
Explorer
Explorer
Ron3rd wrote:
You might also consider just replacing the drum. They're cheap and come with new studs installed


That and even the Wheel if it's always been the same one. Nuts and all.

The articles I read, stressed that failure usually happens somewhat shortly after tire or brake work. Not next day particularly, but within a few months. Mentions that all this work is returned to customers with a reminder to re-torque, and evidence indicates very few actually do it.
If God's Your Co-Pilot Move Over, jd
2003 Jayco Escapade 31A on 2002 Ford E450 V10 4R100 218" WB

Ron3rd
Explorer
Explorer
You might also consider just replacing the drum. They're cheap and come with new studs installed
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j-d
Explorer
Explorer
From this authoritative reference...
In fastening failures we have observed that wheel separations generally occur 175 to 3000 miles, and one to fifteen weeks, after a wheel was taken off and put back on during some service, such as a tire installation. The remainder of this article discusses the causes of wheel separations from fastening failures.

Left vs. right side wheel separations

From our experience and laboratory and on-road testing (Bailey and Bertoch, “Mechanisms of wheel separations,” Society of Automotive Engineers 2009) we have found that there is a different pattern of evidence in left vs. right side wheel separations. Left side wheel separations usually occur after the wheel nuts spin off and right side wheel separations tend to occur after the wheel studs break off.

Figure 5 shows a wheel stud and the hole of the left wheel that it was in. The nut has spun off the stud and was never found.

and...

The wheel nuts and studs basically sandwich the wheel and brake components together. The nuts and studs have to squeeze those components together with enormous force, called the clamping force, in order for the sandwich to stay together. The clamping force is made when the nuts are tightened onto the studs. If the clamping force is lost, then the nuts loosen, leading to the different mechanisms of left-side nut spin-off and right-side stud reversed-bending fatigue.

The mechanism for the left side wheel nuts spinning off as the vehicle travels can be understood from the geometry of the wheel and studs when the wheel is slightly loose. Since the stud holes are larger than the studs, the wheel is not perfectly concentric with the axle when the nuts are loose. When the road pushes up on the tire, the wheel tends to be pushed up relative to the axle centerline. This means the wheel centerline is slightly above the axle centerline. This centerline offset gives rise to a relative velocity vector between each wheel nut and the part of the wheel the nuts touch. This vector is in the loosening direction on the left side when the vehicle is driving forward and is the cause of wheel nuts spinning off the left side.

The right side nuts have that same relative velocity vector, but in the opposite (i.e., tightening) direction. It turns out that this vector is not strong enough to make a loose nut tight again. So, on the right side, a loose nut tends to stay loose rather than spin off. But this invites another mechanism – fatigue. When a nut is tight, the clamping force creates large frictional forces at the wheel/hub interface that transfer the vertical forces that support the weight of the car. However, when a nut is loose, there is no clamping force, and the studs now carry the vertical forces. This bends the studs up and down every time the tire rotates. Just as a paper clip breaks when you bend it back and forth a few times, a wheel stud can break when it is bent up and down a few million times. This is called reversed-bending fatigue, and is the reason that right-side studs eventually break off when the nuts are loose.

The starting point for a wheel nut to spin off the left side, or for a stud to break off the right side, is the same: the nut had to be loose. Therefore, the investigation of fastener-related wheel separations should focus on the clamping force.

I'm home, grounded, sick, so I tried a little more research. From that...

Does this trailer use Aluminum (mag, whatever, not Plain Old Steel) Wheels? They seem to promote for clamping force (torque) issues, and also expand/contract from heat differently than the steel in the hubs and brakes.

And speaking of heat, an article mentioned how a hot brake can promote loosening of lug nuts since there's more expansion/contraction than if the brake isn't dragging.
If God's Your Co-Pilot Move Over, jd
2003 Jayco Escapade 31A on 2002 Ford E450 V10 4R100 218" WB

mike-s
Explorer
Explorer
fj12ryder wrote:
Bicycle pedals rotate around the axle that is tightened onto the pedal shaft. If the pedal tightened up, it could loosen the axle. Very big difference between that and lug nuts. I don't believe precession enters into the equation.
Then you'd be wrong. Granted, there's normally no movement with properly torqued fasteners. But if there's any movement at all, precession will quickly loosen them all the way. It's a documented fact that it was done. And that's why it was done. It's not done now, because taper seats are used, and hub centric mounting is common.

A lot of semi-tractors and tandems still use left hand threads on the left side (e.g. stud piloted Budd wheels).

Auto lugs.

fj12ryder
Explorer II
Explorer II
Bicycle pedals rotate around the axle that is tightened onto the pedal shaft. If the pedal tightened up, it could loosen the axle. Very big difference between that and lug nuts. I don't believe precession enters into the equation.

It obviously isn't an issue since no one does it anymore, and there doesn't seem to be a epidemic of wheels falling off on the left hand side. The laws of physics don't seem to have changed since they thought it was a good idea. One of those old engineer's tales.
Howard and Peggy

"Don't Panic"

mike-s
Explorer
Explorer
fj12ryder wrote:
j-d wrote:
...
Which side of the trailer is this happening on? Now that pretty much everybody now uses right hand threads on both sides, the Left/Driver side poses a problem since driving forwards tends to loosen right hand threads on the left side of a vehicle.
...
What? Seriously? Joke, right?
Nope. Precession. If there's any looseness at all, the bolt/nut will very quickly set itself free.

Same reason bicycle pedals are left-hand threaded on the left pedal.

fj12ryder
Explorer II
Explorer II
Lynnmor wrote:
Way back when I started driving, Chrysler products and some others used left hand threads on the left side. It actually was a good idea as there was some benefit. It was great fun watching the inexperienced twist off the studs.
I don't think there was any real benefit, that's why they don't do it anymore. How could there be any effect on the studs by the wheel turning on the axle?
Howard and Peggy

"Don't Panic"

Lynnmor
Explorer
Explorer
fj12ryder wrote:
j-d wrote:
...
Which side of the trailer is this happening on? Now that pretty much everybody now uses right hand threads on both sides, the Left/Driver side poses a problem since driving forwards tends to loosen right hand threads on the left side of a vehicle.
...
What? Seriously? Joke, right?


Way back when I started driving, Chrysler products and some others used left hand threads on the left side. It actually was a good idea as there was some benefit. It was great fun watching the inexperienced twist off the studs.