WD dilemma. Cat scale weights.

[lawrosa]

I wanted to get better actual weights again with the silverado 1500. I have been running on the 9th chain but I recently installed the sumo springs.

Sing I have really no sag anymore I was concerned.

I did all these at the scales today.


Truck
Truck trailer WD en-gauged
Truck trailer wd dis en-gauged

Me 200 lbs in the truck

Shows a 740 lb TW @ 14%

This is 9th chain

Front axle stock ride. 3300 lbs
WD front axle 3160 lbs.

Almost restored front. I have 8 washers and thats the max I can go I assume.


http://towingplanner.com/ActualWeights/TravelTrailerCatScales/?w1sa=3160&w1da=3100&w1ta=4680&w2sa=30...

This is what the bars look like 9th chain






OK so on my way out I said lets do chain 8th links and see what happens.

Well bars aiming up, but I restored the front to exactly 3300 lbs

So I moved 140lbs more to the front
And 20 lbs to the trailer.

I still have 14% TW @ 740 lbs?? Strange?

This link

http://towingplanner.com/ActualWeights/TravelTrailerCatScales/?w1sa=3300&w1da=2880&w1ta=4680&w2sa=30...

and heres the bars.





What would you do?

Also note: The back of bed was empty. I will be having a gen in there, some crates, and a solar panal at times. Maybe 200lbs

And max 3 other people . mabey 400 lbs

Also note my RAWR is 3750

With 8th link this gives me 870 lbs left to add to rear axle


FAWR 3925

on 8th link this gives me 625lbs left to add to front axle

[gmw_photos]

Mike, I can't comment on the specifics of what your Silverado likes, but my experience with the Frontier is that is drives best with the steer axle restored to 100%.
Nissan specs to "set the WD so the front returns to between at least 1/2 the measured rise ( using a ruler ), to getting it back to normal unladen height". So I'm reading that as at least 50% and up to 100% of the weight. I use the CAT scales to ensure I'm at 100% FALR.

Regarding your comment about the rear of the truck "hitting hard" on the sumo, I think you are right they are in effect not allowing the leaf springs to "work". When my sumo's were too tall, my Frontier was like that. In other words it was as though the only spring support I had back there was coming from the sumo. I suspect that was not literally the case, but it sure felt like it. Cutting one bubble off the top of them resulted in there being just a slight air gap between their top and the truck frame while unloaded, so they are just barely starting to compress with the trailer on. This seems to be the best compromise for my set-up.

Before cutting the sumo's, they were tall enough the back of the truck was about one inch higher in the back than it had been, so I knew right away they were too tall. Unladen ride was "firm to the point of being too harsh".

I was of course leery of chopping them up, knowing that if it didn't work, I could not return them to get the money back, but decided, nothing ventured, nothing gained eh ? I had an email conversation with them afterwards, and they advised that yes cutting them was an acceptable way to fine tune them for my application.

I may also try a set of heavier weight bars for the Blue Ox when hauling the horse trailer. It's about 1000 pounds heavier overall vs the funfinder travel trailer. I'm always thinking that set-up can be improved....LOL, not always successful though !

FYI, I also have added a Helwig anti-roll bar back there and use Bil5100's. Highly recco both those.

Best of luck in your set up.

[lawrosa]

BTW, I had to modify ( void the warranty ! ) on the sumo springs by literally sawing "one bubble" off the top of them. They were simply too tall the way they were. They are now correct for this truck and actually I prefer the way it rides and handles even empty with them under there.

LOL man!!! I was thinking the same think. just one donut off them may be better, but Im not sure how the progressive works with them.I really need to tow more with it to see.

I know on the 8th chain was too tight because when I hit bumps it hit hard ( The truck ).Like too much force on it.I managed to get one more washer in there. 1/8 inch maybe.The trouble why I cant fit more washers is the head only tilts back so far. One bolt hole is non adjustable, the other is slotted. I think the issue with the GM trucks are to torsion bar suspension. I dont think you can really get the nose down without great force.

I think Ill try the 9th link again with the new washer, take it for a spin, then remove the sumo springs ( they only unscrew) and take it down the same road.Ill let you all know in a few days.

As a side not that I already stated I think is I ran to florida fully loaded. we were 3 weeks on the road 4 days disney and a leisurly drive home.The truck did well and was a very smooth. I assume because the leafs were doing thier job at the compressed state they were in. I never bottomed out, or hit the facyory bump stops.

I am beginning to think the whole add a leaf, sumo springs, timberlin advertisements are a farce. I say this becuase I thing now the sumos are not allowing the leafs to compress. This I think ( I dont know yet) is making the truck ping pong off the sumos.My theory is if the sumos are removde the spring pack can do what it was intended to do.

Truck payload full tank and me in the truck 1470 per cat scale

I have to remember too I had my wife a 17 yr old and a nine year old in the truck. 400
34 gallons of fuel ( included above)
a generator at the tail gate end. 70 lbs
a residential solar panel 40 lbs
4 milk crates sewer hose,car fluids,water hoses, jack-stands, 150lbs
air compressor 40 lbs
two scooters ( kids kickers) 20 lbs
2 gallons gas 15 lbs


Add that to a 740 lbs TW. ( probably more with camper loaded for travel)

720 + 740 = 1460

My saving grace may be the 6 gallon water heater at rear and my 3 cases of water in rear trailer under bunks maybe lightened the TW.
Also as we traveled the black tank is dead rear of trailer. As it filled im sure my TW got lighter.FW tanks is is right on first tandem wheel on trailer. maybe a tad forward. only keep 10 gallons in there.Also 34 gallons fuel goes quick. 5 hours I was looking for gas @ 9 MPG


Moral of story?

I bought a travel trailer thinking ill keep the weight low and get something not too big. This coachmen off the lot was 4700 lbs with a TW of 600lbs

As it sits now with my **** in it and another battery its 5300 lbs per cat scale and TW 740. ( I cant believe there is 600 lbs of stuff in the camper...)The only thing we add to the trailer for camping is 3 bins of clothes under the bed.
Food in the fridge and cabinets. Fridge behind axles and food storage on axles.

OK ill stop rambling but people with 1500s or 150's thinking they will tow to what the book says are in for a rude awakening. I stayed way under and look at me.And the SUVs are even worse I would think...

Next trailer will be a small couples one and even those are heavy. If the kids want to come they can sleep on the floor....lol.
I wish I could of afforded a 2500 or 250. Ill let you know how it goes.

Oh the P tires did well. No heat build up to Florida. Derated they are 2300 lbs at 35 psi. I kept 42 psi in them.When these wear out im going LT tires. Probably the uniroyal Laredo tour as they are cheap and thats what I can afford.

[gmw_photos]

I had my Frontier and Funfinder set up perfect with my Blue Ox. FALR was 100%, rear sag was acceptable.

Then I added sumo springs because I am also towing my horse trailer fairly often, and was not happy with the sag. After adding the sumo springs, I had to start all over from the beginning with the Funfinder travel trailer. Since I no had almost no sag, the hitch head had to be raised one hole in the drawbar, the head had to be tilted further back, and then fine tune it all with choosing the right link to pick up on the chains. It took several passes over the CAT scale to get it right, but now I have settings for both trailers that work well and get the steer axle weight correctly restored.

BTW, I had to modify ( void the warranty ! ) on the sumo springs by literally sawing "one bubble" off the top of them. They were simply too tall the way they were. They are now correct for this truck and actually I prefer the way it rides and handles even empty with them under there.

[lawrosa]

I replaced reciever already. I know about the gm one..

I went overkill because it was the same price as a lower rated one.

[hawkeye-08]

I agree with BarneyS, it appears your receiver is twisting up. I solved that on my truck with Torklift 30k Super magnum (overkill, but wanted the flexing to stop). I have a double stinger and no flex.

I towed with flexing receiver on previous tow vehicle and then on current truck. I decided since we were planning on keeping truck for a long time to invest in a rock solid receiver. I enjoy towing now with the setup all dialed in.

I'm not saying you need to change your receiver, more of letting you know that twisting receiver can impact your towing experience.

[lawrosa]

The thing with 8th link is it feels too tight. From 9th link to 8th link it only transfered to the front axle more.

The 9th and 8th link has same transfer to trailer, basically 120 lbs.

on the 8th link it actually makes the trailer 20 lbs lighter.

I get no sway. I was just trying to get the back of the truck up with less sag.

I ran 2500 miles from NJ to florida and back fully loaded on the 9th link.

Leaf pack did its job but I was thinking I needed something more. I probably should leave well enough alone.

Im going to take the head apart and fit as many washers as I can in there. I am using 4 thinner washers now, on top of the factory thicker washers. ( I could not find a source for the factory ones. Ill take a ride to the homestore.)

I may take the sumo springs out as they may be detrimental and not allowing the leaf pack to do its job.

So if I can get a bit of tilt out with added washers I should gain some lbs on the front on the 9th link.

So truck is 3300 front.
9th link now brings it to 3160.

[ScottG]

I think it all looks pretty good. I would tow with it and see how it handles.
I'll get flak for this but dont care; Run it up to 75 mph for a SHORT period of time and see if you feel any sway. Maybe even change lanes. If no sway then your probably good to go because if it has any such tendancy, it will show up more at higher speeds.

[wrgrs50s]

I agree with MitchF150. It's more about a comfortable tow than the numbers.

[BarneyS]

If you have room to put on another washer and the bolt hole for the large top bolt will allow the movement then go ahead and put in another washer. If not that then I suspect the only solution is stronger bars. Can't tell from the picture but you may be getting receiver wind up which means the receiver is twisting, or even possibly the shank is moving upwards slightly because of sloppy fit, which will reduce the amount of lift the bars can provide at any given chain link.

By the way, you can run with the bars on the 8th link and the bars slanted up just fine as long as the chains don't hit anything or pull the snap-up brackets during turns. I doubt that will happen since you have 8 links under tension which will allow plenty of movement. I would continue just as it is for now and see how it does.
Barney

[MitchF150]

To me, it's more of how comfortable of a tow it is at whatever setting you have it set at.

Not what the scale says.. Sure, the scale weights tell you where you are at, weight wise, and a good thing to know, but when it comes down to it in the end, I just want a comfortable tow..

I played with the number of links on my rig the first year I towed the trailer.. This was back in 2002.. I got it dialed in to where I liked it near the end of 2003..

I did my adjustments with measurements more than weight.. Then I took it out and found what worked best actually towing it.

I settled on 3 links 'hanging', but I only have 9 links total..

This is my old truck, but even with the 13, I have it setup the same and it tows great.

Good luck!

Mitch

[lawrosa]

This is why I put the sumo's on. had this sag going to Florida.

But had I known I could do the 8th link I would of ran to florida with it on 8th link

This is fully loaded camper, 4 people, camper loaded.

[lawrosa]

What can I do with the hitch/WD to get the bars straight and transfer more weight like I did with the 8th link?

Thinking about it there is probably nothing I can do but get bigger bars maybe?

These are 1000lbs bars now.

But tilting head back more I think would help, but I have 8 washers already.

maybe remove the sumo springs?