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Installed Vortex II fan today

philh
Explorer II
Explorer II
Installed Vortex II fan in the bathroom today. I did receive instructions... they weren't very good. Mostly useless. It also came with the rotary power knob electrical box not installed. Simple snap that is tough to get lined up and snapped together, but I finally got it.
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Instructions didn't tell me if the black or white wire is positive. I guessed correctly, it was black for me.
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Had to adjust the crank knob position and when you do, you have to use a spacer... what a silly design that is. I needed a third hand for both the installation and hooking the wire up, and didn't have one.
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On high, it is louder than the stock unit, not a lot, but it is noticeable. Medium about the same level, low is quieter. But ****, does this thing move a LOT of air. For that reason alone, it was worth the cost and installation.
17 REPLIES 17

gmckenzie
Explorer
Explorer
seaeagle2 wrote:
I just did the Vortex update, I went with a single speed and got a reversible PWM off of ebay. Our trailer has tall ceilings and my wife couldn't reach the fan switch so I ran the wiring down the wall in some wiremold and mounted the switches on the wall. Now I have an infinitely adjustable reversible fan. Is is louder than a fantastic fan, yes, but it mounts from the inside and it was less expensive.


I need to do the PWM thing.

We keep a broom in the bathroom (just because it's a good place to store it) so if I need to turn the fan on while siting, I reach up with the broom handle.
2015 GMC Sierra 4x4 CC SB Max Trailer
2010 Cougar 30RKS

seaeagle2
Explorer
Explorer
I just did the Vortex update, I went with a single speed and got a reversible PWM off of ebay. Our trailer has tall ceilings and my wife couldn't reach the fan switch so I ran the wiring down the wall in some wiremold and mounted the switches on the wall. Now I have an infinitely adjustable reversible fan. Is is louder than a fantastic fan, yes, but it mounts from the inside and it was less expensive.
2014 F 250 Gasser
2019 Outdoors RV 21RD
"one life, don't blow it", Kona Brewing
"If people concentrated on the really important things in life there'd be a shortage of fishing poles" Doug Larson

TurnThePage
Explorer
Explorer
I hope to someday have time to enjoy my RV like this! ๐Ÿ™‚
2015 Ram 1500
2022 Grand Design Imagine XLS 22RBE

Blacklane
Explorer
Explorer
Update: I just got my hands on a new Vortex II fan, and this problem no longer exists. Here is a picture of the new circuit board with the resistors properly mounted against the board:



Unfortunately, they still use wire nuts with electrical tape (which is not holding well already), but those can be easily replaced with crimp connectors, which are far more reliable in a vibrational environment.

Blacklane
Explorer
Explorer
Lynnmor wrote:

Putting silicon under resisters might be a bad idea, as they produce heat.


That seems like a valid point. I assumed that since silicone can handle temperatures above about 500F that there would be no problems, but lets investigate further.

So I took the fan out and measured it.

The measured currents in the forward mode were:
0.48 amps (low)
0.64 amps (med)
0.99 amps (high)

There are three 5-ohm, 20 watt resistors (each measure about 5.5 ohms). The forward mode uses zero, one, or two resistors. The reverse mode uses zero or one resistor.

For the low-speed case, we have 0.48A through two 5.5-ohm resistors, so the power in each resistor is:

(5.5)*(0.48)^2 = 1.27 watts each

For the medium speed case, we have:

(5.5)*(0.64)^2 = 2.25 watts

So our worst case for heat in the resistors is the medium speed case of 2.25W. We also know that this is far below the 20W rating of the resistors.

For the thermal analysis I ran the fan for about an hour at medium speed and used a thermal camera to record the temperature of the hottest resistor. This was done at an ambient temperature of 60F (black color) and the hottest temperature recorded was 113F (white color). This is about 53 degrees above the ambient temperature.




This was repeated for the low-speed case where two resistors are used in series. Here the hottest temperature was 86F.



For completeness, the test was run on medium speed in the reverse direction to measure the temperature of the third resistor. It got to 111F, similar to the forward medium-speed case.



The maximum temperature for one-part silicone adhesive (room temperature cure) is 572F. This is the only thing actually touching the resistors. Ceramic resistors have a max operating temperature of around 250C (480F). Solder melts at about 190C (375F). The Standard glass-epoxy (FR-4) circuit boards have a service temperature up to about 110C (230F). The fan housing seems to be made of ABS plastic, which melts at around 105C (221F).

If we adjust the ambient temperature from 60F to 110F and add the increase in temperature of the resistor, we end up at 163F. This is far below the damage temperature of anything in the vicinity. In fact, it's not much hotter than domestic hot water.

So we can conclude that there is not a thermal issue with under-filling the resistors with silicone.

BarabooBob
Explorer III
Explorer III
I installed a Vortex II last summer and I love it. We never use the high speed because it is loud but with the amount of air the fan moves on medium, I think high would suck the toilet paper off of the roll. I picked mine up for about $35 on ebay from an RV overstock company.
Bob & Dawn Married 34 years
2017 Viking 17RD
2011 Ford F150 3.5L Ecoboost 420 lb/ft
Retired

Lynnmor
Explorer
Explorer
Blacklane wrote:
I installed a Vortex II, but I had heard about reliability problems. By inspecting the circuit board, it was obvious that the big, heavy resistors could never hold-up in a high-vibration and shock environment of an RV. So I under-filled the resistors with silicon to support them better. This is actually a pretty common practice in electronics; I don't know why Vortex doesn't do it. It's been 5 seasons with no problems yet.

I tried a PWM speed controller on my old single-speed Vortex, but noticed that it had a lot of parasitic current draw, even when turned off. The one I used also made an objectionable high-pitch noise when it was on. I decided not to use it. Instead, I installed it in my stove vent fan circuit downstream of the switch, and I love it there.



Putting silicon under resisters might be a bad idea, as they produce heat.

The first PWM that I tried did cause noise so I bought a different model. There is no parasitic draw because there is an on-off switch, turning it down till the motor stops is not the correct usage.

philh
Explorer II
Explorer II
Now you tell me!

Blacklane
Explorer
Explorer
I installed a Vortex II, but I had heard about reliability problems. By inspecting the circuit board, it was obvious that the big, heavy resistors could never hold-up in a high-vibration and shock environment of an RV. So I under-filled the resistors with silicon to support them better. This is actually a pretty common practice in electronics; I don't know why Vortex doesn't do it. It's been 5 seasons with no problems yet.

I tried a PWM speed controller on my old single-speed Vortex, but noticed that it had a lot of parasitic current draw, even when turned off. The one I used also made an objectionable high-pitch noise when it was on. I decided not to use it. Instead, I installed it in my stove vent fan circuit downstream of the switch, and I love it there.


Click For Full-Size Image.

jfkmk
Explorer
Explorer
philh wrote:
jfkmk wrote:
Philh, black should always be positive and white negative. Although I guess they should have specified that in the instructions.


I like red positive, black negative in DC wiring ๐Ÿ™‚

House wiring for this circuit, green is positive, white is negative. In another circuit w/green was positive. I'll continue to be surprised!

Thank goodness we always have choices, huh?:)

Glad the install went well.

philh
Explorer II
Explorer II
jfkmk wrote:
Philh, black should always be positive and white negative. Although I guess they should have specified that in the instructions.


I like red positive, black negative in DC wiring ๐Ÿ™‚

House wiring for this circuit, green is positive, white is negative. In another circuit w/green was positive. I'll continue to be surprised!

philh
Explorer II
Explorer II
GordonThree wrote:
I've got one sitting in a box, I'm waiting for the courage to break the seal on my roof vent to swap out the factory vent. I put a Vortex III in the bathroom, it was an easy retrofit, fit into the existing frame. Wanted the larger diameter blade of the II for my kitchen area.

Did you install a vent cover over it?


Bathroom already had a vent fan. This is a replacement utilizing the existing frame.

If you're asking did I put a big rain cover over the vent and cover, yes I had previously done that.

Lynnmor
Explorer
Explorer
The multiple speed fans use resistors to select the speed. I bought the single speed fans and used a PWM and reversing switch so that there is variable speed forward and reverse. Doing it this way, it is quieter, more efficient and cost about the same or less.

jfkmk
Explorer
Explorer
Had one (not a variable speed) in the bathroom of my old tt. I found it easy to install and it moved a LOT of air, although it was a bit noisy. I liked that it was retrofit and went into my existing vent.

Philh, black should always be positive and white negative. Although I guess they should have specified that in the instructions.