Propane Cylinder Fill: Error?

[Davidlee64]

I recently took my 2 outdated 30# propane cylinders to exchange for current inspected and filled ones. I recently went to switch out one of the in use cylinders that showed empty. I pulled the empty, and put in the filled one. I hooked the pigtail to it and went to slowly turn it on. WTH! The valve was already open! I checked the other cylinder and found that one was open as well. Is this some kind of new way to exchange or fill cylinders that I am not aware of? I understand OPD valves should not release any propane unless there is something attached to it, but isn't that carrying it a bit too far? When I go to service company to refill, they don't leave them open. The exchange place is a different company.

[Old-Biscuit]

DReisinger wrote:
So, If you order a beer and it is 80% full should you be happy with that

If I order a pint, pay for a pint and it comes in a quart glass ....yeah I'm happy.

80% liquid level is FULL and all you are paying for. A FULL cylinder.
See any more then vapor zone would be limited, relief valve would be IN liquid propane and Liquid Propane would flow out into the LP Regulator.....none of which is good.

SO yeah---I'm happy my propane is properly filled to the FULL 80% capacity as designed.

[red31]

Old-Biscuit wrote:

This is not rocket science.....

Hand it over, they set the scale and fill it, they closed the valves and hand it back, ya pays the money.

Then ya leave the state, hand it over, spew propane, close valves, hand it back, pays the money.

Simple.

Sometime they don't close all the valves! (to get back to the OP)

[DReisinger]

So, If you order a beer and it is 80% full should you be happy with that

[Old-Biscuit]

OPD Floats are set at 80% liquid propane level

Liquid Level Gauge (stand pipe)is set at 80% liquid propane level

80% Liquid Propane Level is FULL


This is not rocket science.....

[red31]

Collar WC is weight, max fill by weight is 42% of WC.
'Table 4-4.2.1 Maximum Permitted Filling Limit (percent of marked water capacity in pounds)'

80% of WC volume. DT length predetermined.
'Table 4-4.2.2(a) Maximum Permitted Liquid Volume (percent of total water capacity): Aboveground Containers 0 to 1200 Gal (0 to 4.5 m3)'
fixed maximum liquid level gauge is based on 40F (See 4-4.3.3(a))

20lbs = 80% @ 40F and based on the volumetric filling chart, this is 95% of container volume @ 130F, weight stays the same.

1-6 Definitions, Glossary of Terms, and Abbreviations.
'Water Capacity. The amount of water, in either pounds or
gallons, at 60°F (15.6°C) required to fill a container liquid full
of water'

[beemerphile1]

Old-Biscuit wrote:
Filled cylinder is 80% of total capacity regardless....

This statement is incorrect because it is only a partial statement.

The bottle is full at 80 percent WC (water capacity). I doubt WC and LP has the exact same properties.

[Old-Biscuit]

WHY do you think that ASME Tanks AND DOT Portable Cylinders have a 'Fixed Liquid Level Gauge' (ie: Bleeder valve) :H



So when filling the attendant will KNOW when vessel is FULL (80%)

[red31]

NFPA 58 various version adopted by all states but Arkansas, some states adopt and modify.

4-4.3.2 The volumetric method shall be permitted to be used
for the following containers if designed and equipped for filling
by volume:
(a) Cylinders of less than 200 lb (91 kg) water capacity that
are not subject to DOT jurisdiction (such as, but not limited
to, engine fuel cylinders on vehicles not in interstate
commerce or cylinders filled at the installation)

here is a rather old version
https://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/aboutthecodes/58/58-98-pdf.pdf

[SaltiDawg]

Dutch_12078 wrote:
...
Try starting at page 28 of the Propane Education & Research Council's "Dispensing Propane Safely
Training Manual". Both methods are covered...

Oh, and the official name of the "bleeder valve", is the "Fixed Maximum Liquid Level Gauge".

Thus the quotes from the erroneous post.

Page 26 "Cylinders less than 200 lb. WC and subject to DOT jurisdiction must be filled by weight. Be sure to check with your supervisor for any exceptions."

But thanks anyway, sarcasm not withstanding. lol

[Dutch_12078]

SaltiDawg wrote:

Old-Biscuit wrote:

Tare Weight....weight of cylinder PLUS the propane
PLUS bleeder valve which is a FIXED Level
Both methods are 'proper'

May I ask exactly where that is stated? Specifically that one can fill based on level as determined by a "bleeder valve".

Try starting at page 28 of the Propane Education & Research Council's "Dispensing Propane Safely
Training Manual". Both methods are covered...

Oh, and the official name of the "bleeder valve", is the "Fixed Maximum Liquid Level Gauge".

[SaltiDawg]

Old-Biscuit wrote:

Tare Weight....weight of cylinder PLUS the propane
PLUS bleeder valve which is a FIXED Level
Both methods are 'proper'

May I ask exactly where that is stated? Specifically that one can fill based on level as determined by a "bleeder valve".

[Old-Biscuit]

SaltiDawg wrote:

Old-Biscuit wrote:
...

Prior to OPD the 'liquid level bleeder valve' should have been cracked open venting vapor while filling with liquid propane.
When vapor changed to liquid the filling was stopped. bleeder valve closed caused it was FULL (80%). ...

I do not believe that this is correct at all.

The proper way to "fill" has been by Net Weight. This has been true for decades. (20# on a "20 Pound Cylinder."

Tare Weight....weight of cylinder PLUS the propane
PLUS bleeder valve which is a FIXED Level
Both methods are 'proper'

[red31]

SaltiDawg wrote:

I do not believe that this is correct at all.

The proper way to "fill" has been by Net Weight. This has been true for decades. (20# on a "20 Pound Cylinder."

Filling by volume is allowed for DOT cylinders that are not under DOT jurisdiction (commerce), unless the state has adopted other rules, like the state of TX where DOT containers of less than 101 pounds LP-gas capacity, other than containers designed to be used on forklift or industrial trucks, shall be filled by weight only.

20 lbs can be more or less than 80% depending on temperature.

[SaltiDawg]

Old-Biscuit wrote:
...

Prior to OPD the 'liquid level bleeder valve' should have been cracked open venting vapor while filling with liquid propane.
When vapor changed to liquid the filling was stopped. bleeder valve closed caused it was FULL (80%). ...

I do not believe that this is correct at all.

The proper way to "fill" has been by Net Weight. This has been true for decades. (20# on a "20 Pound Cylinder."