Should I Balance My New Tires?

[2112]

I plan on installing new tires on my FW this weekend. Should I have them balanced?

Thanks

[jplante4]

Didn't I already close this????

CLOSED

[Grit_dog]

^youre right. Since your drums aren’t balanced, no sense in balancing the wheels.....
Next thread, this ones on life support.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

Grit dog wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:

wilber1 wrote:
How do you know it isn't balanced? Even if it isn't, why would you add to your problems by adding another unbalanced component that could exaggerate any imbalance? There is more mass and a lot longer arm (radius) to a wheel and tire than a drum. The outside surface of a 235/80R16 ST tire is traveling over 2.5 times faster than the outside surface of a 12" drum.

And probably 2 or 3 times as much mass moving out there too.

You'll have trouble explaining the physics of that to some....as evidenced by some of the posts in this thread.

Is it 10x or 2 or 3x's?

Since we are all guessing I say it's 1.10000003492 x's.

[Grit_dog]

fj12ryder wrote:

wilber1 wrote:
How do you know it isn't balanced? Even if it isn't, why would you add to your problems by adding another unbalanced component that could exaggerate any imbalance? There is more mass and a lot longer arm (radius) to a wheel and tire than a drum. The outside surface of a 235/80R16 ST tire is traveling over 2.5 times faster than the outside surface of a 12" drum.

And probably 2 or 3 times as much mass moving out there too.

You'll have trouble explaining the physics of that to some....as evidenced by some of the posts in this thread.

[wilber1]

fj12ryder wrote:

wilber1 wrote:
How do you know it isn't balanced? Even if it isn't, why would you add to your problems by adding another unbalanced component that could exaggerate any imbalance? There is more mass and a lot longer arm (radius) to a wheel and tire than a drum. The outside surface of a 235/80R16 ST tire is traveling over 2.5 times faster than the outside surface of a 12" drum.

And probably 2 or 3 times as much mass moving out there too.

Drums are heavy but kinetic energy increases as the square of speed. A 2 oz imbalance at the surface of a 31 inch diameter wheel will have the same effect as a 12.5 oz imbalance on the surface of a 12 inch drum. When you balance a wheel and tire, you are balancing the whole assembly regardless of where you put the weight.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

Because none of my trailer drums have balancing weights on them. NONE.

If your drums are balanced show a picture of them with the balancing weight welded on them.

[fj12ryder]

wilber1 wrote:
How do you know it isn't balanced? Even if it isn't, why would you add to your problems by adding another unbalanced component that could exaggerate any imbalance? There is more mass and a lot longer arm (radius) to a wheel and tire than a drum. The outside surface of a 235/80R16 ST tire is traveling over 2.5 times faster than the outside surface of a 12" drum.

And probably 2 or 3 times as much mass moving out there too.

[wilber1]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

wilber1 wrote:

LarryJM wrote:

wilber1 wrote:
If your TV will shake and vibrate from an unbalanced wheel, why would anyone think a trailer won't? Yes, back in the olden days when most cars had all drum brakes and solid rear axles, it was necessary to balance the wheels.

The tires on a TV especially the front are worlds different than a trailer. Just from the nature of the design with all the ball joints, bearings necessary for steering along with the entire steering mechanism which you actually hold onto via the steering wheel amplifies any NVH issues from out of balanced tire/wheel assemblies over a trailer that is a fixed rotating assembly with only a pair of bearings on the spindle.

It amazes me that anyone would even attempt to compare these two worlds apart situations .... they're not even in the apple and oranges category, but more in the grapes and watermellon realm.

Larry

It may not be as critical as in a steering system but do you not balance the rear wheels on your vehicles? A rotating mass that is out of balance will shake. It doesn't matter what it is. Just because you can't feel it in your TV doesn't mean it isn't there.

Why balance the tires/wheels if the rest of the assembly is not balanced?

How do you know it isn't balanced? Even if it isn't, why would you add to your problems by adding another unbalanced component that could exaggerate any imbalance? There is more mass and a lot longer arm (radius) to a wheel and tire than a drum. The outside surface of a 235/80R16 ST tire is traveling over 2.5 times faster than the outside surface of a 12" drum.

[Lynnmor]

Grit dog wrote:
^What on earth are you talking about? The rest of the "assembly." Like brake rotors?
Some are, some aren't. I've seen drums back in the old days that had balance weights on them and drilled rotors, but it's all about inertia. A brake rotor has only a very small fraction of the amount of inertia that a tire/wheel assembly has. I.E. A brake rotor could be 10x (for example) as out of balance as a tire before it has the same effect.

A trailer brake drum is only a couple of inches smaller than the typical location of wheel weights. Your 10x is nonsense. I have added more than 5 oz. of weight to the wheel to counter the effect of an unbalanced brake drum. Unless and until you check the balance of your brake drums, any discussion is just noise. You might get lucky and find that your drums are only out by an ounce or two. I balance the entire rotating assembly which includes the tire, wheel and hub/drum.

[2112]

I'll have to develop a Xmas tree shake indicator. I like the idea of using a baby monitor as a rear view camera.

[LarryJM]

wilber1 wrote:

LarryJM wrote:

wilber1 wrote:
If your TV will shake and vibrate from an unbalanced wheel, why would anyone think a trailer won't? Yes, back in the olden days when most cars had all drum brakes and solid rear axles, it was necessary to balance the wheels.

The tires on a TV especially the front are worlds different than a trailer. Just from the nature of the design with all the ball joints, bearings necessary for steering along with the entire steering mechanism which you actually hold onto via the steering wheel amplifies any NVH issues from out of balanced tire/wheel assemblies over a trailer that is a fixed rotating assembly with only a pair of bearings on the spindle.

It amazes me that anyone would even attempt to compare these two worlds apart situations .... they're not even in the apple and oranges category, but more in the grapes and watermellon realm.

Larry

It may not be as critical as in a steering system but do you not balance the rear wheels on your vehicles? A rotating mass that is out of balance will shake. It doesn't matter what it is. Just because you can't feel it in your TV doesn't mean it isn't there.

You don't really balance the rear wheels on purpose, but because they normally will end up on the front due to normal tire rotation. DIY tire rotaters (word???) do not typically re-balance their tires when they rotate them so just as a matter of routine every tire you put on a POV is balanced.

Again it's amazing how folks want to try and take what someone says so far off into the weeds. I'm not touting the "virtue" of NOT BALANCING a trailer tire, but am just pointing out the MINIMAL real positive side to doing so and I'm only trying to share my almost 40 years and countless trailer tires and probably close to 150K+ miles of towing with unbalanced tires w/o any actual downsides unless you consider saving several hundred $$$ over that time a downside. Balancing a trailer tire likewise has no downside, but I question if it even has a real upside to it overall.

Likewise I have seen several "red herring" declarations about this shaking and bouncing, but absolutely no real evidence to support those claims, but my experiences with my camera and "Xmas" tree "shake indicator" has demonstrated to my satisfaction just the opposite is closer to the truth.

Larry

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

What I'm talking about is brake drums that are not balanced. I have yet to see one on a trailer that is balanced. And yes, brake drums are VERY heavy.

[Grit_dog]

^What on earth are you talking about? The rest of the "assembly." Like brake rotors?
Some are, some aren't. I've seen drums back in the old days that had balance weights on them and drilled rotors, but it's all about inertia. A brake rotor has only a very small fraction of the amount of inertia that a tire/wheel assembly has. I.E. A brake rotor could be 10x (for example) as out of balance as a tire before it has the same effect.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

wilber1 wrote:

LarryJM wrote:

wilber1 wrote:
If your TV will shake and vibrate from an unbalanced wheel, why would anyone think a trailer won't? Yes, back in the olden days when most cars had all drum brakes and solid rear axles, it was necessary to balance the wheels.

The tires on a TV especially the front are worlds different than a trailer. Just from the nature of the design with all the ball joints, bearings necessary for steering along with the entire steering mechanism which you actually hold onto via the steering wheel amplifies any NVH issues from out of balanced tire/wheel assemblies over a trailer that is a fixed rotating assembly with only a pair of bearings on the spindle.

It amazes me that anyone would even attempt to compare these two worlds apart situations .... they're not even in the apple and oranges category, but more in the grapes and watermellon realm.

Larry

It may not be as critical as in a steering system but do you not balance the rear wheels on your vehicles? A rotating mass that is out of balance will shake. It doesn't matter what it is. Just because you can't feel it in your TV doesn't mean it isn't there.

Why balance the tires/wheels if the rest of the assembly is not balanced?