Towing mileage/capability

[Bluedeacon]

First, I did see a 'what are you towing with?' post. Be darned if I can find it. I'm happy to read suggested posts if you point me to them.

We have a 2021 Wolfpup 16fq, 3200 lbs, nearly 12' high if you include the AC; figure 4000 max with us and fuel and gear.

Right now I'm towing with a 2003 Yukon, but in a year or two we'd like to get something better - better mileage the priority, but failing that, capability and/or comfort, as well as lower to the ground if possible, as my wife has problems climbing into high trucks. So I'd like to hear from people with experience relative to our trailer, if possible.

I work on my own so older vehicles are worth considering, too. My experience is, rated towing does not always align with capability, and while I've found 4wd is helpful at times at county sites, I wonder if front wheel drive - like the Flex (4500lb tow) or the Traverse (5500lb tow) are up to the task.

Our experiences:

My Dakota supposedly had a 5500 lb rating (3.57 ratio and 135k on the V6) ; I had upgraded brakes in anticipation of towing since it had the towing capacity. It manhandled the trailer fine and actually brakes better without trailer brakes (yet) than either of the GM full size. However while mileage here in the rolling hills of eastern Iowa was 14, it wanted to spend most of its time in second gear which made me a bit nervous. I suspect a V8 one would be fine. Very comfortable on long trips.

We bought a 2001 Silverado Z71 with the 5.3 V8, 4.10 gears, trailer package but while replacing the brake lines found a cracked frame covered up with undercoat and the rear axle leaked Iike a sieve; we replace it with the Yukon (340k) also with the 5.3 and 3.73 gears. The Silverado towed well, rarely went out of overdrive, and got 14/21 not towing, 12 to 14 towing, and climbed those steep hills along the Mississppi. By contrast, the Yukon will only tow in third and wants to shift liberally to second; mileage at best is 10/17 not towing and 8 towing, on the same roads as the Silverado; it struggles on steep hills. Both of these newer trucks kill my back. Actually the '95 Silverado K1500HD (trailer package and 350, extended cab long box) towed and got better mileage than this Yukon does with the '71 Holiday Rambler Vacationer we had some years back. That truck was much easier to work on, too.

So what are other's experiences with towing trailers around this size? Are there better choices without spending a huge amount?

Thanks, Bruce

[valhalla360]

Bluedeacon wrote:
The trailer is 10'6" PLUS over a foot for the AC, so I count 12' for overpasses. It's 3200lbs. loaded; our stuff weighs 80 or so lbs, the groceries about 20, 150 lbs for a full gas tank, about 500 lbs for the two of us. Cat scale at Kwik Star said 3986 when truck weight was deducted. That's how I figure 4000 as an average.

From what I've read, newer trucks - even small ones - get better mpg not towing but same towing. I'm just open to possibilities. Blazers might tow nice, but can they stop? The '99 Dakota V6 might have managed with lower gearing, the '92 extended Dakota SLT with the Shelby 318 towed a 4500 lb rig for a coworker, but after I bought it I found a year in the frame was rusting through just behind the front suspension - a shame, nice truck otherwise. I'm just looking to see if there's better choices before I need to locate or overhaul a new vehicle. I'm not opposed to an old sedan or wagon but the height may be an issue.

The brochure height includes the air/con.

True, the newer trucks don't get significantly different MPG while towing.

For towing, I want a body on frame rear wheel drive. If you flat land tow for minimal miles per year, you can get away with a light duty SUV but it's far from ideal.

[Lwiddis]

You missed the weight of fresh water.

[jdc1]

My daughter uses her Subaru Ascent to tow her 22', 3,500 pound (before loading) trailer. Doesn't even need weight distribution or sway control. She drove all over the western USA during the heart of the pandemic, home-schooling the grand-twins along the way. Those little 4 banger turbo's put out some great torque and get great mpg. Drop down that 3 row seat for the Labrador retriever, and off they went.

[Grit_dog]

You’re all over the board…from a new fwd car to an old station wagon and several completely different vehicles in between.
No one can give you much more meaningful advice unless you can hone in on a budget range and a type of vehicle you would prefer.
These “guess what I think I might want “ threads are just silly. Entertaining but silly…

[Bluedeacon]

Thanks guys. I did like my '95 but when the torque converter went, it took 3 weeks and over 500 pages to locate the correct one, rebuilt in Atlanta - 21 spline and 14", only 400 made. After I put it back together, the tc apparently took out the tranny despite what the tranny shop guy thought. Suzanne used a stool on a rope to get in and out of Big Blue. It's still in town, but in four years has had four owners and five trannys :(. Still my favorite outside of the Dakotas. Those with the 318 would handle it. Diesels are fine, I have driven and worked on school buses.

The trailer is 10'6" PLUS over a foot for the AC, so I count 12' for overpasses. It's 3200lbs. loaded; our stuff weighs 80 or so lbs, the groceries about 20, 150 lbs for a full gas tank, about 500 lbs for the two of us. Cat scale at Kwik Star said 3986 when truck weight was deducted. That's how I figure 4000 as an average.

From what I've read, newer trucks - even small ones - get better mpg not towing but same towing. I'm just open to possibilities. Blazers might tow nice, but can they stop? The '99 Dakota V6 might have managed with lower gearing, the '92 extended Dakota SLT with the Shelby 318 towed a 4500 lb rig for a coworker, but after I bought it I found a year in the frame was rusting through just behind the front suspension - a shame, nice truck otherwise. I'm just looking to see if there's better choices before I need to locate or overhaul a new vehicle. I'm not opposed to an old sedan or wagon but the height may be an issue.

[rexlion]

A 90s era dodge diesel pickup would tow better and give better mpg. That TT has too much frontal area for a Traverse or similar with v6, based on my experience with a Highlander.

[MitchF150]

...

[Grit_dog]

And I’ve never seen a 95 “1500HD”. I’d go as far as saying they don’t exist. While icbw, that designation and the corresponding heavier chassis with the 1500hd badging didn’t start until the gmt800 models.

[Grit_dog]

BenK wrote:
You are caught in the age old "half ton" quagmire thinking they are all the same

Mainly because of using marketing nomenclature. Better to use actual references...like their GVWR & RGAWR

That 95 GM 1500HD is a unicorn that is more 3/4 ton...and with extended cab +long bed...is several feet longer than the others, which is a key stability factor, but not the only

What comes with bigger GVWR/RGAWR are BIGGER brakes, transmission, etc

Why it towed the same trailer better than the others

Look for 6k or higher RGAWR & +8k GVWR and longer wheel base

Get it that you don't mind older and note that that these higher GVWR & RGAWR TVs has more margin. Therefore should have more left in them...unless previous beat the snoot out of them

Oh...also note that a 95 +8K GVWR (3/4ton) 6K RGAWR is the SAME axle as the 1 ton dually of that era. Diff are in the spring pack & rear brake shoe with/wheel cylinder borel

Cmon Ben. Admit that you didn’t even read the OPs post. You basically cut and pasted one of your responses from that guy who posted the one n done 12500lb towing thread.
How is this even remotely relevant to the OPs post with a 4klb trailer and his ACTUAL questions?
No need to reply. It’s not relevant in the least.

[rjstractor]

Bruce, in reading your post carefully it appears that you're looking for something that's easier for your wife to get into. That pretty much rules out another full size SUV or pickup. There's lots of guys on here who think you need a full size pickup to tow anything with wheels on it. Your weights you estimated are likely to be spot-on, your trailer's GVWR is a shade under 4000. Basically a smaller ultralight, certainly not needing a full size pickup. I used to tow a larger ultralight than yours with a Ford Aerostar, and it towed pretty well despite having much less power than today's vehicles.

I think the Ford Flex or similar mid size SUV you mentioned might work well if you're careful about what you pick. Forget about FWD, AWD is the way to go. You also need to make sure that whatever vehicle you pick has adequate payload, a factory tow package, and a receiver that can be used with a weight distribution hitch (not all can). Get one with a real transmission- not a CVT. Get the most powerful engine in whatever vehicle you pick- the 2.7 Ecoboost available in the Flex is also used in the F150 and would have the power to tow your trailer easily. Don't look for any improvement on towing mileage though, it's going to suck unless you use something that burns diesel. Then it will just suck less.

[theoldwizard1]

Bluedeacon wrote:

We have a 2021 Wolfpup 16fq, 3200 lbs, nearly 12' high if you include the AC; figure 4000 max with us and fuel and gear.

I think your estimate is low. Fully loaded I'll bet you are around 5,000.

Bluedeacon wrote:

I wonder if front wheel drive - like the Flex (4500lb tow) or the Traverse (5500lb tow) are up to the task.

Years ago, I had a bad experience towing with a FWD Taurus. I vowed to never tow with FWD again !

If you go with AWD for either of those vehicles, additional maintenance on the transmission and AWD unit I highly recommended.

The EcoBoost Flex can get thristy. Best way to save fuel is drive between 60-65.

[valhalla360]

Did you do a lift on the trailer? Specs say it's 10'6"...no where close to 12'.

Basically, you aren't likely to find significant difference in MPG...it takes fuel to make power and it takes power to drag a brick thru the air at high speed.

The best way to improve MPG is to slow down.

Are you set on an SUV? A rear wheel drive 1/2 ton pickup (properly spec'd, not just any) is a nice match for a 4 lb trailer. Plenty of them kicking around and if you get a 4door version, you can comfortably carry 4-6 people and likely will have some payload left for stuff in the truck bed.

[BenK]

You are caught in the age old "half ton" quagmire thinking they are all the same

Mainly because of using marketing nomenclature. Better to use actual references...like their GVWR & RGAWR

That 95 GM 1500HD is a unicorn that is more 3/4 ton...and with extended cab +long bed...is several feet longer than the others, which is a key stability factor, but not the only

What comes with bigger GVWR/RGAWR are BIGGER brakes, transmission, etc

Why it towed the same trailer better than the others

Look for 6k or higher RGAWR & +8k GVWR and longer wheel base

Get it that you don't mind older and note that that these higher GVWR & RGAWR TVs has more margin. Therefore should have more left in them...unless previous beat the snoot out of them

Oh...also note that a 95 +8K GVWR (3/4ton) 6K RGAWR is the SAME axle as the 1 ton dually of that era. Diff are in the spring pack & rear brake shoe with/wheel cylinder borel

[Grit_dog]

Older and more capable and better mileage are words that are not often used together.
But you’ll be better served to stick with a full size v8 body on frame for towing compared to the cracker boxes you mentioned.
I still say, gmt 400s are still some of the best vehicles for a combo of modern features with old simplicity and largely the most reliable, cheap to fix. Find you a cherry gmt 400 and don’t worry about mileage.
Or anything newer, the options are endless.

[Lwiddis]

12 to 14 MPG with the Silverado and 4000 pounds of trailer was pretty good. You won’t do better wth gasoline IMO. I get 11 to 12 with 5200 pounds of TT driving 55 MPH.