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This is a reason why Pop Ups aren't selling......

Mike_Up
Explorer
Explorer
as well as they use to. It's because of how expensive they are now especially compared to travel trailers.



2015 Jay Series 1209SC

The options for this floorplan are listed below.

Customer Value Package (Mandatory) $817.00

Bath/shower with hard walls $2,129.00

(2) Bed mat heaters $262.00

Stereo w/ outside speakers $187.00

Powered roof vent $210.00

16,000-BTU furnace w/ auto ignition $397.00

$17,608 MSRP

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2015 Jay Flight SLX 184BH

The options for this floorplan are listed below.

Customer Value Package (Mandatory) $1,199.00

Roof-mounted 13,500-BTU A/C $412.00

$14,647 MSRP
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264BHW | 2015 JAY FLIGHT SLX

The options for this floorplan are listed below.

Customer Value Package (Mandatory) $1,199.00

Spare tire $180.00

$18,463 MSRP
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2019 Ford F150 XLT Sport, CC, 4WD, 145" WB, 3.5L Ecoboost, 10 speed, 3.55 9.75" Locking Axle, Max Tow, 1831# Payload, 10700# Tow Rating, pulling a 2020 Rockwood Premier 2716g, with a 14' box. Previous 2012 Jayco Jay Flight 26BH.
106 REPLIES 106

Adam_H
Explorer
Explorer
HRcampers wrote:
Picking up our new 2016 Rockwood A192HW A-frame hardside pop up this Saturday.

DW and I are very much looking forward to the downsize. We started with a base Rockwood Pop up and have had 3 TT's and one 5er in between.

I'm sure there will be regrets in some cases, especially the loss of a full size washroom, but the positives in our current situation, will out number the negatives.

Biggest positive for me will be storing it in my garage as opposed to storing it in a storage lot 4 miles away. Another positive will be not having to take care of and tow such a large trailer.

We are empty nesters now and it's just the two of us. We are excited to make the change.

I do agree with many posters on this subject, that the price we paid for this a-frame, exceeds many TT's that are 19-26 feet in length.



Did the same thing 8 months ago you are doing now but we are not empty nesters (looking foward to it though). We made the change for exactly the same reasons you have and never looked back. Actually, we thought about moving on to another hobby because RVing wasn't fun anymore. In the end what we needed was to get back to camping, not RVing.

Adam
2007 Fleetwood Avalon HW PUP
2001 Excursion 6.8L V10 3.73
2005 F150 5.4L
Gone but not Forgotten: 1971 Trailstar PUP, 2002 Fleetwood Wilderness Northwest Edition, 2002 Keystone Bobcat 280-EB

HRcampers
Explorer
Explorer
Picking up our new 2016 Rockwood A192HW A-frame hardside pop up this Saturday.

DW and I are very much looking forward to the downsize. We started with a base Rockwood Pop up and have had 3 TT's and one 5er in between.

I'm sure there will be regrets in some cases, especially the loss of a full size washroom, but the positives in our current situation, will out number the negatives.

Biggest positive for me will be storing it in my garage as opposed to storing it in a storage lot 4 miles away. Another positive will be not having to take care of and tow such a large trailer.

We are empty nesters now and it's just the two of us. We are excited to make the change.

I do agree with many posters on this subject, that the price we paid for this a-frame, exceeds many TT's that are 19-26 feet in length.
Robert and Anne Marie
Warren, Michigan
2016 Rockwood A192HW A-frame
2016 Ford F250 Super Duty, 2wd, 6.2 gasser
2016 Toyota Rav4

manualman
Explorer
Explorer
mileshuff wrote:
... Today's lightest Jayco popup is 1500lbs dry ...


1,265# actually. And those weights are a bit more honest than they once were since such absurdities as "optional" spare tires are now standard equipment included in the base weight.

Granted, that still doesn't include the battery, LP, AC, furnace, etc but you CAN still get the basic light popup of old. It's just that few actually DO. I'm pretty sure a modern Camry 4 banger actually would do a lot better job towing it than a Suzuki with the wheezy 4 cylinder of 20ish years ago!

The poster who cited demographics may have nailed it. The average family of the 50's and 60's had 3-4 kids. Today the average is 1.6 kids. Two less kids dragging down finances and fewer bodies to lay out for sleeping does, perhaps, explain the feature creep and TT trend.

JiminDenver
Explorer
Explorer
I didn't read the whole thread so I may repeat something or it may not be popular.

A full size pop up is a monster by the time it has all of the conveniences of a regular trailer. I would need the Expedition that pulls our 25ft TT, the gas mileage may be better but the hassle isn't worth it.

Our 3 season TT cost $13.5 new, can't get much pop up for that. I've done sub freezing in tents and trailers, a cheap 3 season is still better than canvas.

I have seen pop ups associated with the less affluent families with a bunch of kids. Other than that I see the biggest interest in the off road crowd.

I did see pop ups I wouldn't mind having. Nothing fancy, actually the ultra light weight, high clearance models. Nothing it it, tent gear only and pulled by our wimpy F150 4x4 that can't handle the lightest TC or pull a decent pop up. What it can do is pull something light and high clearance places I'd never take the trailer or fit a TC.

Yeahhh That'll get me in trouble. LoL
2011 GulfStream Amerilite 25BH
2003 Ford Expedition with 435w tilting portable/ TS-MPPT-45
750w solar , TS-MPPT-60 on the trailer
675 Ah bank, Trip-lite 1250fc inverter
Sportsman 2200w inverter generator

mileshuff
Explorer
Explorer
I'd say expense and weight. The two main reasons people opt for a popup is low weight for easy towing and lower costs compared to a TT.

Todays popups are NOT light weight and NOT low cost. In the early 90's we bought a Coleman Roanoke. Weighed about 1,000lbs fully loaded. I towed it for years with a lowly Suzuki Samurai. Today's lightest Jayco popup is 1500lbs dry and priced more than three times as much. Inflation doesn't account for the price.
2014 Winnebago 26FWRKS 5th Wheel
2007.5 Dodge 2500 6.7L Diesel
2004 Dodge Durango Hemi 3.55 (Used to tow TT)

temccarthy1
Explorer
Explorer
I think the REAL reason for the demise of the PUP is AFFLUENCE! When we bought our Coleman PUP 33 years ago in 1983, PUPS were everywhere! Our family of 4 were young, the kids small and a PUP was luxurious by camping standards then! PUPS outnumbered TT's back then as an economical way to upgrade from a tent. Ours was a 82 Coleman Sun Valley which was pretty big for the 80's and it cost only 3000 as a demo. It weighed only 1000 lbs and we actually towed it with a Toyota Celica then later a Plymouth Voyager 4 cyl mini van! We used it for almost 30 years and each year the number of PUPS declined and TT's and class A's increased. Just like bigger houses for 1st
timers, campers evolved into much fancier big TT's and the much more affluent baby boomers as they are retiring can afford much bigger and nicer TT's . I also think concerns over security with the way the world has changed are leading buyers to secure TT's compared to a PUP with just canvas between where you and the family are sleeping and the outside world. When we go camping now, Pups are about 10% at best compared to TT's, 5th wheels and class A's. So just like our homes were bigger and fancier than our parent's homes.. so it is with campers these days!
Tim, Ramona and dog Scruffy
1982 Coleman Sun Valley PUP (retired)
2014 Keystone Bullet 285RLS Ultralite TT
2013 Ford Expedition XLT 5.4L Triton V8
Equalizer E2 hitch

bondebond
Explorer
Explorer
This was an easy fix for our two kids who can't stand to be near each other. Well, one of them can't which causes a cascade of issues but regardless. With a 14' highwall, each bunk end is a king. We made two "rooms" out of the other bunk by putting 3-drawer plastic shelves right down the middle under the shepherds pole. After we taught them to quit screwing around with pushing the drawers into each other (kids can be taught), it has worked beautifully for years now. The bonus is that it gives us storage for their clothes and other things and DS thinks he has a bit of a man cave on his side for when he needs to retreat.

It's all in how you approach issues and look to resolve them.
This space left intentionally.

2006 Fleetwood Sequoia and mods...one of the tallest highwall pop-ups on the planet after flipping the axle.

Mike_Up
Explorer
Explorer
Jeff10236 wrote:
For a family a pop-up has definite advantages over a TT. A pop-up has dedicated sleeping space for a family of four without having to convert a sofa or dinette to a bed.


I disagree on that one. Trying to get our son and daughter to sleep in the bed is a no go. Their age differences are huge and my daughter would never sleep. The one big problem was finding sofas and dinettes large enough for sleeping, since no Pop Up has 3 bunkends.

There are so many TTs out there with 3 separate sleeping areas. Hek, even the small R-Pods now offer several bunk models.
2019 Ford F150 XLT Sport, CC, 4WD, 145" WB, 3.5L Ecoboost, 10 speed, 3.55 9.75" Locking Axle, Max Tow, 1831# Payload, 10700# Tow Rating, pulling a 2020 Rockwood Premier 2716g, with a 14' box. Previous 2012 Jayco Jay Flight 26BH.

Jeff10236
Explorer
Explorer
Back to the OP, sure, price probably has something to do with the drop in pop-up sales. Though, I'm not sure it is anywhere near the main reason. Look at the A-frames, they are flying off dealer lots (compared to many other RV categories anyway), are a type of pop-up, and are priced up there with the hybrids and cheaper TTs. Heck, while many pop-ups certainly can be overpriced and overweight, pretty much every pop-up manufacturer puts out one 8' and one 10' model (and often a 12' model) in their economy lines that are reasonable on price and weight (Jayco 8SD, 10SD, 12UD; Flagstaff 175LTD and 206LTD; and Rockwood 1640 and 1940 for instance).

I think a bigger factor is demographics. 20 or 30 years ago, you would see many families out there camping in pop-ups. For a family a pop-up has definite advantages over a TT. A pop-up has dedicated sleeping space for a family of four without having to convert a sofa or dinette to a bed. For a family with more than 2 kids you will need to convert living space to sleeping space, but a TT with sleeping space (even converted sleeping space) for more than 4 will be getting quite large, heavy, and expensive. Today, most RVers are older with grown kids. That demographic doesn't need as much dedicated sleeping space so the more restricted sleeping areas of a TT (or A-frame) aren't the disadvantage they are for a family so the TT becomes more popular. If you don't need the big advantage of a pop-up (more sleeping area in a smaller space), why deal with the extra set up of a pop-up (especially at a demographic where arthritis and other aches and pains start to show up).

Related to the above, living situations may make TTs more popular. Someone already mentioned housing costs keeping many younger families out of buying a camper due to tighter finances (and we all know that real income has been declining over the past 30 years). Also, related to more older folks and fewer families in campers, I suspect that living situations due to an aging RVing population may negate one of the big advantages of pop-ups. One of the big advantages of a pop-up is that you can store it in your garage. With a larger TT, many communities don't allow you to park them on your property so you have the extra cost of storage. Well, my parents just bought a 55 and over condo and are about to move out of the house where I grew up, and an aunt and uncle did the same thing (in a bungalow) a few years ago, and they aren't alone. Many older people are moving out of the houses (with garages) where they raised their kids into over 55 bungalows (with tighter spaces and streets where pulling a trailer would be tough), over 55 condos and regular condos. Living in a condo or apartment, you may not be able to store your pop-up on the property, so with either a TT or pop-up you may need to rent storage space, thus negating one of the biggest advantages of a PUP.

Now, over the past couple years, I seem to see more and more young families rediscovering camping and I see many out there tent camping. I'm hoping that as many of them decide to move up to something more comfortable we will see an uptick in the pup-up market. Even if we don't, I think the declining sales is far more complicated than just the price of the units.
Tow Vehicles: 2016 Kia Sorento LX V6 (sold)
Other vehicles: 2019 Hyundai Sonata Sport, 2021 Hyundai Ioniq EV (a hatchback so great for tent camping, but needs an electric hook up to charge the car)
Camper: 2003 Starcraft 2406 (sold)
Several tents

TAGLARRY
Explorer
Explorer
My Rockwood HW316TH pop up camper was "on sale" in Denver, Colorado for $18,999, from the MSRP of $21,999. I told the salesman that it wasn't worth even near that amount. I found one in Iowa for $12,300 for the exact same camper. I bought it the next week.

I had a friend in the business that told me that MSRP is double what the dealer paid for the trailer.

jerem0621
Explorer II
Explorer II
PAThwacker wrote:
Modern Day 8 ft Popup
GVWR 2336 lbs.
Hitch Weight 176 lbs.
UVW 1937 lbs.
CCC 399 lbs.

GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) โ€“ is the maximum permissible weight of the unit when fully loaded. It includes all weights, inclusive of all fluids, cargo, optional equipment and accessories. For safety and product performance do NOT exceed the GVWR.

Typical camping weekend would eat up the 399 lbs CCC.

Vans and lessor 3500lb rated CUV would be lugging 2336 lbs and 300 lbs tongue weight.


My PUP is 2700 ish lbs and with my 3500 lb rated van it is NOT lugging. This thing is a towing beast and will pull the mountains at any speed I desire.... which is generally 5 mph under the speed limit. I actually had to slow down crossing Monteagle Mountain. The Van was wanting to pull faster than the speed limit. LOL

Thanks!

Jeremiah
TV-2022 Silverado 2WD
TT - Zinger 270BH
WD Hitch- HaulMaster 1,000 lb Round Bar
Dual Friction bar sway control

Itโ€™s Kind of Fun to do the Impossible
~Walt Disney~

Adam_H
Explorer
Explorer
I traded a 28+ ft TT for a PUP a few months ago, although it's not a basic PUP it was one of my best camping decisions. Everything got easier with that decision.

Adam
2007 Fleetwood Avalon HW PUP
2001 Excursion 6.8L V10 3.73
2005 F150 5.4L
Gone but not Forgotten: 1971 Trailstar PUP, 2002 Fleetwood Wilderness Northwest Edition, 2002 Keystone Bobcat 280-EB

jmcgsd
Explorer
Explorer
I have an F350 Dually (see sig) that will pull my 28' 7500# TT or carry my Lance camper.

However I just purchased a used 2010 Hyundai Santa Fe that can theoretically tow 2000# without the optional tow package. I've been scouting CL for lightweight, older pop ups with decent canvas. Seems to be plenty out there for between $800 and $1200 list. I'm thinking I'd love to go camping with the Hyundai. Only downside is that at my age (72) I gotta have a can. PortaPotti would probably do.

My wife would NEVER let me keep all three and I refuse to sell the Lance so that means I'd trade a 28' TT for a very basic popup. Hmmmmm ......
'09 Pacific Coachworks Tango 276RBS
95 Lance 880 Truck Camper

'91 F350 Dually 2WD CC 7.5L (76K Original miles!)
AirLift Bags, Reese Titan hitch, Rancho 9000X

manualman
Explorer
Explorer
Um, not. Some pesky facts might help:

2016 Jayco 8SD
1,265# Dry weight
Dry hitch weight 170#
1,800# GVWR

But you can do a lot better than that with a 3,500# rated tow vehicle:
2016 Jayco 1207UD
1,870# dry
245# dry hitch wt
2,900 GVWR

My 2005 Fleetwood is nearly identical and we've pulled it nearly everywhere with a Honda minivan without ever having a breakdown or premature vehicle wear.

PATthwacker, you made a nearly identical post on another thread. Who makes this amazingly porky 8 footer you are citing?