LT tires on your TT? Let the fight begin

[agesilaus]

The long Honeymoon just released a blog entry advocating using LT tires not ST. I have to admit I don't even know what brand of tires my TT has on it. They have been problem free. But I have had plenty of trouble in the past. They especially dislike marathons, no surprise. Take a look, you don't have to watch the whole thing they make their argument in the fir 6 or 7 minutes the rest is just doing it over and over.

But I'll say they make sense to me. Airstream is supply Michelin LT tires on their units as an option.

[Mike134]

CALandLIN wrote:

Mike134 wrote:

CALandLIN wrote:
"Tires should always be replaced with the same size designation, with approved or greater load carrying capacity -- or approved options -- as recommended by the vehicle manufacturer or authorized dealer."

The preceding quote is a tire industry standard. It's the primary reason reputable tire dealers and tire installers will not deviate from a designated size if the have to fit the replacement to a vehicle.

The proper nomenclature description for any tire is on its sidewall. Therefore, a ST235/85R16 is not compatible with a LT235/85R16. Those are both completely different tires. The prefix (LT, ST, P) are officially part of tire's size designation.

You don't believe that do you? People have been swapping sizes and tire types for as long as cars been on the roads. I was always putting bigger fatter tires on my GTO trying to get them to hook, all D.O.T. tires yet no one blinked an eye putting a different size tire on the car. Just did it last year to my truck. I will say they will not go smaller than OEM unless you sign a waiver. Bigger no hesitation!

You don't believe that do you?

Sure I do. Its a quote right off the Michelin replacement tire pages. You'll also find it at GY, Bridgestone, General, Maxxis or any other major tire builder. Because its not adheared to doesn't make it disappear.

Here's how it works. The vehicle builder selects tires that are appropriate for that vehicle and sets a recommended cold inflation for them. Then they say not to use tires that are smaller or have less load capacity than the OE tires, UNLESS the replacements are approved by the vehicle manufacturer. A tire manufacturer is not going to knowingly trump the OE tire size without repercussions. Every time they have tried it and for some reason ended-up in court defending their decision, they have lost.

that is EXACTLY how it works they say don't go smaller............bigger is OK whether it's diameter width or load rating. never seen a warning not to go larger

[CALandLIN]

Mike134 wrote:

CALandLIN wrote:
"Tires should always be replaced with the same size designation, with approved or greater load carrying capacity -- or approved options -- as recommended by the vehicle manufacturer or authorized dealer."

The preceding quote is a tire industry standard. It's the primary reason reputable tire dealers and tire installers will not deviate from a designated size if the have to fit the replacement to a vehicle.

The proper nomenclature description for any tire is on its sidewall. Therefore, a ST235/85R16 is not compatible with a LT235/85R16. Those are both completely different tires. The prefix (LT, ST, P) are officially part of tire's size designation.

You don't believe that do you? People have been swapping sizes and tire types for as long as cars been on the roads. I was always putting bigger fatter tires on my GTO trying to get them to hook, all D.O.T. tires yet no one blinked an eye putting a different size tire on the car. Just did it last year to my truck. I will say they will not go smaller than OEM unless you sign a waiver. Bigger no hesitation!

You don't believe that do you?

Sure I do. Its a quote right off the Michelin replacement tire pages. You'll also find it at GY, Bridgestone, General, Maxxis or any other major tire builder. Because its not adheared to doesn't make it disappear.

Here's how it works. The vehicle builder selects tires that are appropriate for that vehicle and sets a recommended cold inflation for them. Then they say not to use tires that are smaller or have less load capacity than the OE tires, UNLESS the replacements are approved by the vehicle manufacturer. A tire manufacturer is not going to knowingly trump the OE tire size without repercussions. Every time they have tried it and for some reason ended-up in court defending their decision, they have lost.

[deltabravo]

Boon Docker wrote:
Could be that there are umpteen times more ST tires on travel trailers than there are LT tires. So you are going to hear about more failures with ST than LT.

I think it's more like "eleventy-billion" more....

🙂

[Mike134]

CALandLIN wrote:
"Tires should always be replaced with the same size designation, with approved or greater load carrying capacity -- or approved options -- as recommended by the vehicle manufacturer or authorized dealer."

The preceding quote is a tire industry standard. It's the primary reason reputable tire dealers and tire installers will not deviate from a designated size if the have to fit the replacement to a vehicle.

The proper nomenclature description for any tire is on its sidewall. Therefore, a ST235/85R16 is not compatible with a LT235/85R16. Those are both completely different tires. The prefix (LT, ST, P) are officially part of tire's size designation.

You don't believe that do you? People have been swapping sizes and tire types for as long as cars been on the roads. I was always putting bigger fatter tires on my GTO trying to get them to hook, all D.O.T. tires yet no one blinked an eye putting a different size tire on the car. Just did it last year to my truck. I will say they will not go smaller than OEM unless you sign a waiver. Bigger no hesitation!

[CALandLIN]

"Tires should always be replaced with the same size designation, with approved or greater load carrying capacity -- or approved options -- as recommended by the vehicle manufacturer or authorized dealer."

The preceding quote is a tire industry standard. It's the primary reason reputable tire dealers and tire installers will not deviate from a designated size if the have to fit the replacement to a vehicle.

The proper nomenclature description for any tire is on its sidewall. Therefore, a ST235/85R16 is not compatible with a LT235/85R16. Those are both completely different tires. The prefix (LT, ST, P) are officially part of tire's size designation.

[Huntindog]

Boon Docker wrote:

agesilaus wrote:

CALandLIN wrote:
The builders of ST tires advertise them as having stronger sidewalls than like sized LT or P tires. To counter that, one would have to get a tire engineer to unequivocally dispute that so called “theory”.

Until you can explain why they catastrophically fail at much greater rate than passenger or LT tires, I'll assume they are lying.

Could be that there are umpteen times more ST tires on travel trailers than there are LT tires. So you are going to hear about more failures with ST than LT.

Well to counter that..... There are many times more LT tires on the road than there are STs...
Yet LT tire failures do not seem to be all that common.
And I quit believing that LT tires live a eaiser life than STs a long time ago.
Just observe whot gets loaded into pickups at Home Dept on a daily basis.
Fact is, most do not give their LT tires a second thought, they just expect them to work.

Unike here, where every ST tire failure is said to be the operators fault.

Point: TTs follow TVs. The tires on both travel the same roads. Yet the STs seem to fail a lot more often.... And those that have swapped to LTs..... Well their problems stop.

We have at least one member here that even after at least SEVEN ST failures, still posting drivel to scare people away from the LT tire swap.

I was hard to convince that the ST tire thing was a sham... But I did eventually learn.

My advice? Don't drink the koolaid. It gets really expensive.

[Boon_Docker]

agesilaus wrote:

CALandLIN wrote:
The builders of ST tires advertise them as having stronger sidewalls than like sized LT or P tires. To counter that, one would have to get a tire engineer to unequivocally dispute that so called “theory”.

Until you can explain why they catastrophically fail at much greater rate than passenger or LT tires, I'll assume they are lying.

Could be that there are umpteen times more ST tires on travel trailers than there are LT tires. So you are going to hear about more failures with ST than LT.

[Huntindog]

CALandLIN wrote:
The builders of ST tires advertise them as having stronger sidewalls than like sized LT or P tires. To counter that, one would have to get a tire engineer to unequivocally dispute that so called “theory”.

Why bother? Experts can be bought. It happens all of the time in courtrooms across the country. Each side of a case brings their experts in and of course they advocate for the prosecution or defense.... depending on which side is paying them...

As for advertising claims.... That too often is all they are.
How many times does someone come on this forum stating their tow rating is X, only to learn here that is only an advertising number, that can rarely if ever be attained.

Or some power ratings get inflated to drive sales.... But when the independant performance tests are done, it is obvious that the advertised numbers don't jive.

Yes, Koolaid comes in many flavors. Look hard enough and one can find a flavor they like.

Or one can leave the koolaid for the kids, and see things for how they actually are.... Not how they wish they were.

[agesilaus]

CALandLIN wrote:
The builders of ST tires advertise them as having stronger sidewalls than like sized LT or P tires. To counter that, one would have to get a tire engineer to unequivocally dispute that so called “theory”.

Until you can explain why they catastrophically fail at much greater rate than passenger or LT tires, I'll assume they are lying.

[CALandLIN]

The builders of ST tires advertise them as having stronger sidewalls than like sized LT or P tires. To counter that, one would have to get a tire engineer to unequivocally dispute that so called “theory”.

[PaulJ2]

I don't buy the stronger sidewall theory. You don't think a P or LT tire on a vehicle in a high speed turn has less side force?
I think your answer is with the lawyer words on the sidewall----FOR TRAILER SERVICE ONLY!
Also most failures are tread/lamination failures, not sidewall failures.

[Huntindog]

wnjj wrote:

Bionic Man wrote:

kellem wrote:
Most tire issues are user error.

Trailer unlevel loading up 1 axle.
Improper inflation, always on the low side.

That said,
When it's time for tires, always upgrade.

I'd love to see a data source on that, as it is far from my experience.

I check the tires themself and pressure before every trip. Yet, over the years, I have had more tread separations on trailer tires than I can count.

How many times have I had trouble with tires on cars/trucks? I can think of 3. And, like most, probably over 80% of my time driving is solo.

So why do I have trouble with trailer tires and not LT/P tires?

It isn't really fair to compare car/truck tire failure rates to trailer ones. The trailer axle is wider and exposed to more road debris/hazards than the tow vehicle.

I haven't measured, but I doubt TT axles are wider than the duallys I have been towing with for over 20 years without any failures.

[Huntindog]

Terryallan wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

ScottG wrote:
The 16" GY Endurance's have been problem free on our TT and negate the need for LT's. However, I hate the co. and would pay 50% more for a similarly performing tire just to avoid them.
When the time comes for new tires, I'll be checking out all the options.

Agree. I owned a LOT of Marathons. They all failed in short order. At every replacement, I upgraded size and load range. That TT started out life with 205/14 LRC. the last set of Marathons were 215/15 LRE. All failed. I fell for all the propoganda which was parroted here by many about the NEED to run STs. That 2001 TT ended up with Michelin XPS Ribs in 2006. I have not had a single hint of a tire problem ever since.
When GY came out with the Endurance, many of the previous ST proponents here rushed out to buy them (in spite of their professed alliegance to the previous STs)

I having already found a solution that worked.... will not buy a tire from a company that repeatadly told how great their previous tires were.... IOW, they cheerfully took thousands of dollars from me selling me junk tires. They no longer deserve any more of my money.

For those of you trying out these new tires.. I wish you luck.
If you start having trouble, you can always go to LTs then.... And tire size upgrades are possible in many cases. That 2001 TT that started out life with 205/14s LRC had 225/16 LREs when I sold it. Yes I had to make a few changes to make the upsized tires work.... But I had so many failures that I needed to do something to stop them. I grew weary of sitting on the side of the road in 110 degrees dealing with tire problems.

I just got to ask. WHY did you keep buying Marathons? I lost ONE Marathon in it's fourth year. I then put on MAXXIS. I never had a problem with them.

The next TT came with tow Masters. I lost 2 of them in their fourth year. I now have Maxxis on it. As of yet no problems.

In truth. I really don't trust GY for tires. especially trailer tires. The GY Endurance have only been on the market for 3 years. I'll wait until they can build a reputation before I spend my money on them. As it is right now MAXXIS has the best reputation in the ST industry. so I'm using them.

That was just the Goodyears. I did not buy 3 sets of them in a row. I also had a couple of sets of Carlise, one set of NanKing and another brand I can't remember the name of now. IOW, I believed what was being preached here. That the failures were somehow not the tires fault. So I tried different brands first, then upgrading load ratings, then sizes and finally LTs fixed it. IOW, I gave STs a more than fair shot.

[Huntindog]

roeler

Mike134 wrote:
too heavy? The guy above 100% boon docking talks about 80 gallon black and grey tanks, lot of weight leaving on that back axle, those the tires that always seem to fail?

No, those were on my 2001 Prowler 26H which was quite a bit lighter than my present TT.
In fact, when I brought my present 2010 Sabre home. I immeadiatly switched the tires/rims from my old Prowler to my new Sabre. I would rather have old LTs than new STs. The buyer of my old TT was impressed with the brand new tires and rims he was getting. I was happy they made the trip home on the new TT and glad to be rid of them.
What is interesting is that the Michelins that I swapped to my new TT were a little under rated for it. The Michelins didn't seem to mind, and when they reached 5 years, I got the next size up.

On edit: My Sabre has two 42 gallon grey and two 42 gallon black tanks. So the weight isn't all concentrated in one spot.... And yes I have towed it home with all waste tanks full many times... 100% boondocking! Often for more than 2 weeks.

[Bionic_Man]

2oldman wrote:

wnjj wrote:
it isn't really fair to compare car/truck tire failure rates to trailer ones. The trailer axle is wider and exposed to more road debris/hazards than the tow vehicle.

And most trailers/5ers are much heavier.

Yes, most 5ers are heavier than an average car. I've had multiple failures on boat trailers. I've never owned a boat that out weighs my truck.

It isn't a weight issue. It isn't an owner issue. It is a product quality issue.