Laminated Fiberglass Walls

[BCwestcoast]

Looking at purchasing a new camper.

Looking for experiences with the Adventurer 901SB / Arctic Fox 865

I like the 2" R13 insulation of the Adventurer, I dislike the layout and storage.

I like the layout and storage of the Arctic Fox but would like there to be something more than the R7? insulation.... (actually, they don't specify what the wall insulation is. Just that it is 5" thick at the crown)

What has been everyone's experiences with the laminated aluminum framed walls with either of these campers?

How has the build quality been?

Have they solved the problem of laminated wall campers coming apart like a cheap watch at the slightest hint of moisture?

[towpro]

StirCrazy wrote:


there was a rash of manufactuing issues that lead to delamination, but even after that can we realy say its owner neglect. I would put that back on manufctures and dealerships for failing to let you knw how much work is involved in upkeep for fear of losing a sale.

I bought a 2011 Open Range that was 9 months old when I got it. it was already delamanating before I got it (I did not know that was what was happening, it looked like a bad saw cut to me).
Bit the manafactures build a POS camper with open cell foam tape for gaskets on all sealing joints, nothing like marker lights is sealed, places where several different materials all mate together in one location (roof rubber, roof edge trim, gutters, plastic rain gutter extensions, fiberglass, etc) and seal it with dycore which last 2 months before it cracks from the dissimilar expansion rates and blame it on the owners for not doing maintenance. typical RV industry reaction. its always the owners fault. And the only thing I see that might have changed some are bragging about using lauan that now don't rot when it gets wet? The quality still is bad. yes I did have a truck camper that really seemed to care and they still did thinks like seal stuff with putty tape so some manufactures still care about customer more than investors. The manufactures need to learn if you sell someone a turd, they might look somewhere else before they buy again".

[3_tons]

Pbutler97 wrote:

3 tons wrote:
Not unlike a 2x4, the advertised 2” wall thickness is merely a nominal figure whereby 2” camper wall thickness is actually at 1.5”, but still good and not to be dismissed…

The premium exterior siding product is made by Lamilux (particularly Lamilux uber glossy 4000), used by Eagle Cap and Adventurer (superior to Filon, especially so of Filon atop luan…).

https://www.lamilux.com/composites.html

Also Azdell is a top-tier composite product totally unrelated to cheap Luan, and is unaffected by moisture.

https://azdelonboard.com/

3 tons

Except although Azdel might be top tier, the panel is laminated together with water soluble adhesives thanks to the EPA so if water gets in there you can still have the same end result, delamination. The only difference is the Azdel will not come apart itself like luan might, and it wont rot. But if the Azdel releases from the foam core or the Filon/Fiberglass releases from the Azdel due to the adhesive failing, you've gained absolutely no benefit.

It sure looks good on websites and sales brochures though, sort of like "4 season", "highest quality", "Amish Crapmanship", etc.

Given the choice I'll take the Azdel but it's not the bulletproof thing that some people think it is. A lot of manufacturers will only use Azdel for the outer substrate and still use Luan for the inner layer (Layer that wall covering is applied to). What does that gain you?

Would be interesting to see some supporting data 🙂

3 tons

[theoldwizard1]

towpro wrote:
some manufacturers have started using 1/4 lauan plywood that is treated to not degenerate when it gets wet.
Example forest river calls it Azdel they use on both inside and outside walls.

Azdel contains NO wood or other organic compounds ! It will not rot !!

Delamination is when the outer skin pulls away from the sheathing underneath. This a failure of the adhesive and is almost always caused by moisture.

[StirCrazy]

theoldwizard1 wrote:

deltabravo wrote:

BCwestcoast wrote:
Have they solved the problem of laminated wall campers coming apart like a cheap watch at the slightest hint of moisture?

Proper maintenance prevents water intrusion.

Any time I've seen a laminated wall delaminate, it's because it leaked.
It leaked because the owner neglected it (translation: didn't do roof inspections / reseal when needed)

Absolutely 100% correct !

I just wanted to re-emphasize it !!

there was a rash of manufactuing issues that lead to delamination, but even after that can we realy say its owner neglect. I would put that back on manufctures and dealerships for failing to let you knw how much work is involved in upkeep for fear of losing a sale.

[theoldwizard1]

deltabravo wrote:

BCwestcoast wrote:
Have they solved the problem of laminated wall campers coming apart like a cheap watch at the slightest hint of moisture?

Proper maintenance prevents water intrusion.

Any time I've seen a laminated wall delaminate, it's because it leaked.
It leaked because the owner neglected it (translation: didn't do roof inspections / reseal when needed)

Absolutely 100% correct !

I just wanted to re-emphasize it !!

[StirCrazy]

BCwestcoast wrote:
Thanks for the replies,

I'll be using a 2004 dodge 3500 diesel single rear wheel long bed to haul the camper with.

I currently have a 2002 Adventurer 100WSB
The walls are about 3/4" thick with a bit of fibreglass bat stuffed in the middle. Single pane windows. I'm thinking ~anything~ will be a step up in the insulation department. I have had ice form on the inside corners of the camper before....

Its been a bit of a struggle keeping the water out from the day I got it in 2010. However, it has served me well and taken the abuse I have thrown at it.

I don't typically stay in camp sites. Pretty much all locations I have taken the camper has involved several Km of logging road. Even stuffed it down a short 1km quad trail once....

thats kinda cool, you have the same modle as me except mine is a 1991 with alumium siding and sill under the Slumberqueen name. but exact same layout.

[BCwestcoast]

Thanks for the replies,

I'll be using a 2004 dodge 3500 diesel single rear wheel long bed to haul the camper with.

I currently have a 2002 Adventurer 100WSB
The walls are about 3/4" thick with a bit of fibreglass bat stuffed in the middle. Single pane windows. I'm thinking ~anything~ will be a step up in the insulation department. I have had ice form on the inside corners of the camper before....

Its been a bit of a struggle keeping the water out from the day I got it in 2010. However, it has served me well and taken the abuse I have thrown at it.

I don't typically stay in camp sites. Pretty much all locations I have taken the camper has involved several Km of logging road. Even stuffed it down a short 1km quad trail once....

[deltabravo]

I'm on my second Arctic Fox truck camper.

I had a 2010 811 from November 2009-Aogust 2020.

In August of 2020I I upgraded to a 2018 992.

While owning the truck campers, I've also owned two other Northwood RVs, both Nash TTs.

AF truck campers are heavy. I wouldn't put one with a slideout on an SRW truck, though many owners do.

The long bed AF 811 I had put my 2009 3500HD Dually over the GVWR before I even loaded the camper for a trip, so that's why I know I'd never put one with a slide on an SRW.

The real world dry weights are much higher than the specs Northwood publishes. I don't think they've re-weighed their campers in 15 years.

I have never had any build quality issues with either AF I've owned.

I don't like the new gray exterior AF campers. After constant sun exposure, the gray will start to fade/oxidize more than the white campers.

I prefer the sliding thermal pane windows instead of the new frameless windows that all of the gray AFs use.

If you see a white AF with windows that have a small tilt out section, they are single pane. The thermal pane windows on white AFs are going to be sliding windows.

If I were in the market for another AF, I'd seriously look at buying a late model pre-owned 865, like a 2017,18 or 19.
Thermal pane windows are a must in my opinion, otherwise you will be dealing with condensation on the windows in cold weather camping.

811s and 865s can be had in a long bed or short bed version. The short bed version has a generator compartment on the back right side compartment.

Here's a long video on my 992, to get an idea of the interior: My AF 992

[deltabravo]

BCwestcoast wrote:
Have they solved the problem of laminated wall campers coming apart like a cheap watch at the slightest hint of moisture?

Proper maintenance prevents water intrusion.

Any time I've seen a laminated wall delaminate, it's because it leaked.
It leaked because the owner neglected it (translation: didn't do roof inspections / reseal when needed)

[StirCrazy]

3 tons wrote:
Not unlike a 2x4, the advertised 2” wall thickness is merely a nominal figure whereby 2” camper wall thickness is actually at 1.5”, but still good and not to be dismissed…


3 tons

I think in the case of artic fox they use 2" aluminum square tube for the frame so the wals would be slightly over 2" at least that what they say is the major difference between the artic fox and the wolf creek line which only uses 1" alumium tubing I did have a actualy construction sheep here from the manufacture I'll see if I can find it and confirm that

Steve

[Pbutler97]

3 tons wrote:
Not unlike a 2x4, the advertised 2” wall thickness is merely a nominal figure whereby 2” camper wall thickness is actually at 1.5”, but still good and not to be dismissed…

The premium exterior siding product is made by Lamilux (particularly Lamilux uber glossy 4000), used by Eagle Cap and Adventurer (superior to Filon, especially so of Filon atop luan…).

https://www.lamilux.com/composites.html

Also Azdell is a top-tier composite product totally unrelated to cheap Luan, and is unaffected by moisture.

https://azdelonboard.com/

3 tons

Except although Azdel might be top tier, the panel is laminated together with water soluble adhesives thanks to the EPA so if water gets in there you can still have the same end result, delamination. The only difference is the Azdel will not come apart itself like luan might, and it wont rot. But if the Azdel releases from the foam core or the Filon/Fiberglass releases from the Azdel due to the adhesive failing, you've gained absolutely no benefit.

It sure looks good on websites and sales brochures though, sort of like "4 season", "highest quality", "Amish Crapmanship", etc.

Given the choice I'll take the Azdel but it's not the bulletproof thing that some people think it is. A lot of manufacturers will only use Azdel for the outer substrate and still use Luan for the inner layer (Layer that wall covering is applied to). What does that gain you?

[3_tons]

Not unlike a 2x4, the advertised 2” wall thickness is merely a nominal figure whereby 2” camper wall thickness is actually at 1.5”, but still good and not to be dismissed…

The premium exterior siding product is made by Lamilux (particularly Lamilux uber glossy 4000), used by Eagle Cap and Adventurer (superior to Filon, especially so of Filon atop luan…).

https://www.lamilux.com/composites.html

Also Azdell is a top-tier composite product totally unrelated to cheap Luan, and is unaffected by moisture.

https://azdelonboard.com/

3 tons

[StirCrazy]

BCwestcoast wrote:
Looking at purchasing a new camper.

Looking for experiences with the Adventurer 901SB / Arctic Fox 865

I like the 2" R13 insulation of the Adventurer, I dislike the layout and storage.

I like the layout and storage of the Arctic Fox but would like there to be something more than the R7? insulation.... (actually, they don't specify what the wall insulation is. Just that it is 5" thick at the crown)

What has been everyone's experiences with the laminated aluminum framed walls with either of these campers?

How has the build quality been?

Have they solved the problem of laminated wall campers coming apart like a cheap watch at the slightest hint of moisture?

artic fox is probably one of the best insulated you can get, the wall thickness on the artic fox is 2" so if you assume about R7 to R8 per inch for 2lb closed cell insulation there walls will be R14 to R16. which is pretty much the same for the adventure. the celing on the artic fox will probably be better insulated than the aventure though.

My camper is alumium sided but we are upgrading this year to a fiberflass oneand Im looking at the same two companies plus one or two others. all my trailers and 5th wheel have been fiberflass sided and havent had an issue with them over the last 25 years

[towpro]

some manufacturers have started using 1/4 lauan plywood that is treated to not degenerate when it gets wet.
Example forest river calls it Azdel they use on both inside and outside walls.

I checked north-wood and grand-design, I would expect if they use something different than just plywood they would call it out in advertisements but I did not see it.
but really if you never have a leak it should not delamanate, but I personally have never had a camper that did not leak, even with maintenance 2x per year.