Help - jacks are draining my batteries

[Dupa]

My 2020 camper came with HappiJacs which consume a ton of power from my 2 deep cycle batteries. Once the batteries are drawn down after removing the rig (3000 lb dry weight) from my truck, it's nearly impossible for the generator(s) to get them back up to an acceptable charge while camping so we're really limited in what we can do and for how long. We have plenty of power as long as we leave the camper on the truck, but that's highly undesirable. I have tried loading/unloading with gens running; have tried using power drill to get legs to/from the ground; batteries have been load & spec gravity tested several times and are fine; adding a 3rd battery and/or increasing battery size is not an option due to the size of the battery compartment and no other exterior storage options; the rig's entire electrical system has been diagnosed by a tech and it's fine; contacted the camper manufacturer and they simply shrugged their shoulders and have not offered any insights or solutions; adding solar would be an absolute last resort.

Do any of you experience this? How do you get around it? What input/suggestions do you have for me to solve the power issue? Do any of you have an alternative method for taking the camper off the back of your truck? Anybody tried an impact driver?

[joerg68]

jack motor amperage specs

I was interested in the answer to that myself, but could not locate the info on the web. What I did find: the individual channels on the circuit board have 25A fuses



The actual current used will be a lot lower than that. Most of the time the jack motors are not under a lot of load (extending to the ground, retracting).

[3_tons]

Dupa wrote:

3 tons wrote:
Regardless of the seemingly recent shelf date on your batteries or the voltage readout (at best, a marginal estimator of true battery condition…) using only the principle of Occam's Razor (from afar…) I’d say (from same issue past experience…) the root problem is that your batteries are near dead, yet ostensibly appearing satisfactory per voltage readout - Try as you might, wet-cells can act like this - this very situation is NOT unique or uncommon, and is a precursor to an internal cell or post connector failure.

The fact that the batteries ‘appear’ satisfactory yet are not (“say it ain’t so”!!) is from my perspective the true source of your dreaded frustration…JMHO

3 tons

This would certainly be the easiest solution, but I can't help thinking (perhaps because I'm a little out of my element on some of this) that if they were "near dead" this would/should somehow show up, at least a little bit, on either the load test or the specific gravity (both were fine)?

Specific gravity no, carbon-pile load test ‘maybe’ but not always - this is why in my previous I suggested (assuming you are slightly handy…) acquiring a clamp-on ac-dc type meter of sufficient amperage capacity (say, from HD or similar)…Note that not all clamp-on meters are dc capable, and ‘for dc’ service be sure to follow the meter’s clamp-on directional orientation instructions…Clamping it around one of the battery cables (while under load…) will tell the tale - but first try to locate jack motor amperage specs…Worse case scenario is that you’ll end up with a relatively decent meter for future use, yea!! (or maybe return it - I donno??)…

Note: the meter can also be used to determine receptive charge amps into the battery…No substitute for solid data…

3 tons

[3_tons]

Dupa wrote:

3 tons wrote:
I’m definitely with Bigfootford, but my question is this..Are you using all four jacks simultaneously or just two at a time? Also, it’s not a common practice to use an electric drill unless your batteries are low or failing…Be advised that a Auto-Zone type carbon-pile load test is not always to be relied upon as a true representation of actual loading…If possible you could try measuring battery output (while under load) using a clamp-on ac-dc volt-current meter - make sure that your meter is ‘truly dc current capable’ and of sufficient amperage…A meter of this type is still cheaper than new batteries and should readily tell you what you need to know..

Also, when using meter in ‘dc mode’, be certain to position the meter in the proper current direction - follow carefully the meter’s instructions …

3 tons

I am using all 4 jacks simultaneously. Maybe a little overly simplistic way of thinking about it (and also maybe a little out of my element here) but it seems like the same amount of power/energy is needed to raise/lower the camper, so whether you break it into pieces (1 or 2 at a time) or do it all at the same time (all 4 jacks) shouldn't matter all that much. If I'm wrong, and doing 1 or 2 at a time would help solve my problem, please let me know.

I only asked the question to aid with diagnostics from a distance (available current supplied…). Having said that, my personal preference (due to TC weight) is to operate only two jacks at time per each end (say, inch by inch…) - JMO

Sorry for any confusion 🙂

3 tons

[Dupa]

3 tons wrote:
I’m definitely with Bigfootford, but my question is this..Are you using all four jacks simultaneously or just two at a time? Also, it’s not a common practice to use an electric drill unless your batteries are low or failing…Be advised that a Auto-Zone type carbon-pile load test is not always to be relied upon as a true representation of actual loading…If possible you could try measuring battery output (while under load) using a clamp-on ac-dc volt-current meter - make sure that your meter is ‘truly dc current capable’ and of sufficient amperage…A meter of this type is still cheaper than new batteries and should readily tell you what you need to know..

Also, when using meter in ‘dc mode’, be certain to position the meter in the proper current direction - follow carefully the meter’s instructions …

3 tons

I am using all 4 jacks simultaneously. Maybe a little overly simplistic way of thinking about it (and also maybe a little out of my element here) but it seems like the same amount of power/energy is needed to raise/lower the camper, so whether you break it into pieces (1 or 2 at a time) or do it all at the same time (all 4 jacks) shouldn't matter all that much. If I'm wrong, and doing 1 or 2 at a time would help solve my problem, please let me know.

[Dupa]

wnjj wrote:

bigfootford wrote:
Depending on the weight of your camper the amps needed for a 4500lb camera will be between 35-40 amps to raise the camper..

The OP said the batteries are drained from removing the camper, which makes even less sense. Other than the initial lift off the truck bed, most of the time the motors aren't even loaded when running to remove it.

I over simplified when I wrote that the issue was from removing the camper from the truck. More specifically/accurately, it's the round trip unload/load...then by the time we move to another camp site and unload again, it's toast.

[Dupa]

3 tons wrote:
Regardless of the seemingly recent shelf date on your batteries or the voltage readout (at best, a marginal estimator of true battery condition…) using only the principle of Occam's Razor (from afar…) I’d say (from same issue past experience…) the root problem is that your batteries are near dead, yet ostensibly appearing satisfactory per voltage readout - Try as you might, wet-cells can act like this - this very situation is NOT unique or uncommon, and is a precursor to an internal cell or post connector failure.

The fact that the batteries ‘appear’ satisfactory yet are not (“say it ain’t so”!!) is from my perspective the true source of your dreaded frustration…JMHO

3 tons

This would certainly be the easiest solution, but I can't help thinking (perhaps because I'm a little out of my element on some of this) that if they were "near dead" this would/should somehow show up, at least a little bit, on either the load test or the specific gravity (both were fine)?

[3_tons]

Regardless of the seemingly recent shelf date on your batteries or the voltage readout (at best, a marginal estimator of true battery condition…) using only the principle of Occam's Razor (from afar…) I’d say (from same issue past experience…) the root problem is that your batteries are near dead, yet ostensibly appearing satisfactory per voltage readout - Try as you might, wet-cells can act like this - this very situation is NOT unique or uncommon, and is a precursor to an internal cell or post connector failure.

The fact that the batteries ‘appear’ satisfactory yet are not (“say it ain’t so”!!) is from my perspective the true source of your dreaded frustration…JMHO

3 tons

[wnjj]

bigfootford wrote:
Depending on the weight of your camper the amps needed for a 4500lb camera will be between 35-40 amps to raise the camper..

The OP said the batteries are drained from removing the camper, which makes even less sense. Other than the initial lift off the truck bed, most of the time the motors aren't even loaded when running to remove it.

[Grit_dog]

$20 says it’s not the jacks and it’s weak batteries combined with poor charging performance/technique/past damage due to over/under charging, if the batteries themselves aren’t just shot.
Example. I could start a good starting big block engine probably 10x in a row off of a battery that wouldn’t lift a full size camper all the way up.
Just because they have enough capacity to do some things seemingly fine, doesn’t mean they are fine for their full capacity.

[bigfootford]

Depending on the weight of your camper the amps needed for a 4500lb camera will be between 35-40 amps to raise the camper.. That requires a GOOD battery that has over <> 80% charge.
Easy way to check your battery while under load is with a DVM.
Read the voltage while raising the camper with no shore power.
If you see the voltage drop below <>12.1 then your batter needs to be fully charged and try it again while measuring the voltage!

Another way is to measure the specific gravity of the battery cells if you can get to them.

https://modernsurvivalblog.com/alternative-energy/battery-state-of-charge-chart/

Jim

[ssthrd]

It seems to me that you have checked all of your systems except for the jacks. I am definitely not an electrical expert, but it looks like they are the common denominator. Can you check the draw on each one individually?

You mentioned that you have exclusively used a drill to raise and lower the jacks, and you still have the same problem. Do you unplug the jacks when you use them manually? Do you have something else running all the time without you knowing it?

You have had the batteries load tested, and a shop expert (?) says that your converter is working as it should. What's left to check?

I'll let the ones here way smarter than me respond to my questions.

[3_tons]

I’m definitely with Bigfootford, but my question is this..Are you using all four jacks simultaneously or just two at a time? Also, it’s not a common practice to use an electric drill unless your batteries are low or failing…Be advised that a Auto-Zone type carbon-pile load test is not always to be relied upon as a true representation of actual loading…If possible you could try measuring battery output (while under load) using a clamp-on ac-dc volt-current meter - make sure that your meter is ‘truly dc current capable’ and of sufficient amperage…A meter of this type is still cheaper than new batteries and should readily tell you what you need to know..

Also, when using meter in ‘dc mode’, be certain to position the meter in the proper current direction - follow carefully the meter’s instructions …

3 tons

[bigfootford]

like enblethe said..... Check and make sure your converter is charging your batteries.
My HJ's and 2 group 24 FWC batteries would raise and lower my camper many times before the batteries would not work the HJ's.
My camper weights 4300lbs...
I now only have one AGM battery 100 ah and it will raise and lower a bunch of times before going below the 11 or so volts under load that will shut off the HJ controller.

It takes well over a day for your batteries to fully charge when they are low on charge.
If left low on charge more than a week your NEW batteries will loose capacity. And each time you let them sit for all length of time they will be dead or useless in less than XX months.

Jim.

[2oldman]

Dupa wrote:
it's nearly impossible for the generator(s) to get them back up to an acceptable charge while camping

Okay, then what is this about?

[Dupa]

Thanks everybody for the feedback. I'd like to provide a little extra info for the two most common themes in the responses I have received: converter & batteries.

The converter is a Progressive Dynamics PD4045 Mini Mighty, the link below is the manual. Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to be "right sized" for the task & rig. I had an RV tech test/trouble shoot the entire electrical system to try and help figure this out, and he concluded the same and said that the converter is working as it should. So it seems counter-intuitive and unnecessary to spend the $ to replace it with a bigger/better/newer one? I'm also a little reluctant to rewire/install a bypass switch as some have suggested, as the jack manual specifically say not to do this.


https://www.progressivedyn.com/wp-content/uploads/Support/manuals/110145-English.pdf

The batteries (2 x grp 24 wet cell deep cycle Interstates) were new when I bought the rig (Adventurer 86FB, no slides, 3000 lbs dry, new as well) in May 2021. The date on both batteries is April 2021. The terminal connections are good, fluid levels in all the cells are good, so is specific gravity, and they handled load tests perfectly. I checked these myself, also had RV tech check them and took them to Interstate dealer twice. Every test/measurement says that they are fine, so it seems counter-intuitive and unnecessary to spend the $ to replace them?

This is not a new issue. It's been happening since I got the camper in May 2021. I always leave for a camping trip with full batteries; we stay plugged into shore power when at home between trips during the camping season. I always load onto the truck at least 24 hours before we hit the road to ensure the batteries are topped off after loading. I've checked the charge plug from truck bed to camper, and it's fine. When we arrive at camp site, I unload right away using cordless drill to get the legs to the ground then using jacks from there (with engine running and gens running). Sometimes we load back onto the truck a few days later to move camping places. Gens are 2 new Honda 2000's and run great, I usually run them for 2 hours both in the morning and night. Sometimes the issue is a little better/worse depending on conditions and where/how long we camp. We live and primarily camp in Colorado, where temps can be 80 during the day but wake up the next morning in the 30's and need to run the furnace.