Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[blt2ski]

One of the things one has to keep in mind, this thread has been going for 2 yrs or so. back then diesel was 1.40, gas 1.60. Doing the same numbers jwc did, the diesel comes out ahead. Using the fuel cost numbers today, gas is ahead. There will probably never be a end all be all correct answer to this debate! One can only look at the current economic situation and buy accordingly, and if your projections prove wrong, oh well!

Like myself, I was really toying with an ext cab SB GM when I bough my 05. I did not like the trans GM offered. So went CC DW diesel. I get the same mileage as quoted by jwc. If GM had the 6sp hydromatic, I'd have a 6.0 gas in the driveway, and cost per mile would be less than my current diesel. Right now, it is not worth trading in, soooooooo. Keep moving on, know at the time 3 yrs ago, I made the correct decision for what I did at the time. If buying today, decision would be different!

marty

[ponie]

You have to lend it to a guy that knows what he is talking about because he is living it every day.

I think you can call it truth about the diesel. They cost more to operate on a daily basis. Add in oil its way more. The claims that they get over 20mpg is just that. A claim! No way do they produce even 15mpg when you work them.

As far as power goes:

Recently some diesel owners have gone back to stock. They honestly admit that it has cost more to repair as a result of overheating on heavy sustained load. Its best to leave them stock. Pull an RV with them during the life of the truck and they will produce at or below 15mpg. They do not produce peak torq and HP at highway speeds so you are relegated to the slow lane when the hills come rolling on. Oil changes and fuel cost absorb any advantage they may have over big gas motors (8.1Liter GM) at resale.

[DoubleWrap]

jwc94 wrote:
I have to say these types of threads are entertaining. Here are some numbers for you to chew on. Based on identical fleet owned trucks at 100,000 miles. 3/4 chevys with 6.0 gas. Average mps 12 equals 8333.33 gallon. Times price per gallon today at my local station of $3.15 equals 26249.99. Same truck with duramax diesel 15.2 mpg with fuel prices locally at 4.10. equals 26973.68. Now thats 723.69 higher just for the diesel. And then the upfront cost which is a wash because when you sell it you dont get it all back. Yes you get some but not all. If you do your one of the lucky ones. Now I know the diesel side is going to say I get 20 mpg. Good for you! I did this back in the day of driving a diesel dodge and not actually using the truck for work. But in the real work world our fleet of over 30 mixed dodge, chevy and ford trucks only the dodge gets over 15 occasionally. The ford and chevy is usually around 15 or lower.Yes you can extend the service on a diesel but when you compare $23 oil changes to $75 you have to really stretch it. Thats a $1040 dollar difference. Im not trying to bash anyone or cut down the numbers they put out there but this is what I have seen operating our fleet of over 350 units. Oh and what do I own a diesel chevy. I also have oil changed at 5000 miles on all pickups. And I watch fuel since our monthly bill is over $55000.00

Excellent information, thanks for the detail and summary, really helps one put things into perspective.

[jwc94]

I have to say these types of threads are entertaining. Here are some numbers for you to chew on. Based on identical fleet owned trucks at 100,000 miles. 3/4 chevys with 6.0 gas. Average mps 12 equals 8333.33 gallon. Times price per gallon today at my local station of $3.15 equals 26249.99. Same truck with duramax diesel 15.2 mpg with fuel prices locally at 4.10. equals 26973.68. Now thats 723.69 higher just for the diesel. And then the upfront cost which is a wash because when you sell it you dont get it all back. Yes you get some but not all. If you do your one of the lucky ones. Now I know the diesel side is going to say I get 20 mpg. Good for you! I did this back in the day of driving a diesel dodge and not actually using the truck for work. But in the real work world our fleet of over 30 mixed dodge, chevy and ford trucks only the dodge gets over 15 occasionally. The ford and chevy is usually around 15 or lower.Yes you can extend the service on a diesel but when you compare $23 oil changes to $75 you have to really stretch it. Thats a $1040 dollar difference. Im not trying to bash anyone or cut down the numbers they put out there but this is what I have seen operating our fleet of over 350 units. Oh and what do I own a diesel chevy. I also have oil changed at 5000 miles on all pickups. And I watch fuel since our monthly bill is over $55000.00

[8_1_Van]

I Found The Reason for the fact that diesel costs substantially more than gasoline.

ULSD regulations.

Thanks to EPA regs, all middle distillates (No.1 (aka kerosene), No. 2, Jet A, JP-8, etc) have to meet the 25 ppm standard for sulfur.

The common means of getting sulfur out of oil is to run it through a hydrodesulfurization process (aka the Klaus Train). Hydrogen is bubbled through the oil under conditions favoring the sulfur reacting with the hydrogen to make hydrogen sulfide. An amine removes the hydrogen sulfide and a recycling process removes the sulfur out as yellow powder which is sold. Each pass through the Klaus Train removes about 90% of the sulfur.

Back in the 80s, crude was passed through the Klaus Train once to remove sulfur. Super-sour crude (such as from Venezuela) got run through twice. That resulted in a No. 2 with 5,000 ppm sulfur. Then the low-sulfur requirements of the early 90s came along and that forced the refiners to run refined No.2 through the Klaus Train again. This was uncharted territory running product through the Klaus Train and it resulted in a big change in the properties of diesel fuel. A lot of diesels had all their rubber goods attacked by the low sulfur diesel. Mine cost me $700 to fix. At any rate, this resulted in a No. 2 diesel fuel with <500 ppm sulfur. To get the product down more than another order of magnitude, the refineries have to run the middle distillates through the Klaus Train TWICE more. A total of four passes.

The Klaus Train has become one busy process. Thanks to other EPA regs (New Source Review, 40 CFR 60, 40 CFR 61, and 40 CFR 63) nobody has built a new Klaus Train since Jimmy Carter was President.

Houston, we have a bottleneck.

Only so much middle distillate can be forced through, so the supply is short enough to force up the price, well above that of gasoline which does not require this ultra low level of sulfur.

Good ol’ EPA. Done it to us again.

ULSD regulations

[djdave33]

Thats a sad sight..$1.06 more per gallon.....

[8_1_Van]

My local station charges $1.06 more for diesel !

[Paul_Clancy]

Sooo much of the price argument is silly. I just crossed the border from Canada to Washington and went from diesel being quite a bit cheaper than gas to it being more expensive. Same day - same oil cos. Makes no sense.

[8_1_Van]

The nationwide average price of gasoline continued to head lower Thursday, according to a survey conducted for the motorist group AAA.

The average price for regular unleaded fell slightly to $3.275 a gallon, down from $3.279 Wednesday, according to AAA's Web site. That's down a full penny from the record high of $3.285 reported on Sunday. The average price-per-gallon of diesel fuel continued to rise, hitting a record high of $4.033.

Regular was $3.032 on average at this time last month and $2.564 a year ago, according to the AAA. Diesel was $3.454 a month ago, and $2.744 at this time last year.

Prices in California and Hawaii continued to lead the country - drivers in both states paid about $3.63 per gallon. Prices in Alaska and Oregon remained above $3.40 a gallon, and gas rose above $3.50 in Washington.

New Jersey continued to have the the lowest prices for gas - drivers paid $3.054 a gallon on average. Missouri and Minnesota residents also pay less than $3.10 a gallon.

The fuel price survey was conducted for AAA by Oil Price Information Service

Gas prices edge lower diesel fuel continued to rise

[bluenote]

07hemi4me wrote:

bluenote wrote:

gm seller wrote:
I paid $3.43 a gallon for gas today and Diesel fuel is at $4.09 none of the new Diesel trucks get good enough mileage to make up for that.

Actually, this isn't true. I've owned and operated both and would still see a fuel savings at the prices you are quoting. However, diesel prices sure are sky-high right now.

You also have an older diesel without all of the Emissions******on it, you are getting alto better mileage, but the newer one are not.

The Duramax diesel came out in 2001 and met most of the current emissions standards from the get go. It is not an "older" diesel. We have friends with an 06 Chevy and they are getting close to what I get with mine.

[PSDExcursion]

As the sulfur content of diesel fuel goes down, it`s costing more money to buy some.

Diesel fuel prices are above four dollars a gallon in North Dakota. They`re much higher than gasoline prices, and it used to be the other way around.

North Dakota Department of Mineral Resources director Lynn Helms says new federal low-sulfur standards for diesel fuel that`s used in over-the-road vehicles have caused the prices to rise.

Refineries needed to install new equipment, and more oil is needed to produce a gallon of low-sulfur fuel.

Helms says there`s also the Europe factor. He says there`s heavy demand for diesel fuel there because many more road vehicles use it -- and there`s an oversupply of gasoline.

KFYR-TV

[07hemi4me]

bluenote wrote:

gm seller wrote:
I paid $3.43 a gallon for gas today and Diesel fuel is at $4.09 none of the new Diesel trucks get good enough mileage to make up for that.

Actually, this isn't true. I've owned and operated both and would still see a fuel savings at the prices you are quoting. However, diesel prices sure are sky-high right now.

You also have an older diesel without all of the Emissions******on it, you are getting alto better mileage, but the newer one are not.

[the_old_curmudg]

AntiqFreq wrote:
I sure wish diesel only costs $.20 cents more than regular gas here.

Our regular today is $3.25 and diesel is $3.75...........= $.50 cents more.

And it will only get worse! but, I still love my diesel!!

Jo

You're luckier than some. This morning the gas stations around the corner had regular at $3.09, $4.09 for diesel. 2 days ago diesel was $3.99/gallon.

[PSDExcursion]

Remember when buying and operating a diesel-engine vehicle was a good way to save fuel costs? Not anymore.
In fact, operating a diesel-engine vehicle of any kind is more expensive then an engine using regular gasoline. Case in point, a listener pointed out that the price of diesel at XtraMart in North Adams on Monday was a whopping $4.26; it's $4.21 in Great Barrington and Pittsfield.

Besides private diesel-powered vehicles, think of how many larger trucks, tractor-trailers, school buses and even locomotive engines are powered with diesel fuel. Compared to previous months, the federal Energy Information Administration shows the price of diesel spiking sharply higher since February and more than double what it was last year.



The average price of diesel fuel was usually lower than gasoline until a few years ago, when worldwide demand began rising. In the United States, the transition to low-sulfur diesel fuel has affected production and distribution costs and federal excise tax on diesel fuel is 6 cents higher per gallon than the tax on gasoline.

According to an Associated Press report, the American Trucking Association is calling it a "crisis situation" and is asking Congress and the Bush administration to increase the availability of diesel fuel any way possible. The trucking industry is expecting to spend $135 billion in fuel costs this year, compared to $112.6 billion last year.

No wonder the cost of transportation and goods and services that use diesel-fuel vehicles are going sky high.

Up, Up and Away

[kudos383]

rsh_757 wrote:
I like my money as much as the next guy, but I am not quitting a diesel in lieu of a gas rig just because fuel prices are higher. I never bought into the old "it will save me money" deal anyways. I just like the way it works as a truck engine. I have a Honda for anything else.

Well said,I love the diesel's i used to have,but went back an got the 8.1 and am happy with my result's.