Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[Gadget99]

My choice was easy...diesel. After a lot of looking around my wife and I decided on an Alpenlite Portofino with a 16,000# GVWR. Since we also wanted a crew cab and 4WD there was only one pickup truck rated to handle that much weight and have a safety margin of more than a hundred pounds or so including for the pin weight. That was the Ford F-350 DRW diesel with the Tow Boss package. BTW, they're both on order and I just can't wait to try them out!

[Momma]

My $.02 worth. I could not afford to get the Chevy Diesel but wanted enough engine to do the job with what I had to pull. Getting the 8.1 to me was not a option, I felt if I were to get an engine with that many horses, I might as well get the diesel and bite the bullet. But since money was an issue, I settled for the 6.0 I do know that if I ever win the lottery i will get the diesel and be happy, happy happy. i love my TV now and it does a great job. I just don't try to drive up a 6% hill as fast as I do on the flat.

[Hap_Trails]

Hello to all, Here it goes When your done fueling I hope you wash you your hands and hope you dont forget. Like some other members I drove diesels for 32 years. I drove because I got PAID for that. When you recreate you use gas, why common sence certainly. Diesel has one thing over gas and that is breaking enertia, Remember if you want to spend $40,000.00 more for that feature with losses in every other area. Its your money. You all have a safe season. Haapy Trails.

[TitanChief]

Hello! 1st. Time posting,i'm really enjoying the site and info. Just wanted to share some of my info on the v10 and the diesel topic.
I own a 2003 f350 lariat LE, 4x4, v10, dually, Pioneer Avic80 navigation system, xm radio, 30k hidden hitch goosneck/5th wheel, 51ft. stepdeck, hauling heavy equipment and a 20ft. bumper pull motorcycle trailer. When towing, I am always around 10 mpg. For some reason i think i was getting 11-12 mpg. when i first purchased. Soon to be supercharged! Well i like the v10 because there is no "cold winter plug ins", alot less maintenance, cheaper oil changes, nice and quiet, and its an equivalent gas motor compared to the diesel,it runs a couple hundred rpm's higher, I have no problems pulling hills, I don't like slowing down much neither am i looking to race and outrun every diesel :W I'm running 84k miles, 1 water pump, and one rad. flush, oil changes every 7k. that was all that was needed since I purchased this truck back in Aug. 2002 w/0 miles, i'll change the spark plugs soon i would rather not run the 100,000 even tho' it will hold i think im close enough. I'll run this v10 until I can afford to buy a f650.

My v10 is good to me and will produce plenty more good miles and work, I would recommend a v10 to anyone who asked.

If i were to purchase another f350 it would most likely be a v10, especially the new 3 valve w/5 speed trans. that has to be nice.

Thanks!

titanchief

[agteacher]

I've been pressing Dodge for a release date on the Durnago with a diesel and keep getting the same answer. Don't know when it or if it will be released. The unit was tested as a hybrid over 5 years ago and got 50+ mpg with the same or increased towing capacities. The Columbus Dispatch did an article on the vehicle and it got good reviews. I know the unit was tested as a friend of mine drove the vehicle. If Dodge does come out with this, I know I'd buy one.

[SHammy]

We would have bought a MH with diesel engine, if we could have afforded one. We have a diesel car, a VW Jetta, that gets 52 mph and we use it as a tow car. We plan to buy all future vehicles, cars, trucks, or MH with diesel engines.

[Lee_from_LA]

No, I haven't read all the posts. I will eventually but, for now, it's just too much information taking up too much time.

I will be buying a new vehicle in the next few months and I've been planning on a diesel. But I'm really beginning to wonder if it's a wise choice given my circumstances.

I have about 6 more years until retirement so I need a vehicle that can carry me back and forth to work (about 2 miles one way). That's a lot of short distance driving, especially for a diesel. My current towing is limited by time (as well as money) to long weekend trips and, at most, two weeks vacation a year. Our trailer is small but we intend to get a larger, heavier one in the next couple of years.

A diesel is tempting, especially for the fuel economy and low end power. We love going out West and those mountains are kind of steep. But, given the cost of the diesel option and the use the truck will get other than as a tow vehicle, I'm beginning to think a Ford V10 might be a better choice.

[bradcliffe]

I started with a SB gas, it worked but it was hard work! Found a good deal on a used Duramax/Allison, loved it, totalled it less than a year later (not towing luckily). When I bought the diesel, fuel was about .30 cheaper than UL, since then it's gone from .30 more back down to about .20 more. I decided to replace it with a used 8.1 with 6 spd manual - $10,000 less than it would have taken to replace the used Duramax. I love the BB, has as much torque as some older diesels. I like the 6spd manual - put her in 6th or 5th depending on the terrain and don't worry about the downshifting up hills. To me, that has been the biggest difference in the trucks - transmisssion, more gears the better. The SB had enough HP but the tranny sucked. The Allison downshifting was incredible. Now I'm looking for a 8.1 with the Allison and a 3.73 rear end. But yes, if you can afford the diesel, you can't beat that low end torque.

[markeheiden]

I do have one major gripe about diesel. I have on a number of occasions when driving a diesel been nearly out of fuel and desparately going from station to station to find diesel at 2:00 AM. This has never happened to me while in my gas Tow vehicle. This used to be even a worst problem, but in the last several years with the explosion in diesel personal trucks there are more stations with No.2.

[scrity]

LDUpNorth,

Good analysis of gas vs diesel, but I don't think it's fair to run a break even analysis on buying a diesel unless when you sell that diesel truck it is worth the same as the same gas truck. From what I can tell, everything being equal, you should recoup much of what was spent for the diesel engine when you go to sell it. In other words, the truck you paid a $7000 premium to get a diesel engine will probably be $4-5000 more than the same gas truck. Right? So now, instead of a 100,000 mile breakeven, it would only be 25-40,000. I would imagine when the TV gets in the 200,000 mile range the two vehicles are similarly priced, but by then the diesel should have paid for itself with better mileage.

[bluenote]

Bert,

The numbers for the "baby" DMax would be around the same for the LB7 Duramax, which of course, are lower than the LLY Duramax. It's rumored that GM will boost the numbers for the v8 version soon also, so they would likely be seperated by a bit in power numbers.

[LDUpNorth]

I think the reason diesel vs. gas is such a hot topic for debate for us is thanks to the automotive manufacturers, who have already found the silver lining in this issue. It's a big money-maker for them. They have aleady crunched the numbers and made it a 50-50 issue for us.

If your on either extreme of the issue it's and open and shut case. For example, if you're retired and 50%+ of your tow-vechicle's mileage is while towing, diesel makes sense. You'll probably pay for the difference in purchase price in only a few years.

If on the other hand you're tow vehicle is used primarily for commuting to work and you never travel very far with your trailer, you will never make up the difference, so gas makes sense.

If you're some where in the middle, like I am, you work for a living, you take one or two long distance vacations per year and you want to get the best bang for your buck ... it's a crap-shoot. Sure diesel will save you money in the long run ... maybe 7 or more years down the road. That's how long it will probably take to recoup the purchase price difference.

But the real question is, why does a 2500 series vehicle with a diesel cost you $7000 or more above a 1500 with a big gas engine? Simple, because at that price point the automotive manufacturers make the biggest profit. If 90% of us were buying diesel, it would be 'too cheap' and hence a potential profit-maker for the automotive manufacturers. The price would have to go up.

Next time your shopping for a new tow-vehicle (like I did last year) you will find yourself asking these questions. Why can't I get a diesel on my 1500? Why is a 2500 so much more expensive (it's basically the same truck with an upgraded suspension)? Why can't I get the same manufacturer's incentive deal on a 2500 that I can get on a 1500? Answer: $$$ profit for the manufacturer.

[mork]

I have read many ( to many ? ) posts related to gas vs. diesel - it would seem to me that most of the posts turn into a competition or vigorous justification/rationalization of why mine is best -- my current tow vehicle is powered by a 460 cubic inch banks assisted gas engine -- I have never needed/wanted more power when towing -- I have on occasion however wished i had purchased the diesel -- this usually happens when I am filling the fuel tank at a freeway super station of some sort & when the wildly fluctuating price of fuel favors the diesel owners -- it should be clear that both engines gas/diesel do a credible job when properly matched with the balance of the drive train -- most people woud probably be happy with either if properly matched to load -- key considerations would I believe be : single or multi use vehicle - weight - cost - m.p.g. -
most typical towing conditions - mountains , hills , flats , elevation , temp. miles towing vs.miles driving unloaded - I do not believe that either engine is clearly superior in all instances & at all times but rather both do a fine job

[markeheiden]

Wicked long thread here!. I started with an 82' Suburban non-turbo diesel so I would be smog exempt here in CA no matter what I did. I towed my jeep ONCE with it and yanked it out. (Dangerous Slow!) It's all about the turbos, which by the way a turbo gasser wins the power game hands down.
My wallet prevents me from buying a newer rig w/modern turbo diesel so I junkyarded a Vortec 454 and 4L80E in. With 3" exhaust, power module and cold air intake, the power is incredible. I tow 19,000 GVW and nearly stay with my partners 6.0 PS Diesel, same weight under all conditions. I do get 1/2 the mileage towing, but I would have to spend $400 every single month in fuel to make up the difference of a new truck payment. I figure a couple years from now, I'll go find a used diesel, but in the mean time, I just pay to play.

[BertP]

Thanks for the update, Chris. I knew that you could but I have to admit I am a bit surprised that they are taking that route. It makes you wonder what is in store for the current DMax. It really doesn't make a lot of sense to have two engines with the same numbers unless one is a lighter duty verion. I know that I have seen with some manufacturers (sorry, I don't remember whiich ones I was looking at) that raised the rpm at which their smaller diesels were generating their power to around 4000 rpm and sometimes higher. But that would drive the torque numbers down for a given HP. If this new V6 is to have the same torque numbers as the V8, then the rpm numbers will match as well. If true, this will be interesting to watch.

Bert