Considering another Pop Up BUT

[Mike_Up]

I was considering another pop up but my wife demands some features. 1st a toilet, 2nd a TV for rain days and late night, 3rd a Freezer for pizzas and other things, and 4th above knee kitchen item storage.

Jayco is completely out. In fact there's no storage on their 1208SC at all. No silverware, towel, or pot/pan storage. Then there's no food storage or even a place to put a 28 bottle case of water.

We don't want a Highwall as cost is overpriced.

I've yet to find a freezer in a Pop Up other than a Highwall, and little cabinet room to bring a stand alone compressor portable freezer. The only pop ups that offer overhead storage are Forest River in their Rockwood campers, and don't have any competent dealer service shops to even deal with preventive maintenance or even warranty repairs.

There's no Coachmen/Viking or Palomino dealers within a 2.5 hour drive. And there's no Jayco or Starcraft pop up Floorplans I'd even consider. I actually hate the Jayco pop ups the worst. They have no storage at all, have interior lift system, table heights and benchs are much lower than any other competitor and feel child like, and uncomfortable.

So the only dealers that even sell pop ups near us that I like are Forest River and they don't have any service techs to repair anything and the other being Jayco, that I won't consider. I also had horrible experiences with Forest River Rockwood pop ups, service, and customer service that makes me uncomfortable even considering them.

I was happy to see that the Hot water heaters in most have been upgraded to DSI but the thetford cassette toilet still are not tied into the water system's holding tank and pump.

They must have water poured in to the toilets own small fresh water tank, through a funnel from a portable gallon tank. Then you must empty that fresh water from the toilet before traveling or as thetford says, damage may happen. Why haven't they put in a more up to date toilet system yet?

Either I keep my travel trailer or go back to tenting if the need arises.

The Forest River I was considering was the 2716G Premier but was put off when I saw the toilet fill wasn't tied into the water system!

The 2716G has enough cabinet top space and storage that we need and a stop to put a TV that can be viewed from the seated positions but I don't want to deal with a porti potty when I paying for a toilet. At price of $8k when I was by myself, that was OK, but not at prices of $13K when I have a family that will use it often.

Are there any pop ups that have a toilet tied into the water system other than highwalls?

[jerem0621]

rbpru wrote:
People like to point out set up, take down, wet canvas, etc as the reason for a TT.

I have always considered this part of camping and the price you pay for the convenience of easy towing, low maintenance and ease of storage.

To me the real TT advantages are a pantry, clothes closet, a bed you exit without crawling over your partner and a full bath. A bit more important when you are older.

Little older thread but I would like to point out that the newer pups are coming with a Sunbrella type material that has more in common with an awning than a tent.

What that means is that there is no soaking wet canvas...the Sunbrella material sheds the wet. To the point that you can hit it from the inside after it stops raining and knock most of the water off...upon take down you can towel dry the material befor you put it up.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[mileshuff]

Years ago we were in the same situation. The highsided were overly priced and didn't offer much weight savings over a hybrid. We opted for a Hybrid and found a great deal on a new one. Had all the features of a TT, freezer, toilet plumbed to black tank, stove, microwave, TV, shower etc. but still had two tent covered queen beds like a pop up. Weight on ours was about 5,000lbs fully loaded. Towed easily with our 2004 Durango. It was more than a simple standard height popup but way better value than a high sided at about the same price with far more features.

[rbpru]

People like to point out set up, take down, wet canvas, etc as the reason for a TT.

I have always considered this part of camping and the price you pay for the convenience of easy towing, low maintenance and ease of storage.

To me the real TT advantages are a pantry, clothes closet, a bed you exit without crawling over your partner and a full bath. A bit more important when you are older.

[manualman]

It sure is nice having the pup sit safely and quietly with no needs or issues in the 3rd garage bay while we live the rest of our lives. Until it's time to go camping or do one of the few annual maintenance tasks, the camper has zero influence on what we do with our lives. It's just plain ready when we want it and invisible when we don't.

Once I figure out how to build the lift system to hold a Laser II sailboat and road trailer hanging in mid-air OVER the camper inside the garage, life will REALLY be good! Oh, and scrape up the money to buy 'em...

[HRcampers]

Mike Up,

Sounds like you and I are/were contemplating the same thing. I would like to downsize because of the ease of something smaller to store in the garage instead of the back and forth to storage lots like we have been doing for the last 20 plus years.

We have been looking at A-frame hard sides. RV show coming up in 2 weeks in our area which we plan to attend.

My wife says she'd go for the downsize, but I'm really not convinced. As for me, I'd do it in a heart beat. We started in a Pop up 25 years ago and I still miss the ease of owning one. We shall see :h

[Mike_Up]

rbpru wrote:

You can get a lot of almost equal features in a PUP or you can look for a used Hi-LO or Trailmaner. But, you start approaching the price of a TT rather quickly.

The pop ups I am looking at, cost the same or more than what my TT was brand new only a few years ago.

The highwall Rockwood HW276 is a 14' box and closer to what we need but it still lacks so much compared to our TT. Local dealer has it for $14K with Air Conditioner, w/o tax, w/o title and such. Bought from them before and they are as cheap as you'll find them.

The Jayco pop up in the same floorplan is a joke. It has so much wasted space with no storage anywhere and you need a ladder to climb up to the dinette. Jayco has the worst pop up designs anywhere. Can't believe they let them go that bad as 10 years ago and even older, were much better. They also charge such high MSRP prices.

SO even paying more than my TT, I can't get close to the TT's features. But that was Okay. All I wanted was about 2 hanging canvas pantries and a hanging canvas wardrobe. I also wanted a freezer like the Rockwood HW276, and the storage.

The Rockwood HW276 would probably actually work, but I don't know if I could talk the wife in paying more, and having much less. If the HW276 was around $11K, it would be much more doable. Also, the only dealer is that dealer within 200 miles, and that dealers service department is about as bad as it comes. In fact the 'want ad' for service techs left me in disbelief. They are not even requiring any certifications or anything, just want 'know how' and maybe some experience. I don't want to have to beg another dealer to fix it, like the first time I had too, and then have to drive 200 miles to get simpler things done that I can not do.

In fact, this dealer is the only one within an hour and half drive in either direction, that is even selling pop ups. Other dealers just have stopped stocking them on the lot. You can buy one unseen and unheard, and order it. But I don't like surprises and I don't buy anything without seeing and test driving first.

But if I were to do it, the HW276 looks like a good choice.

[manualman]

Moot point for Mike, but we handle the utensils by keeping them all in a large flat Tupperware box. It rides on the floor by the swung down galley and upon setup at camp, it sits on a folding table OUTSIDE the pup. We eat outside unless the weather is awful, so it's MORE convenient to have it all at hand out there. Same goes for the dish drainer, dish soap (not bear country), dish pans and a bunch of other things exclusively used outside.

[rbpru]

It sounds like the OP wants TT features in a PUP.

As Manualman pointed out camping in a PUP and RVing in a TT are not the same.

You can get a lot of almost equal features in a PUP or you can look for a used Hi-LO or Trailmaner. But, you start approaching the price of a TT rather quickly.

The DW and I could not make up our mind which way to go so we rented the size TT we thought we would want for a week and drove to the Ozarks. Learned a lot very quickly.

I still have the PUP because it has sleeping space for all the grandkids and I like the camping feel of it. However, the majority of our siteseeing travel is with the TT.

[Mike_Up]

manualman wrote:
Popups are inevitably a camping experience, not an RVing experience. If your wife doesn't like camping, there's not much cure for it.

I like to say that if people ENJOY tent camping, but desire a better night's sleep and a few more conveniences, a popup is perfect. If people hate tent camping, a popup ain't going to be enough better to make them happy.

It's also why I think the pup manufacturers have made a huge market share mistake in focusing all their marketing on loaded luxo-models. Those aren't going to sell in enough numbers to work. A pup has to be an upgrade to a tent, not a poor man's RV. It's a fantastic tent, but a lousy RV. Market to those who LIKED their tents, but just want a LITTLE more comfort.

I have to agree. My wife hates tent camping and hated (to a lesser degree) pop up camping.

While not a person who really likes camping, she makes do as long as she has some comforts like we've had in the Jay Flight 19BH and the newer 26BH.

The Starcraft 2406 was not her thing, with the hot bunkends from the sun beating down, to bending down for everything. The lack of privacy was just icing on the cake but she made do even with a curtain covered bathroom. Now that our family is bigger, her demands are greater in what she must have in a camper. I just don't think I can find a pop up that will make her happy like the Jay Flights.

[Mike_Up]

K9Sailors wrote:
Back when we had a PU, my solution for above knee storage was to build a two piece light weight wood stack cabinet / pantry. It was placed above the refrig when set up, where the outside stove would sit during travel. Underway, the cabinet sections nested together, designed to fit in a space on the floor. This solution made for plentiful and easy access to food / cooking items.

Yeh, I had a plastic one with 4 drawers that sat on top of the cabinets. That is good for smaller things but we usually have all of our Jay Flights upper cabinets filled with food, and paper plates and plastic utensils. Our Starcraft 2406 Pop Up had a hanging pantry that was filled with stuffed plus had stuff stacked on top between the ceiling and it. That still wasn't enough. Forest River has a bigger hanging pantry and even a hanging wardrobe but it's dependent on floorplan.

While Forest River isn't what I would consider a reliable camper after all my troubles with my previously pop up, they still have some features that others don't offer like storage in the sink/stove swing up, the hanging canvas cabinets like I said, and more drawers in what would be considered unusable space. So it would be this make as others just won't work.

After weighing the pluses and minuses, I've decided to just keep my Jay Flight as it really is our favorite floorplan out of any trailer for our family. Add in all the storage of this trailer and it's perfect for us. I was just thinking of downsizing to make life a bit easier in other regards.

[Mike_Up]

jmcgsd wrote:
Mike_up, have you looked at the latest generation of small truck campers? There are some now that your F150 may handle.

Take a look at Northern Lite, Capri, Lance 650. Also might want to post a question on the TC forum.

Good luck.
Joe

I've looked, even the so called 1/2 ton truck campers still need a 3/4 ton. The ones that could be used are less featured than standard small pop ups.

Thanks though.

[ata3001]

Keep what you have & just let the miles on the truck accumulate & don't worry about it as long as it's not nickel & dimeing you to death. Trucks will give several hundred thousand miles when properly maintained, even when used for towing.

[bondebond]

For easily configured storage above knees, look at the plastic drawer units. Granted, we have a highwall that fits nicely in the garage and got it used so it was $7k a few years back (not sure why you're ruling them out), but here is an example of how to gain above knee storage.





I had looked at making a wooden platform to go across the top of the plastic shelves so there would be a level, stable place to put a TV, etc but we opted to not have TV at all. Different strokes for different folks.

If you're looking at frozen pizzas, even the 3.7 cu ft refrigerator in mine that has a freezer cannot hold a pizza as it is not deep enough. You'd have to fold the pizza in half. It's great for making ice or having small tubs of ice cream and popsicles.

Otherwise, my highwall has everything you've listed as a want or need. The real porcelain toilet has an onboard holding tank that you empty at the dump station and is supplied by the fresh water holding tank and pump or city water. The one thing I wish it had was an onboard gray water holding tank. Still have to use a blue tote for that.
It has a cable TV jack on the inside and out. Plenty of full height counter space, too much storage that we don't fully use and all the comforts of home.

My V8 4Runner pulls it just fine and I can still position it by hand in the shop to get it over against the wall.
It did take me a while to find it.

[fmattox73]

Currently: 2013 GMC Terrain V6 Automatic(Select Shift) Towing 2900 lbs
Type II Frame mounted Tow setup. (1 1/4")
Tongue weight 300 lbs
Rated at 3500 lbs/350 Tongue
2010 Palomino 4120 w/12 foot box.
I have installed Electric Brakes and a P2 Controller.
I use a friction type sway control.
I'll probably sell it if I buy:

I'm thinking about a 2016 Coachman Clipper 17QB from a local dealer (AZ)
Lists at 17,000 Offered at 14,900
I'm going to have to change to a Type III hitch setup (2")
The listed hitch weight is 298 lbs, + Battery and Propane
(It's questionable if I need a WDH)
It has all the stuff that you (and DW) are looking for.
UVW=2731 - GVWR=3518 - CCC=770
33 Gal FW, 25 Gal each Grey and Black
Overhead storage, small fridge w small Freezer
Might be worth looking at.