BD20 in 6.7 Cummins

[Espee]

07' Dodge Ram manual says NO fuel over 5 percent Bio-Diesel. Favorite station in SoCal has now put an orange sticker on the pump notifying fuel contains up to 20 percent biodiesel, and have noticed the stickers on a few others recently.

The question is:
What are you other DODGE owners with non-fleet trucks from 2007.5 thru 2013 doing in regards to using this fuel?

What mods have you done to your truck to get by on BD20?
No mods and been using BD20 intermittently for years / or using it all the time? ...wanting to hear from you.
Thanks

[SweetLou]

wanderingbob wrote:
If my tank is half full of regular fuel when I fill up with B-20 does that equal B-10 ?

Yes it does

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

No answers to the questions. That is very telling.

[Wild_Card]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Wild Card wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Wild Card wrote:

goducks10 wrote:
FWIW I've ran a few partial (1/2-3/4) tanks of B20 in my 12 CTD. Never had any issues. That was a couple years ago. IMO I don't see how filling a partially empty tank with some B20 would make a difference. I won't run it 100% of the time even with the CAT dual filter setup I have.
What I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around is what exactly does Cummins think will happen if I do run B20 100% of the time. Is it an injector, HPFP, etc problem? If I were deleted then it certainly wouldn't be an EGR-DPF problem.
I've even asked the local Ram service guy and he didn't have an answer either. Seems that no one knows for sure.

You can run it with good filtration. 13 and newer has better filtration the 07.5-12 models. That is all. Put filter kit and your good.

Not even close.

Bio is VERY hard on oil. Ever seen the oil change schedule when Bio is used? Check it out.

Bio is also very hydroscopic. If some companies put some magic juice in there Bio, water will go right through even the best of filters.
Have any idea on what water can do to a HPFP or a set of injectors?

Years ago a diesel mechanic friend of mine went to a Bio company that had three of their delivery trucks that would not run. He pulled the injectors and found snot all of the tips of them. He had to clean and replace some of the parts in the fuel system to get them running again.

Run it if you want. I will never run anymore than 5%. I pulled into several stations up in Oregon last week. I left when I found out their diesel was over 5% Bio.

Nahh..I am pretty dang on close.


And like I said...it's filtration. Your buddy with the snot on the injectors, well if they had better filters that problem would not be there...same with water.

If your close and only need good filters why does every single engine maker have maximum on B fuel? Why not just put good filters on the engine and say run what you want?

Why does every engine maker cut oil change schedule way down if you run Bio?

You must know more than every single engine maker on this planet! :R

BTW, my buddy was a 30 year diesel mechanic that worked on the Bio company's delivery trucks. They were running their own Bio fuel. :B

You have alot to say about nothing my friend. I would suggest that you don't waste your key strokes in this thread and type the question into a Google search. From there read the diesel heads threads on the topic. You will quickly find the do and dont, the why and why not of bio.

Educate yourself please. Stop with the running off at the mouth...the ignorance is sickening.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

goducks10 wrote:

jus2shy wrote:
Biodiesel tends to not combust as completely as your typical diesel fuel. So you can have a potential fuel washing issue in the cylinders, especially as you climb above B20. So fuel dilution is a concern with Biodiesel. Especially with the post event injection that newer engines employ for DPF burn-off.

B20 is usually used as a maximum as many lines and seals may start having compatibility issues when you go above that. Bio has solvent properties and can swell seals that are not compatible, along with loosening all the soot and crud in a fuel system (hence clogged filters when you first run any bio). But low concentrations of Bio actually keeps a fuel system clean.

But Bio has the benefit of re-introducing lubricity that was lost when Sulfur was removed. To get the full benefit of the lubricity of Bio, you only need a low blend of B2. So I have no issues running B5 (which is pretty much state mandated in Washington and Oregon, not sure about our brothers to the east).

Double edged sword. I'll run B5 any day of the week. I'll run B20 in a pinch. I won't go above B20. Also, blends of B6 to B20 and below have pretty well defined cleanliness limits and such through the ASTM. Once you go above B20, the ASTM isn't so well defined on fuel cleanliness, combustability and all that other good stuff. B5 Biodiesel falls under the same ASTM guidelines as 100% dino stuff. Look it up, I long forgot the numbers off the top of my head.

Well thats sorta answers my question. My 12 already has short OCI's due to frequent regens. Adding B20 which as you say washes down the cylinder more than B5 would increase my oil dilution too much. Cummins must know that, so thats why the big NO on B20.
Running DEF eliminates the wash down right? So B20 could be run since the wash down would be minimul compared to a 12 CTD.

No, DEF has nothing to do with cylinder wash down.

Like 2shy said, Bio combusts poorly. In cold weather it's worse. When Bio gets into the crank case it makes the acid level go sky high which is not good and which is why ALL manufactures cut the oil change schedule in half when you use high levels of Bio.

High Bio % is a poor fuel for common rail systems.

[goducks10]

jus2shy wrote:
Biodiesel tends to not combust as completely as your typical diesel fuel. So you can have a potential fuel washing issue in the cylinders, especially as you climb above B20. So fuel dilution is a concern with Biodiesel. Especially with the post event injection that newer engines employ for DPF burn-off.

B20 is usually used as a maximum as many lines and seals may start having compatibility issues when you go above that. Bio has solvent properties and can swell seals that are not compatible, along with loosening all the soot and crud in a fuel system (hence clogged filters when you first run any bio). But low concentrations of Bio actually keeps a fuel system clean.

But Bio has the benefit of re-introducing lubricity that was lost when Sulfur was removed. To get the full benefit of the lubricity of Bio, you only need a low blend of B2. So I have no issues running B5 (which is pretty much state mandated in Washington and Oregon, not sure about our brothers to the east).

Double edged sword. I'll run B5 any day of the week. I'll run B20 in a pinch. I won't go above B20. Also, blends of B6 to B20 and below have pretty well defined cleanliness limits and such through the ASTM. Once you go above B20, the ASTM isn't so well defined on fuel cleanliness, combustability and all that other good stuff. B5 Biodiesel falls under the same ASTM guidelines as 100% dino stuff. Look it up, I long forgot the numbers off the top of my head.

Well thats sorta answers my question. My 12 already has short OCI's due to frequent regens. Adding B20 which as you say washes down the cylinder more than B5 would increase my oil dilution too much. Cummins must know that, so thats why the big NO on B20.
Running DEF eliminates the wash down right? So B20 could be run since the wash down would be minimul compared to a 12 CTD.

[jus2shy]

Biodiesel tends to not combust as completely as your typical diesel fuel. So you can have a potential fuel washing issue in the cylinders, especially as you climb above B20. So fuel dilution is a concern with Biodiesel. Especially with the post event injection that newer engines employ for DPF burn-off.

B20 is usually used as a maximum as many lines and seals may start having compatibility issues when you go above that. Bio has solvent properties and can swell seals that are not compatible, along with loosening all the soot and crud in a fuel system (hence clogged filters when you first run any bio). But low concentrations of Bio actually keeps a fuel system clean.

But Bio has the benefit of re-introducing lubricity that was lost when Sulfur was removed. To get the full benefit of the lubricity of Bio, you only need a low blend of B2. So I have no issues running B5 (which is pretty much state mandated in Washington and Oregon, not sure about our brothers to the east).

Double edged sword. I'll run B5 any day of the week. I'll run B20 in a pinch. I won't go above B20. Also, blends of B6 to B20 and below have pretty well defined cleanliness limits and such through the ASTM. Once you go above B20, the ASTM isn't so well defined on fuel cleanliness, combustability and all that other good stuff. B5 Biodiesel falls under the same ASTM guidelines as 100% dino stuff. Look it up, I long forgot the numbers off the top of my head.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

Wild Card wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Wild Card wrote:

goducks10 wrote:
FWIW I've ran a few partial (1/2-3/4) tanks of B20 in my 12 CTD. Never had any issues. That was a couple years ago. IMO I don't see how filling a partially empty tank with some B20 would make a difference. I won't run it 100% of the time even with the CAT dual filter setup I have.
What I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around is what exactly does Cummins think will happen if I do run B20 100% of the time. Is it an injector, HPFP, etc problem? If I were deleted then it certainly wouldn't be an EGR-DPF problem.
I've even asked the local Ram service guy and he didn't have an answer either. Seems that no one knows for sure.

You can run it with good filtration. 13 and newer has better filtration the 07.5-12 models. That is all. Put filter kit and your good.

Not even close.

Bio is VERY hard on oil. Ever seen the oil change schedule when Bio is used? Check it out.

Bio is also very hydroscopic. If some companies put some magic juice in there Bio, water will go right through even the best of filters.
Have any idea on what water can do to a HPFP or a set of injectors?

Years ago a diesel mechanic friend of mine went to a Bio company that had three of their delivery trucks that would not run. He pulled the injectors and found snot all of the tips of them. He had to clean and replace some of the parts in the fuel system to get them running again.

Run it if you want. I will never run anymore than 5%. I pulled into several stations up in Oregon last week. I left when I found out their diesel was over 5% Bio.

Nahh..I am pretty dang on close.


And like I said...it's filtration. Your buddy with the snot on the injectors, well if they had better filters that problem would not be there...same with water.

If your close and only need good filters why does every single engine maker have maximum on B fuel? Why not just put good filters on the engine and say run what you want?

Why does every engine maker cut oil change schedule way down if you run Bio?

You must know more than every single engine maker on this planet! :R

BTW, my buddy was a 30 year diesel mechanic that worked on the Bio company's delivery trucks. They were running their own Bio fuel. :B

[Wild_Card]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Wild Card wrote:

goducks10 wrote:
FWIW I've ran a few partial (1/2-3/4) tanks of B20 in my 12 CTD. Never had any issues. That was a couple years ago. IMO I don't see how filling a partially empty tank with some B20 would make a difference. I won't run it 100% of the time even with the CAT dual filter setup I have.
What I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around is what exactly does Cummins think will happen if I do run B20 100% of the time. Is it an injector, HPFP, etc problem? If I were deleted then it certainly wouldn't be an EGR-DPF problem.
I've even asked the local Ram service guy and he didn't have an answer either. Seems that no one knows for sure.

You can run it with good filtration. 13 and newer has better filtration the 07.5-12 models. That is all. Put filter kit and your good.

Not even close.

Bio is VERY hard on oil. Ever seen the oil change schedule when Bio is used? Check it out.

Bio is also very hydroscopic. If some companies put some magic juice in there Bio, water will go right through even the best of filters.
Have any idea on what water can do to a HPFP or a set of injectors?

Years ago a diesel mechanic friend of mine went to a Bio company that had three of their delivery trucks that would not run. He pulled the injectors and found snot all of the tips of them. He had to clean and replace some of the parts in the fuel system to get them running again.

Run it if you want. I will never run anymore than 5%. I pulled into several stations up in Oregon last week. I left when I found out their diesel was over 5% Bio.

Nahh..I am pretty dang on close.


And like I said...it's filtration. Your buddy with the snot on the injectors, well if they had better filters that problem would not be there...same with water.

[Espee]

otrfun wrote:
We've fueled up at a few major truck stops where B20 was the only fuel available. Got to wonder what owner/drivers of older 18-wheelers are doing while they're on the road.

If use of B20 was that big of a no-no for pre-2013 Cummins, wouldn't we have heard a rash of horror stories by now?

Almost all fleet vehicles and heavy duty trucks are designed to run up to b20, so its mostly the few light duty trucks and cars that have (had) the bd5 restriction...

Agreed, why no horror stories? ...but sure would like to hear from some who have been forced to go b20 extended term.

[goducks10]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Wild Card wrote:

goducks10 wrote:
FWIW I've ran a few partial (1/2-3/4) tanks of B20 in my 12 CTD. Never had any issues. That was a couple years ago. IMO I don't see how filling a partially empty tank with some B20 would make a difference. I won't run it 100% of the time even with the CAT dual filter setup I have.
What I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around is what exactly does Cummins think will happen if I do run B20 100% of the time. Is it an injector, HPFP, etc problem? If I were deleted then it certainly wouldn't be an EGR-DPF problem.
I've even asked the local Ram service guy and he didn't have an answer either. Seems that no one knows for sure.

You can run it with good filtration. 13 and newer has better filtration the 07.5-12 models. That is all. Put filter kit and your good.

Not even close.

Bio is VERY hard on oil. Ever seen the oil change schedule when Bio is used? Check it out.

Bio is also very hydroscopic. If some companies put some magic juice in there Bio, water will go right through even the best of filters.
Have any idea on what water can do to a HPFP or a set of injectors?

Years ago a diesel mechanic friend of mine went to a Bio company that had three of their delivery trucks that would not run. He pulled the injectors and found snot all of the tips of them. He had to clean and replace some of the parts in the fuel system to get them running again.

Run it if you want. I will never run anymore than 5%. I pulled into several stations up in Oregon last week. I left when I found out their diesel was over 5% Bio.

Do you know what Ram/Cummins has done to the 2013 besides adding another filter to make them ok to rum B20?
I've added the CAT dual filter setup and still have the OEM under hood. The 1st filter inline is a water separator. The 2nd inline is strictly a 2 or 3 micron fuel filter and the OEM is both water and fuel. Unless Cummins has done something else to the fuel system then So is the 2nd filter Ram added the answer? Then I should be safe unless the fuel system was altered to accept B20 in 2013.
If an owner runs B5 90% of the time and does the occasional B20 then their filters will need to be changed after running B20 since B20 cleans all the gunk that may have accumulated.
At least thats what I'm hearing from other owners as well as the dealer. Either run B5 all the time or run B20 all the time on 2013's.

[mkirsch]

So what if you're out and there's nothing else available? Do you just sit there and pout?

I get the feeling that the OP may be in that situation. B20 is probably a state mandate considering where he lives, and pretty soon he won't be able to get anything else without crossing state lines.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

Wild Card wrote:

goducks10 wrote:
FWIW I've ran a few partial (1/2-3/4) tanks of B20 in my 12 CTD. Never had any issues. That was a couple years ago. IMO I don't see how filling a partially empty tank with some B20 would make a difference. I won't run it 100% of the time even with the CAT dual filter setup I have.
What I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around is what exactly does Cummins think will happen if I do run B20 100% of the time. Is it an injector, HPFP, etc problem? If I were deleted then it certainly wouldn't be an EGR-DPF problem.
I've even asked the local Ram service guy and he didn't have an answer either. Seems that no one knows for sure.

You can run it with good filtration. 13 and newer has better filtration the 07.5-12 models. That is all. Put filter kit and your good.

Not even close.

Bio is VERY hard on oil. Ever seen the oil change schedule when Bio is used? Check it out.

Bio is also very hydroscopic. If some companies put some magic juice in there Bio, water will go right through even the best of filters.
Have any idea on what water can do to a HPFP or a set of injectors?

Years ago a diesel mechanic friend of mine went to a Bio company that had three of their delivery trucks that would not run. He pulled the injectors and found snot all of the tips of them. He had to clean and replace some of the parts in the fuel system to get them running again.

Run it if you want. I will never run anymore than 5%. I pulled into several stations up in Oregon last week. I left when I found out their diesel was over 5% Bio.

[Wild_Card]

goducks10 wrote:
FWIW I've ran a few partial (1/2-3/4) tanks of B20 in my 12 CTD. Never had any issues. That was a couple years ago. IMO I don't see how filling a partially empty tank with some B20 would make a difference. I won't run it 100% of the time even with the CAT dual filter setup I have.
What I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around is what exactly does Cummins think will happen if I do run B20 100% of the time. Is it an injector, HPFP, etc problem? If I were deleted then it certainly wouldn't be an EGR-DPF problem.
I've even asked the local Ram service guy and he didn't have an answer either. Seems that no one knows for sure.

You can run it with good filtration. 13 and newer has better filtration the 07.5-12 models. That is all. Put filter kit and your good.

[goducks10]

FWIW I've ran a few partial (1/2-3/4) tanks of B20 in my 12 CTD. Never had any issues. That was a couple years ago. IMO I don't see how filling a partially empty tank with some B20 would make a difference. I won't run it 100% of the time even with the CAT dual filter setup I have.
What I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around is what exactly does Cummins think will happen if I do run B20 100% of the time. Is it an injector, HPFP, etc problem? If I were deleted then it certainly wouldn't be an EGR-DPF problem.
I've even asked the local Ram service guy and he didn't have an answer either. Seems that no one knows for sure.