any downsides to a HW?

[soon2bexpat]

I have been full-timing in a '70s Apache hard-sided pop-up for over a year. I'm thinking of getting a different trailer. Here are the considerations:
- GVRW under 4000
- easier break-down and set-up time (esp. kitchen items- right now I have almost no cabinet space, so things have to be packed up before every move)
- I will spend 6-10 months in New Mexico state parks, so usually dry weather. Two months will be spent travelling the Pacific coast.
- It's just me without a lot of 'stuff'.

The short list includes a Trail Manor and a high-wall pop-up. But I've never stayed in a canvas pop-up, much less a HW. I like the ones with a slide-out and they seem to have more than adequate cabinet space.

So I'm asking if there are any downsides to a HW pop-up? I hear some complain of condensation on the walls. Would that happen in the southwest? Would bed end covers help?

[manualman]

Fabric wall popups are really nice tents. Hard side RVs are really cramped condos. Only you can decide which sort of environment is better for you. If you generally hate tent camping, the pup probably isn't for you, regardless of how many amenities it adds. If you LIKE tent camping, except for a few irritations, the pup may be perfect. So how to decide? Go buy a cheap Walmart tent and air mattress and do some FAIR weather weekenders. If you LIKE it, the pup will probably work for you. If you're appalled and horrified by the dirt, bugs and proximity of the outsideness of the world and need a spa treatment the moment you get home....

You can probably tell which camp I'm in... 😉
I do LOL when some folks express horror at the thought of spending months at a time in a pup. I've got friends who have spend months at a time walking a long trail with everything they have in their BACKPACK, so the pup would probably feel like absurd luxury to them. To each their own. But don't let somebody else tell you what yours is.

Oh, downsides to a HW vs a low wall popup?
- Need more than a 3,500# TV rating. The ability to tow a pup with an efficient FWD vehicle is one of its great assets that is lost when you go HW.
- The TV rear view mirror no longer works. Trailer blocks it. Works great in my minivan and low wall pup.
- Blows more in cross winds due to greater sail effect. My low wall has zero effect on steering feel under almost any conditions - including passing by speeding semis.
- Good luck putting the awning up or down after the roof is up, like when a storm is approaching. You'd need a ladder to reach it. I can do my low wall with just my 5 gallon gray water bucket as a stool.
+ I'll let others extoll their virtues. I don't like 'em.

[avoidcrowds]

It depends on the model. The 2417, which I have, has a 6-gal cassette, which is simple to empty. The other models use a recirculating toilet, so it is not really a black tank, as other trailers have.

Some like the recirculating toilet, and others don't. I like the cassette, as it works for us for week-long trips. I can empty it whenever I want, so it does not have to be full to effectively empty. Black tanks and recirculating units empty better when they have more liquid in them, to help flush the solids.

[soon2bexpat]

avoidcrowds wrote:
I will advocate for a TrailManor.

Do they really have a 6 gallon black tank? That could be a deal buster.

[soon2bexpat]

mileshuff wrote:
If you can find a hybrid with dual axis that fits your weight requirements I'd go that route.

I don't think there is such an animal. I don't want to go to the full tow capacity.

[avoidcrowds]

I will advocate for a TrailManor. Also have a 2417 (KD), but we have the bathroom/shower. 40 gal fresh tank, 'fridge, 6 gal water heater, lots of storage for an expandable trailer.

Tows great, expands in two minutes, and completely settled in 10 minutes. Fully-loaded for a week (water, propane, food) I am at 3,600 lbs. We use a WDH, so that takes about 500 lbs off the trailer axle. I get 21 mpg when towing the trailer, which is 7 mpg better than a full-height lightweight trailer with the same tow vehicle.

Lots of trailers available, and all have their benefits and detractions. You just need to figure out what amenities you want, what you don't want/need, and go from there. I love the TrailManor for many reasons, and encourage you to look at some. You can go larger (2720 and stay under 4,000 lbs), and also get one of three different floorplans in any length.

Good luck!

[mileshuff]

If you can find a hybrid with dual axis that fits your weight requirements I'd go that route. Dual axles pull much steadier than single. With a short 17'er it may not make a big difference though.

[Square_Dance_Ca]

We had a 10 ft box 1993 Starcraft starflyer which worked with 3 kids but after 4 we got a Fleetwood HW Redwood (model made only in 2004, 14 ft. box) I wanted the HW so as to avoid lowering the table to close up the trailer and with higher counters come more storage. The Redwood has a cassette toilet but no inside shower. Two king beds didn't hurt and of course easy to tow weight wise (though heavy for a popup), though you can't see over the top like the smaller pop up we still have great visibility around it. Took it on two cross country trips, over a month long each and put that thing in some sites a larger trailer would never go. We love the openness of the canvas, cross breezes, feels like you're sleeping outside, without the bugs. Not so great in the cold though, but we've loved every minute camping in it.

Then son #3 went to college and we went camping without him. Realized then that he had been doing all the cranking, bed set up, etc. Once we had to do it (and we're both over 50) it was time to start looking for a travel trailer. Spent the better part of the last two years researching sporadically and have narrowed the search some.

Full time, I wouldn't do the canvas pop up, or the aliner. If you want to stay one night somewhere on the road, up and down it goes. With something like the RPod you can just pull in and go to sleep if need be.

[soon2bexpat]

Thanks for the feedback. I think I'm going to go with a hybrid. I didn't realize there were so many models available. I'm liking the Ar-One 15RB.

[mileshuff]

Have you thought about a Hybrid such as the Jayco 16XRB? GVRW of 3500lbs

Much roomier than a popup and faster setup and takedown.
We used ours for 10 years in the southwest. Condensation on the inside of the canvas does occur occasionally. We used a fan/light that clipped onto the canvas support. The fan greatly reduced the condensation and the light was great for reading in bed etc. We also used tent covers which completely eliminated condensation. Only used those on humid or rainy days.

[bondebond]

I'm a huge fan of high wall pop ups. You won't catch me buying another standard height PUP.

That said, PUPs are not for full-timing, in no way, shape, form or fashion. I have stayed in a PUP for about a month in ugly summer heat and humidity. The AC ran constant and couldn't keep up in the 104+ degree days and I made a way to shade the PUP with little relief.

Canvas, technically vinyl, can hold up but not for long term. I have left PUGs on my deployed PUP at home for several months and those things will break down as well. The top layer starts to crack and separate but then the little silver flakes with some adhesive still on them will stick to the rest of the tenting making a big mess. Yes, ask me how I know.

I don't know of anyone what would full-time in a PUP, or at least recommend doing it.

Since full-timing is your intention, I would go with the TrailManor or other hard side options.

[lfloom]

We started out with a 10 foot pup, then as our kids got older, we went to a 14 foot highwall trailer. That thing was huge and comfortable! It had a bathroom, and a sink you could actually do dishes in. It had an oven. I could cook brownies while camping! If the weather was unfriendly we could cook and eat inside. I always did dishes inside.

When the kids moved out, we downsized a bit - we now have the smallest trailmanor currently available - the 2417. We decided to forgo the bathroom, it takes up too much space. But, it is way more comfortable and easier to set up than either PUPs. I am back to doing dishes outside, and almost never cook insider.

We live in So Cal, and have camped all over.

BTW, both my HW and the Trailmanor barely fit in my garage. When we bought the HW, we had to change our one pice garage door with a sectional to get a couple of inches of headspace.

[rexlion]

DW and I got a popup in '99 or 2000 and took a trip from OK to ID and back. The flapping noise of the canvas in wind was bothersome. Hearing the neighbors so clearly through the canvas was also unpleasant. Hearing the bear through the canvas... well, DW swears she will never sleep in a popup again! I also disliked the cranking (we didn't have push-button electric up/down), pulling out the ends and getting slivers from the plywood, messing with all the snaps and other setup details. And everything is stored down low, so one must bend over to get every little thing.

I had an Aliner for a year, too. Same thing with the storage, but setup was fast and easy and the walls blocked sound pretty well (no flapping sounds either, obviously!). I wasn't inspired by the product quality, however.

I want to go back to a molded-fiberglass trailer. Scamp, Casita, Lil Snoozy, Parkliner are some of the brands. They are all sold factory direct, but you can find used ones on Craigslist and elsewhere. They tow just about as easily as the popups. The only setup is leveling and hooking up to water/electric/sewer. It's so nice to be able to park anywhere and hop into the trailer to use the bathroom, fix lunch, or whatever.

Nothing wrong with Trailmanors from what I've heard, either. They are heavier but still tow fairly easy with their low profile.

[patperry2766]

R-Pod

I have a Flagstaff HW pop-up camper. When you hear "pop-up" alot of people associate them with being small, inexpensive campers. Mine is neither of them. It will comfortably sleep 4 people with the dinette folded down.

We (wife) and I can break it down & set it up in about 40 minutes. We have camped in Texas, Arkansas, Colorado & Florida and I do not remember any condensation issues.

We always use our PUGS to cover the extended bunks and put cut Reflexix in the windows to help keep in cooler in the summer, so much so that we were in Florida this past August, and I had to buy my wife a sweatshirt to keep her warm because I got tired of her complaining about how cold it was inside.

(-) set up time

(-) have to make sure canvas is completely dry before storing. We always have to re-open it when we get back from trips to clean it out and to make sure it's dry.

(+) fits in our driveway

(+) alot of interior space
If I were in your situation, and it were just me, I would seriously look at the RV that I linked. You could use the bunk area in the front for storage, it has a fold-out rear bunk for added interior space. Plus, it will be SIGNIFICANTLY easier to relocate from campground to campground.

[Golden_HVAC]

Have you looked at

ALiner.com

I have a friend with one, and it really does set up in 90 seconds or less. My only complaint would be no real bathroom, and the short size.


I have a 30' Bounder and enjoy my 100 gallon fresh water tank. The fact that I only get 8 MPG is fine, I barely travel 5,000 miles a year, so fuel costs are not significant. I love being able to shower daily for 3 weeks before needing to move and get more fresh water. By that time, I am ready to go to a place with a laundry mat and refill with water.

To each their own, I guess. . . I love being able to stay near a lake for a week at a time, or spend days near a canyon overlook. I don't know that I would enjoy being in a small RV.

Good luck,

Have fun camping!

Fred.