Actual federal weight law rules, some questions and answers

[jmramiller]

I have per the request of a few members, stickied this post. Please note, this is not a place to argue whether a law makes sense or not, just what the laws are. If you have a question about wt laws, that appears to be NOT answered in some way shape or form, please ask, and hopefully some of the ACTUAL weights and measures LEO's will answer, or those with some actual knowledge.

In the mean time, I do thank the OP for starting this thread, altho I have taken the liberty to change the title to one I think and hope will be a bit more informative in name.

marty
TV moderator

Some on this forum suggests that RAWR per the door sticker is legally binding by federal law. Specifically by para f of FMCSA:

(f) Except as provided herein, States may not enforce on the Interstate System vehicle weight limits of less than 20,000 pounds on a single axle, 34,000 pounds on a tandem axle, or the weights derived from the Bridge Formula, up to a maximum of 80,000 pounds, including all enforcement tolerances. States may not limit tire loads to less than 500 pounds per inch of tire or tread width, except that such limits may not be applied to tires on the steering axle. States may not limit steering axle weights to less than 20,000 pounds or the axle rating established by the manufacturer, whichever is lower.

The argument is that the last half of the last sentence "the axle rating established by the manufacturer, whichever is lower." is referring to the door sticker RAWR.

It is my contention that this actually refers to the "steering axle" which according to my English classes is the subject of the sentence. My contention is to find a standard relating to the rear axle in para f you have to refer back to the first sentence:
"States may not enforce on the Interstate System vehicle weight limits of less than 20,000 pounds on a single axle"

I would like to hear from LEO's who might have a comment on this subject. I would also love to hear from anyone who can post a copy of a citation issued for exceeding door sticker weight ratings. A link to the violated code would be nice also.

My only agenda here is to find out what really is and what really is not. I have intentionally omitted the names of those who make these claims because I want this to be about the law not people's claims.

Thanks.

[transamz9]

Just so everyone knows, I just finished a DOT audit with a DMV inspector that is employed by the federal government. My State (Ky) has adopted the federal commercial laws as law in our state. I was able to ask some questions that have been kind-of shady. I called them to do this audit so that I could be in complete compliance of the commercial laws on our commercial vehicles at work. (one of my jobs as the shop manager). FWIW, The federal government does NOT have restrictions on RV's.

[Snow_King]

In Washington State they register tonnage. They take the tare weight times 1.5 and round up to the next higher even K. One can register more, however not less than the formula. My 2500 truck with 8800 GVWR is registered at 12k based on the formula. Based on ferderal bridge weight formulas and registered weights the truck can legally haul a lot more than Dodge warrantied it to be able to haul. The RV.NET weight police need an extended vacation.

All the weight threads should be closed asp with a link to this thread. Now if the admins would just create a similar tire thread!

[Gunpilot77]

AAM

Washington DOT

The door post tag on your pickup will give you the rating Dodge recommends.

[gdavidg]

_Adam_ wrote:
Two things...

First... editted... Wasn't inteded to start a flame war.

Second... I have a dodge truck and the RAWR on the door jamb sticker is far less than what the actual manufacturer specifies to to be - In this situation, who is the manufacturer, Dodge or AAM, and whose specification is right or most correct?

what is AAM and where do I go to look at the axle rating for my 3500 srw 2010 Dodge diesel?

Who are the regulating authorities in the State of Washington for commercial vehicles?

Thanks for your input,.

[overw8chevy]

actually, there is so much baloney in this thread
it makes me feel sick to my stomach
but it needs to stay right below the gas vs diesel thread
just because it is just as worthy of a first place showing in the running for the 2010 Norman Schwarzkopf Award for Bovine Scatology

[SolidAxleDurang]

Wow. That was immensely helpful!. Thanks!

[rvert10]

Have you looked at this site on axel weight and CGVWR:

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Towing Laws Listed by State
State Height Width Combined Length Trailer Length Trailer Width Trailer Height MH Length Two Vehicle Length Triple Tow Safety Chains Breakaway Fire Extinguisher Flares Signs Brake Laws Trailers Brake Laws Towed Cars Wipers Overnight Parking Max Tow Speed Ride In 5th Wheel Ride Pickup Camper Ride Travel Trailer Speed Limit GVW Axle License Required Reciprocity
Alabama 13 1/2' 8 1/2' 65' 57' (41) 8'0" 13'6" 45' 65' no yes yes (2) yes (36) Not Stated 3000 Brakes not required. yes P 70 yes Posted Varies 20,000 lbs Class D Yes
Alaska 14' 8 1/2' 75' 40' 8'6" 14'0" 40' 75' yes yes yes (2) Not Stated yes 5000 Brake hook-up required if towed object over 3,000 pounds. Not Stated yes 55 yes Posted N/A N/A Class D Yes
Arizona 13 1/2' 8' 65' 40' 8'0" 13'6" 45' 65' yes (43) Not Stated yes (2) Not Stated Not Stated 3000 (17) Brakes not required. Not Stated yes (3) 75 yes yes yes Posted Manufactured Stated Gross Weight 20,000 lbs Class D Yes
Arkansas 13 1/2' 8 1/2' 65' 43 1/2' 8'6" 13'6" 40' 2 Unit Limit (No max given) yes yes yes (2) Not Stated yes 3000 No laws regarding. yes yes 70 yes Posted Federal Bridge Formula 20,000 lbs Class D Yes
California 14' 8 1/2' 65' NS 8'6" 14'0" 45' (27) 65' yes (41) yes yes yes yes 1500 (17) Brakes must be sufficient to stop within a specified distance according to weight, at 20 mph. Not Stated P 55 yes (10,20) yes (35) Posted Manufactured Stated Gross Weight 20,000 lbs <40ft. - Class C >= - non-com. < 40ft. - Class C >= 40ft. Non-comm. Class B w/ med. Questionnaire Yes
Colorado 13' 8 1/2' 70' NS (42) 8'6" 13'0" 45' 70' yes (42) yes yes Not Stated Not Stated 3000 (17) No laws regarding. Not Stated Not Stated 75 yes yes Posted 54,000 lbs 20,000 lbs Class R No
Connecticut 13 1/2' 8 1/2' 60' (1) max length = 48' 53' (19) 8'6" 13'6" 45' 60' (1, 13) no yes yes yes yes 3000 (17) No laws regarding. yes P 65 yes Posted Manufactured Stated Gross Weight 18,000 lbs Class 2 Yes
Delaware 13 1/2' 8 1/2' 60' NS (19) 8'6" 13'6" 45' 65' no Not Stated Not Stated Not Stated yes 4000 If towed vehicle over 4,000 pounds, brakes must connected to those of towing vehicle. yes P 55 yes Posted Federal Bridge Formula 20,000 lbs Class D No
District of Columbia 13 1/2' 8 1/2' 60' NS 8'0" 13'0" 40' 55' no yes yes Not Stated Not Stated 3000 (17) No laws regarding. Not Stated Not Stated 55 yes Posted 80,000 lbs 20,000 lbs Class C Yes
Flordia 13 1/2' 8 1/2' 65' 40' 8'6" 13'6" 45' 65' no yes yes yes yes 3000 (17) If towed vehicle weight exceeds 3,000 pounds, brake hook-ups required as well as breakaway system. yes P 70 yes Posted Manuractured Stated Gross Weight 20,000 lbs Class D Yes
Georgia 13 1/2' 8 1/2' 60' NS (19) 8'0" 13'6" No Limit Given None no yes Not Stated yes yes 1500 No laws regarding. yes (39) Not Stated 55 yes (18) Posted Federal Bridge Formula 20,340 lbs Class C No
Hawaii 14' 9' 65' 40' 9'0" 13'6" 45' 65' no yes yes (2) Not Stated Not Stated 3000 (17) Brake hook-ups required. Not Stated Not Stated 55 yes (33) Posted 80,000 lbs 22,500 lbs Type 4 (Non-CDL) Yes
Idaho 14' 8 1/2' 75' 48' 8'6" 14'0" 45' 75' yes (41) Not Stated yes Not Stated Not Stated 1500 No laws regarding. Not Stated P 65 yes Posted 80,000 lbs 20,000 lbs Class D Yes
Illinois 13 1/2' 8 1/2' 60' 53' (19) 8'0" 13'6" 45' 60' yes (19,43) yes (1) yes (5) Not Stated yes 3000 (17) Brake hook-up required if towed vehicle is over 3,000 pounds. yes Not Stated 55 yes 65 mph under 8,000 lbs; 55 mph over 8,000 lbs Federal Bridge Formula 20,000 lbs on interstates & hwys;18,000 lbs others Class D Yes
Indiana 13 1/2' 8 1/2' 60' 40' 8'0" 13'6" 45' 60' yes (41) yes yes Not Stated yes 3000 (17) No laws regarding. Not Stated yes 65 yes yes yes Posted 800 lbs per inch of tire 20,000 lbs Class C Yes
Iowa 13 1/2' 8 1/2' 60' NS (19) 8'6" 13'6" 45' 65' yes yes yes Not Stated yes 3000 No laws regarding. Not Stated Not Stated 65 yes yes yes Posted 80,000 lbs 20,000 lbs Class C Yes
Kansas 14' 8 1/2' 65' NS (41) 9'0" 14'0" 45' 65' yes (41) yes (37) yes yes (36) yes yes (24) No laws regarding.. Not Stated yes 70 yes (33) yes (33) yes (33) Posted Federal Bridge Formula 20,000 lbs 26,000 lbs Class C >= 26,000 lbs Class B Yes
Kentucky 13 1/2' 8' 65' NS (41) 8'0" 13'6" 40' 65' yes (42) yes yes yes yes 3000 (6) No laws regarding. yes Not Stated 65 yes Posted Manufactured Stated Gross Weight 20,000 lbs Class D Yes
Lousiana 13 1/2' 8 1/2' 65' 30' 8'0" 13'6" 45' 70' yes (42) yes (7) yes (2) Not Stated yes 3000 No laws regarding. Not Stated P 70 yes Posted Manufactured Stated Gross Weight 20,000 lbs Class E Yes
Maine 13 1/2' 8 1/2' 65' 48' 8'6" 13'6" 45' 65' no yes Not Stated Not Stated Not Stated 3000 No laws regarding. yes P 55 Posted 80,000 lbs 22,400 lbs Class C Yes
Maryland 13 1/2' 8' 55' NS 8'0" 13'6" 40' 60' total; 55' on desig. Routes yes yes yes (6) yes yes 3000 (17) No laws regarding. yes P 65 yes yes yes Posted Federal Bridge Formula 22,400 lbs Non-com. B>= 26,001 lbs; Non-com. C <=26,000 lbs Yes
Massachusetts 13 1/2' 8 1/2' 60' 33' 8'6" 13'6" 40' 60' no yes Not Stated Not Stated Not Stated 10,000 No laws regarding. Not Stated P 65 yes Posted 80,000 lbs 22,400 lbs Class D Yes
Michigan 13 1/2' 8' 59' 53 (45) 8'0" 13'6" 45' 65' yes (43) yes yes Not Stated Not Stated 3000 No laws regarding. Not Stated P 55 yes yes yes Posted 700 lbs per inch of tire 18,000 lbs Class B Yes
Minnesota 13 1/2' 8 1/2' 75' 45' 8'6" 13'6" 45' 75' (19) yes (43) yes yes (7) Not Stated yes 3000 (17) Brake hook-up required except where brakes on towing vehicle are adequate to stop both vehicles within distance required by law. yes P 70 yes yes yes Posted Federal Bridge Formula 20,000 lbs Class D Yes
Mississippi 13 1/2' 8 1/2' none NS 8'6" 13'6" 40' 99' yes yes yes Not Stated yes 2000 (17) Brake hook-up required. Not Stated Not Stated 55 Posted 20,000 lbs per axle 20,000 lbs Class R Yes
Missouri 14' 8 1/2' 65' NS (41) 8'6" 13'6" 45' 65' yes (41) yes (37) Not Stated Not Stated Not Stated NS Both vehicles require brakes. Not Stated yes 70 yes yes yes Posted Federal Bridge Formula 20,000 lbs Non-Commercial Class F Yes
Montana 14' 8 1/2' 75' NS (40) 8'6" 13'6" 55' 75' yes (42) yes yes Not Stated yes 3000 No laws regarding. Not Stated P 65 yes yes 75mph interstate; 70 daylight; 65 night/non inters Federal Bridge Formula 20,000 lbs Class D Yes
Nebraska 14 1/2' 8 1/2' 65' 40' 8'6" 14'6" 45' 65' yes (41) yes yes (2) Not Stated yes 3000 No laws regarding. Not Stated Not Stated 75 yes yes yes Posted Manufactured Stated Gross Weight 20,000 lbs Class O Yes
Nevada 14' 8 1/2' 70' NS 8'6" 143'0" 40' 70' yes (42) yes yes (2) Not Stated Not Stated 1500 Braking system required when gross weight of towed object exceeds 3,000 pounds, 1,500 pounds if 1975 or newer model. Not Stated yes (21) 75 yes Posted Truck Limit 80,000 lbs without class B or A license 20,000 lbs Class A or B non-comm. W/ "R" endorsement for RV, a "J" endorsement for towing vehicles >= 10,000 lbs Yes
New Hampshire 13 1/2' 8' none 48' 8'0" 13'6" 45' 45' no yes Not Stated Not Stated Not Stated 3000 No laws regarding. Not Stated Not Stated 55 65mph 80,000 lbs 18,000 lbs Class D Yes
New Jersey 13 1/2' 8' 62' 40' 8'0" 13'6" 40' 53' no yes yes Not Stated yes 3000 Brake hookup required. yes P 65 yes yes Posted 80,000 lbs 22,400 lbs Class D Yes
New Mexico 14' (1) 8 1/2' 65' NS (41) 8'0" 14'0" 40' 65' yes yes Not Stated Not Stated yes 3000 (17) Brake hookup required. Not Stated P 75 Posted Manufactured Stated Gross Weight 21,600 lbs Class D Yes
New York 13 1/2' 8 1/2' some exceptions 65' NS (41) 8'6" 13'6" 45' 65' no yes Not Stated Not Stated Not Stated 1000 (9) No laws regarding. yes P 65 yes Posted 800 lbs per inch of tire 22,400 lbs Non-CDL C may tow vehicles w/ a GVWR of 10,000 lbs Yes
North Carolina 13 1/2' 8 1/2' (25) 60' NS (19) 8'6" 13'6" 45' 60' no yes Not Stated Not Stated Not Stated 1000 No laws regarding. yes Not Stated 55 yes yes yes Posted Federal Bridge Formula 20,000 lbs Class A traveling w/>= 10,001 lbs Class B traveling w/>=26,001 lbs non towing Yes
North Dakota 14' 8 1/2' 75' 53' 8'6" 14'0" 50' 75' yes (40) yes yes Not Stated yes 3000 No laws regarding. Not Stated yes 70 yes yes Posted Manufactured Stated Gross Weight 20,000 lbs Class D non-CDL Yes
Ohio 13 1/2' 8 1/2' 65' NS (41) 8'6" 13'6" 40' 65' yes (41) yes yes yes yes 2000 (17) No laws regarding. Not Stated Not Stated 55 yes 55 mph 80,000 lbs 20,000 lbs Class D Yes
Oklahoma 13 1/2' 8 1/2' 70' NS (41) 8'6" 13'6" 45' 65' yes (41) yes yes Not Stated yes 3000 No laws regarding. Not Stated yes 65 yes Posted 80,000 lbs 20,000 lbs Class D Yes
Oregon 14' 8' some exceptions 50' max length =60', special permit NS (41) 8'6" 14'0" 45' 65' (19) no yes Not Stated Not Stated Not Stated Not Stated No laws regarding. Not Stated yes (1,23) 55 yes (35) yes Posted 80,000 lbs 20,000 lbs Class C Yes
Pennsylvania 13 1/2' 8 1/2' 60' NS (19) 8'6" 13'6" 45' 65' no yes yes yes yes yes (4,6) No laws regarding. yes Not Stated 55 yes (10) Posted 73,280 lbs 20,000 lbs Non-commercial Class A or B Yes
Rhode Island 13 1/2' 8 1/2' 60' NS 8'6" 13'6" 45' 60' no Not Stated yes Not Stated yes 4000 No laws regarding. yes yes 65 yes Posted 80,000 lbs 22,400 lbs Class B > 26,000 lbs; Reg. Operators < 26,000 lbs; air brake endorsement required if > 26,000 lbs w/ air brakes Yes
South Carolina 13 1/2' 8 1/2' none 35' 8'6" 13'6" 40' L N/A no yes yes yes yes 3000 (17) Brakes required if combined vehicle weight exceeds 3,000 pounds. yes P 55 yes Posted 2 axles 38,500 lbs 20,000 lbs Class E >= 26,000 lbs Class F if towing Yes
South Dakota 14' 8 1/2' 75' 53 8'6" 14'0" 45' 80' yes (40) yes yes yes yes 3000 Brakes, turn signals, and near lights required. Not Stated P 75 yes (10) yes Posted Federal Bridge Formula 20,000 lbs Non-commercial Class 1 Yes
Tennessee 13 1/2' 8 1/2' 65' 40' (41) 8'0" 13'6" 40' 65' yes (41) yes yes (2) yes yes 1500 Brake hookup required. yes yes 70 Posted 80,000 lbs 20,000 lbs Class D<= 26,000 lbs Yes
Texas 14' 8 1/2' 65' NS (41) 8'6" 14'0" 45' 65' yes (41) yes yes (2) Not Stated yes 4500 No laws regarding. Not Stated P (11) 70 yes Posted 80,000 lbs 20,000 lbs Class B non-CDL >=26,000 lbs Yes
Utah 14' 8 1/2' 65' NS (41) 8'6" 14'0" 65' 65' yes (41) yes yes (2) yes yes 2000 No laws regarding. Not Stated P (23) 75 yes Posted Manufactured Stated Gross Weight 20,000 lbs Class D Yes
Vermont 13 1/2' 8 1/2' 65' NS 8'6" 13'6" 46' 68' no yes yes (2) yes yes 3000 No laws regarding. Not Stated Not Stated 65 yes Posted Federal Bridge Formula 20,000 lbs Class B Yes
Virginia 13 1/2' 8' 60' NS (41) 8'6" 13'6" 45' 65' no yes yes (34) Not Stated Not Stated 3000 No laws regarding. yes P 55 yes Posted Federal Bridge Formula 20,000 lbs Class B Yes
Washington 14' 8 1/2' 75' NS (40) 8'6" 14'0" 46' 75' no yes yes (2) yes yes 3000 No laws regarding. Not Stated yes (14) 65 yes 60 mph over 10,000 lbs; under 10,000 lbs posted 600 lbs per inch of tire 20,000 lbs Regular Operator License Yes
West Virginia 13 1/2' 8 1/2' 55' max length =60' 48' 8'0" 13'6" 40' 55' (19) no yes yes Not Stated yes 3000 (6,17) No laws regarding. yes Not Stated 65 yes yes Posted Federal Bridge Formula 20,000 lbs Class E Yes
Wisconsin 13 1/2' 8 1/2' 65' 45' 8'6" 13'6" 40' L 65' yes (43) yes Not Stated Not Stated Not Stated 3000 (17) Brake hook-up required on vehicle over 3,000 pounds. Not Stated Not Stated 65 yes (27) yes Posted 80,000 lbs 20,000 lbs Class D Yes
Wyoming 14' 8 1/2' 85' 60' 8'6" 14'0" 60' 85' yes yes Not Stated Not Stated Not Stated Not Stated No laws regarding. yes (24) yes 75 75mph interstate; 65 on 2 lane hwys;55 unless post Federal Bridge Formula 20,000 lbs Class B if GVWR>26,000 lbs; Class C if GVWR < 26,000 lbs. Yes
Alberta 3.85m 2.6m 12.5m Not Stated Not Stated 12.5m 20m yes (50) yes (29) yes (38) yes (22) Not Stated 2000lbs (12) Not stated, see Trailer Laws Not Stated Not Stated Not Stated yes Posted Manuf. Spec. 6,000 kg Class 5; 75+: need medical certificate Yes
British Columbia 4.15m 2.6m 12.5m Not Stated Not Stated 12.5m 20m Not Stated yes yes (38) Not Stated yes 1400kg (12) Brake hook-up not required but invariably necessary. Not Stated Not Stated Not Stated 80kph Manuf. Spec. Posted on tire Class 5 Yes
Manitoba 4.15m 2.6m 12.5m Not Stated Not Stated 12.5m 21.5m yes (49) yes Not Stated Not Stated yes (5) 910 kg (17) Towed vehicle must have functional brakes when not connected by tow bar. Not Stated yes Not Stated yes Posted Manuf. Spec. Manuf. Spec. Class 5; 60+;Need med. cert.every 2 yrs; air brake endorse. If air brakes. Yes
New Brunswick 4.15m 2.6m 12.5m Not Stated Not Stated 12.5m 23m Not Stated yes yes (2) Not Stated yes yes (4) No laws regarding. Not Stated P Not Stated yes Posted Per Motor Act Reg 94-62 5,500kg steering axle; 9,100 kg simple axle; 18,000 kg tandem axle Class 5 Air brake endorsement; if air brakes Yes
Newfoundland/Labrador 4.2m 2.6m 12.5m Not Stated Not Stated 12.5m 23m Not Stated yes yes (15) yes (15) yes (8) yes (45) No laws regarding. Not Stated yes Not Stated yes yes yes N/A N/A N/A Class 5 Yes
NW Territories 4.15m 2.6m NS (48) Not Stated Not Stated 12.5m 25m Not Stated yes yes Not Stated Not Stated 1360kg No laws regarding. yes (22) yes Not Stated yes Posted N/A N/A Class 5 Yes
Nova Scotia 4.15m 2.6m 12.5m Not Stated Not Stated 12.5m 23m yes (44) yes yes yes yes 1800kg No laws regarding. Not Stated Not Stated Not Stated yes Posted None specific for motorhomes 8,000 kg simple axle; 26,000 kg tandem axle Class 5 Yes
Ontario 4.15m 2.6m 12.5m Not Stated Not Stated 12.5m 23m Not Stated yes Not Stated Not Stated Not Stated 1360kg (17) No laws regarding. Not Stated Not Stated Not Stated yes Posted 11,000 kg 9,000 kg single axle/tire; 10,000kg dual tire/axle Class G, D, or A Yes
Prince Edward Island 4.5m 2.6m 12.5m Not Stated Not Stated 16.2 m 25m Not Stated yes Not Stated Not Stated Not Stated 1500kg No laws regarding. Not Stated P Not Stated yes yes yes Posted 9,100 kg single axle; 18,000 kg tandem axle Can't exceed tire or axle rating Class 5 N/A
Ouebec 4.15m 2.6m 12.5m Not Stated Not Stated 12.5m 23m Not Stated yes (29) yes (29) Not Stated yes (30) 1300kg (12) Not recommended but is legal Not Stated P Not Stated yes (32) Posted Manuf. Spec. Manuf. Spec. Class 5 Yes
Saskatchewan 4.15m 2.6m 12.5m Not Stated Not Stated 12.5m 23m yes yes Not Stated Not Stated Not Stated 1360kg (17,18) No laws regarding. Not Stated Not Stated Not Stated yes yes yes (43) Posted 10kg/mm single axle 9,1000 kg Class 5 Yes
Yukon 4.2m 2.6m 16.15m Not Stated Not Stated 26m 26m Not Stated yes yes Not Stated yes 910kgs Brakes required if GVW exceeds 9,100 kgs. yes (39) P Not Stated ys (31) yes Posted Manuf. Spec. Manuf. Spec Class 5 N/A

[ShapeShifter]

Wadcutter wrote:
I'll believe the company Technical Advisor until I see a weigh ticket that is different from the other weigh tickets I've seen on the larger Class As.

I've got the certified weigh ticket in my files, that's all the proof I need. By your own previous admission you've stated that you've not seen all the rigs out there. We've gone around in circles already and I am well aware of the difference between ratings and actual weights. You're not listening to what I'm saying, and I'm not communicating it well enough because I'm trying to keep it brief and not write pages and pages of a response. That's why I didn't quote each and every line of your responses and say something for each sentence. Just because I didn't explicitly respond to something you've written doesn't mean I didn't read it, doesn't mean I didn't consider it, and doesn't mean that I agree with you.

You believe a customer service agent who's never seen the rig in question, over the sticker that states the unladen weight (not the rating!) which was prepared by the factory at the time that the specific rig was built. That's fine. I'll go by what the factory stated at the time it was built, you go by a CSR's guess. I have more confidence in the factory, especially when the factory's numbers more closely relate to my certified weight ticket.

I've carefully read your responses, I'm not questioning what you say, and I respect your professional opinions. That is, up until you say that no RV ever goes over the federal axle weight limit, because I have proof to the contrary. You just go right ahead and dismiss me as someone who doesn't know what I'm talking about, I don't care about that, because I know that I know what I'm talking about (I just may not be expressing it clearly in my written words.)

I know there are other people on this forum who are struggling with the 20k per axle limit. I remember reading of one fellow who was turned around at the entrance to the Ohio Turnpike because his axle was over weight. I just did a quick search, and while I didn't find that post, I did find this thread: Legal (?) axle weights on Class A. Take a quick scan of that thread, and look at some of the weights (not just ratings) that are posted there. I see several people who are over the 20k limit. And I know that isn't the only thread I've seen like that, there have been many. Some of the posters may be uninformed or mistaken, or may be exaggerating, but I can't believe that all of them are out to lunch.

It would appear to me that I am not an isolated incident. While evidence of one exception is enough to prove that "NEVER" doesn't apply, apparently you need more. Well that thread has several. How many cases do you need before you will admit that there are indeed some RVers out there who need to worry about the 20k limit? If you need more than that, do a little searching around here, and you will find plenty of others who are over the limit, just as you will find stories of rigs being shipped from the factory that are over the federal limit, or over their axle ratings.

Just because you haven't personally seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've never met an Illinois weight enforcement officer, but I'm pretty sure they do exist. 😉

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Therefore, this is my last post on the topic, I won't let you drag me into any more arguing. Thank you for the service you've performed to the community and this forum. You are very informative and an asset to both.

My parting comment is to the other RVers out there, not you, wadcutter: To the owners of heavy RVs: wadcutter is a professional who has previously confirmed that there is a 20,000 pound federal axle weight limit, it does apply to RVs, there is the potential for a ticket with a hefty fine, and the potential inability to legally move your rig after being found overweight. I don't dispute any of those statements by him. But regardless of what wadcutter says about no RVs ever approaching the 20,000 pound per axle federal weight limit, I know for a fact that there are indeed RVs out there that are over that limit. If you have a heavy RV, and you think you may be close to the limit, please don't stick your head in the sand because wadcutter says you can't possibly be overweight, do go out and get yourself weighed. You might be surprised, and you don't want that surprise to be on the side of the road accompanied by a hefty fine and the inability to move your rig.

That's all I'm trying to say, and I am done. Thank you for your time. Now, everybody, please go out camping and safely enjoy yourself.

[Wadcutter]

ShapeShifter wrote:

Wadcutter wrote:
"20 k is the axle rating. I would say somewhere around 17 k for normally loaded and if it has a tag axle that weight can be adjusted thru the tag."

So it's just his guess. And that means what? Add the fact that he's talking about a tag axle that wasn't announced until several years later, and still is not in production on that model, and it's clear that he doesn't really have much credibility.

Or perhaps his guess is more credible than a certified scale slip?

Looking at it another way, riddle me this Batman: The CCC calculation sticker on my rig states that it has much less than 3,000 pounds of CCC for both axles, and some of that CCC is on the front axle. That means that the avaialable capacity for the rear axle is significantly less than 3,000 pounds. So, when "normally loaded," how can the rear axle weight be 3,000 pounds less than the rating? The math clearly doesn't add up. Yet another indication that perhaps the person who answered your email was mistaken.

Go ahead and believe what you want. I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm just trying to make sure that someone who might be in the same situation doesn't have their head stuck in the sand, and if they think they might be close they should get themselves weighed. It's a common scenario on this forum that when people finally do weigh their rigs, they are surprised by just how much weight they are carrying around.

I'll believe the company Technical Advisor until I see a weigh ticket that is different from the other weigh tickets I've seen on the larger Class As. His guess is most likely dependant on exactly what you're loading since what you carry would be different than what anyone would carry. What you apparently failed to read since you didn't highlight it was his statement "normally loaded".
Here's the answer for you Robin. Read what you just wrote. "sticker on my rig states". You're going off stickers and weight ratings. Weight rating stickers aren't actual weights. Your math doesn't add up because you're going by ratings and not actual weights. Very simple answer.
So answer this Robin. Just how long do you think it would be before dealers and HR would be getting a ton of irrate phone calls from customers when they're sitting in a weigh scale in some remote location, just paid a stiff fine, and not allowed to move their rigs because they couldn't get legal? Don't you think HR and the other makers know that? Just how many new rigs do you think they would be selling with a history of their rigs being stopped, weighed, and held because they can't get legal?

[ShapeShifter]

Wadcutter wrote:
"20 k is the axle rating. I would say somewhere around 17 k for normally loaded and if it has a tag axle that weight can be adjusted thru the tag."

So it's just his guess. And that means what? Add the fact that he's talking about a tag axle that wasn't announced until several years later, and still is not in production on that model, and it's clear that he doesn't really have much credibility.

Or perhaps his guess is more credible than a certified scale slip?

Looking at it another way, riddle me this Batman: The CCC calculation sticker on my rig states that it has much less than 3,000 pounds of CCC for both axles, and some of that CCC is on the front axle. That means that the avaialable capacity for the rear axle is significantly less than 3,000 pounds. So, when "normally loaded," how can the rear axle weight be 3,000 pounds less than the rating? The math clearly doesn't add up. Yet another indication that perhaps the person who answered your email was mistaken.

Go ahead and believe what you want. I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm just trying to make sure that someone who might be in the same situation doesn't have their head stuck in the sand, and if they think they might be close they should get themselves weighed. It's a common scenario on this forum that when people finally do weigh their rigs, they are surprised by just how much weight they are carrying around.

[Wadcutter]

I sent an email to Holiday Rambler asking what a model listed on your profile would weigh. I specifically asked due to the legal axle weight limits. Here's their response:
"20 k is the axle rating. I would say somewhere around 17 k for normally loaded and if it has a tag axle that weight can be adjusted thru the tag."
Yours must be special or you're carrying Lucy's rock collection.
Like I wrote, I've weighed quite a few Class As, including 2 axle models, and have never come across one running as heavy as you claim yours is.

[ShapeShifter]

Wadcutter wrote:
Don't confuse axle weight rating with actual weight on the axle. Just because it's rated for 23K doesn't mean that it has anywhere near that much weight on the axle. Also, don't confuse GVWR with GCWR.

I'm not confusing the actual weights and the ratings, we had this conversation already a couple months ago.

And you're right, I am making an assumption about the weight on the 23k axle. But that assumption is based on the model being "upgraded" each year with new features, and therefore getting heavier. Part of my logic is that two years after mine they moved from a 20k to 23k axle. Heavier rated axles cost more money, which means less profit. Why would they put in a heavier axle if they didn't need to do so?

And even if it's not over 20k from the factory, someone's going to see that 23k rating and figure it's safe to bring along their rock collection, like Lucy's character Tacy in "The Long Long Trailer!" :E

Another part of the logic is that after moving to the 23k axle rating, they announced that the next model year (2010) would feature a tag axle on that coach (but then they went bankrupt and only the two prototypes were ever made.) Again, tag axles are expensive, why would they put one on if not needed?

I'm not trying to belabor the point. And I will readily admit that it's not something that a majority of the RV owners will ever have to worry about. But there are some out there.

[Wadcutter]

Don't confuse axle weight rating with actual weight on the axle. Just because it's rated for 23K doesn't mean that it has anywhere near that much weight on the axle. Also, don't confuse GVWR with GCWR.
I looked at your profile to see what rig you have that is so heavy. I have weighed quite a few rigs your size of various makes and have never found one yet that actually had 20K on a single axle. Maybe yours is special.

[ShapeShifter]

pupeperson wrote:
Shapeshifter: It sounds to me like your coach needs a tag axle.

That would be nice. Maybe in the next rig, I can't see where it would be worthwhile to try and retrofit something like that. In my case, it's not that big of a deal, at best we're talking a couple hundred pounds. The tag axle would weight lots more than that.

I didn't bring it up to discuss my situation specifically. It was just to make a point that the comment that an RVer never has to worry about the 20,000 pound axle limit is not necessarily true. I agree that most don't have to worry about it, but many do. Just looking at my particular model, 2007 HR Endeavor, which is arguably one of the more popular DP models, it's loaded in the neighborhood of 19,000 pounds on the rear axle as it comes from the factory. That doesn't give you a lot of carrying capacity, especially when you consider the size of the basement storage compartments and the amount of cabinet space.

And that 20,000 pound weight was in 2007. Looking at the 2009 brochure, the rear axle rating has been increased to 23,000 pounds. I can't imagine that they went to larger (and more expensive) rear axle just so that the owner can think they have more cargo carrying capacity. While I don't have the dry weights of the new models, my gut feeling is that they went with the heavier axle because the base weight is now over 20,000 pounds. If that's so, the empty rig would be illegal as it left the factory! And even if that isn't the case, any owner that loaded it up anywhere near the axle rating would be seriously over the federal limit.

And that model is not the only one. From what I've read on here, it's actually quite common in the larger DPs. At the time mine came out with it's 20,000 pound axle, I was reading about rigs that came from the factory with a 22,000 pound axle. I'll bet that if you look closely, it's more prevalent than you think.

My point is not to complain about my rig, or any of these other rigs. All I want to do is make people aware that while everyone should weigh their rigs to make sure they are within their equipment ratings, there are those who also really do need to worry about the 20,000 pound per axle federal weight limit. I only mention my rig to show that concept is not just theoretical.

[pupeperson]

Shapeshifter: It sounds to me like your coach needs a tag axle. Perhaps it would be possible to mount one behind your present drive axle. These axles are often installed on heavy trucks forward of the front drive axle. They are liftable and many are also steerable, in the sense that they are spring loaded and will turn with the vehicle as required. They typically add about 8000 lbs of load carrying capacity and that too is adjustable I believe, determined by the amount of air pressure you allow into their air bags. It would be something to consider if you are really concerned about being stopped, weighed fined and parked. If you decided to get a tag axle, I would make certain that it is liftable in the event you are presented with a low traction situation. Transferring all the weight the tag would carry back to the driven axle would aid your traction immensely when and if the additional traction was needed.