Actual federal weight law rules, some questions and answers

[jmramiller]

I have per the request of a few members, stickied this post. Please note, this is not a place to argue whether a law makes sense or not, just what the laws are. If you have a question about wt laws, that appears to be NOT answered in some way shape or form, please ask, and hopefully some of the ACTUAL weights and measures LEO's will answer, or those with some actual knowledge.

In the mean time, I do thank the OP for starting this thread, altho I have taken the liberty to change the title to one I think and hope will be a bit more informative in name.

marty
TV moderator

Some on this forum suggests that RAWR per the door sticker is legally binding by federal law. Specifically by para f of FMCSA:

(f) Except as provided herein, States may not enforce on the Interstate System vehicle weight limits of less than 20,000 pounds on a single axle, 34,000 pounds on a tandem axle, or the weights derived from the Bridge Formula, up to a maximum of 80,000 pounds, including all enforcement tolerances. States may not limit tire loads to less than 500 pounds per inch of tire or tread width, except that such limits may not be applied to tires on the steering axle. States may not limit steering axle weights to less than 20,000 pounds or the axle rating established by the manufacturer, whichever is lower.

The argument is that the last half of the last sentence "the axle rating established by the manufacturer, whichever is lower." is referring to the door sticker RAWR.

It is my contention that this actually refers to the "steering axle" which according to my English classes is the subject of the sentence. My contention is to find a standard relating to the rear axle in para f you have to refer back to the first sentence:
"States may not enforce on the Interstate System vehicle weight limits of less than 20,000 pounds on a single axle"

I would like to hear from LEO's who might have a comment on this subject. I would also love to hear from anyone who can post a copy of a citation issued for exceeding door sticker weight ratings. A link to the violated code would be nice also.

My only agenda here is to find out what really is and what really is not. I have intentionally omitted the names of those who make these claims because I want this to be about the law not people's claims.

Thanks.

[azcamping]

.

[pupeperson]

Hook47 said: "For pupeperson, if you go to the Goodyear site and look for the pdf file labeled loadinflation, you will find out that the load rating of the tire as indicated on the tire is not a real limit. You can increase that load limit by increasing pressure and decreasing speed."

Yes. That is correct, to a point. I believe it is unreasonable to list loads that cannot be carried at highway speeds. I also think it would be difficult to explain those precise nuances to most folks, including those who might give you a ticket for exceeding the weight rating molded on the tire sidewall. Increasing pressures above the listed maximum is normally limited to 5psi and 5mph and applies predominantly to ST rated tires

In any case, that is why I gave both the size tire and the specific inflation pressure posted by Goodyear, which exactly comes to 5400 lbs. times 2= 10,800 lbs which is what AAM rates the 11.5 inch axles under Dodges and GM light trucks for -- 10,800 lbs. You could actually go down in size to a 255/70R22.5 and up in load range and inflate it to 115 psi and have exactly the same load rating -- 5400 lbs.

[hook47]

It has been a while since I read this thread. Glad to see it is a "sticky" or whatever you want to call it. To me it is "same old s#@^ different day". For pupeperson, if you go to the Goodyear site and look for the pdf file labeled loadinflation, you will find out that the load rating of the tire as indicated on the tire is not a real limit. You can increase that load limit by increasing pressure and decreasing speed. Wheels need to be good for the increase in pressure.

For all of those folks that want the OEM ratings to be law, how about going out and loading your pickup truck (that is the class of truck we are dealing with, right?) to a weight significantly over the door sticker. Then, go find a Law Enforcement Officer or any other person with the legal right to write citations of illegal activity and have them weigh your vehicle and or vehicle and trailer and see if they will give you a ticket for being over OEM ratings. Then scan that ticket and post it here. If you are ticketed for being over OEM, nothing else such as over what you are licensed for, just tell the judge that you were doing a public service to prove to all that the door sticker is a law, as far as the ratings are concerned.

Get ticketed. That will shut us up.

[blt2ski]

How abouts if you two Jims would agree to disagree on the subject, until it can be proven one way or the other?

marty

[JIMNLIN]

bash me if it pleases you but it still won't change those regs in question. bash on basher.
Arguing about regs can go on and on and becomes opinion which reverts to posts like the last few (personel attacks) which has nothing to do with answering your question door tag GAWR have in weight enforcement for our class trucks. Those regs I gave in above posts are for our size trucks (above 10k and below 10k). The door placard GVWR/GAWR is there per 567.4 which is found on DOT/FMZSS/NHTSA regs. Definitions of GAWR/GVWR are given by FMCSA 571.3 regs.
I suggest reading those regs for your benifit and if you don't understand how your state enforces just make a call or better yet a personel visit with a real dot officer from your state. I didn't make those regs or even interpet them.
This is my last post so take your best shot
JIM

[jmramiller]

JIMNLIN wrote:
yeah, its quite evident some are to stupid to read/interpet and find guidence from your/our state dot/weight inforce division on regs in question.
The thread is a stickis about actual fed weight law rules wich FMCSA provides per part 658/571/573. Also NHTSA/FMZSS regs to consider with the same parts enters into weight regs per 49 CFRs. So far some refuse to admit they are revelent and bash the messenger.

That would be "too" stupid not "to" stupid, “interpret” not “interpet”, “guidance” not guidence”, “which” not “wich”, “enforce” not “inforce”, “relevant” not “revelent”.

I'm not sure what a "stickis" is, unless you are talking about a "sticky".

How do you expect to properly "interpet" the "guidence" you receive with this level (lack of) communication skills?

Perhaps the state of OK should be more focused on public education than highway weight enforcement.

So in response "to" stupid, I believe you have proven Dr. Albert Einstein correct.

The messenger should only be bashed when he screws up the message. In this case all bashing is clearly justified.

[JIMNLIN]

yeah, its quite evident some are to stupid to read/interpet and find guidence from your/our state dot/weight inforce division on regs in question.
The thread is a stickis about actual fed weight law rules wich FMCSA provides per part 658/571/573. Also NHTSA/FMZSS regs to consider with the same parts enters into weight regs per 49 CFRs. So far some refuse to admit they are revelent and bash the messenger.

[grey_eagle]

Dr. Albert Einstein (1879-1955) probably said it best with his quote of --

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."

[Wadcutter]

jmramiller wrote:
Wadcutter, you were right about trying to convince some people of the truth. Some get it, some don't. There are a few here who just don't.

Yup, some don't get it. They just don't have the reading comprehension ability to understand what they read. Oh well, most reading this thread understand. It's obvious who didn't. And that's OK too. People like that keep my wife employed. She's a Special Ed teacher. :B

[jmramiller]

Wadcutter, you were right about trying to convince some people of the truth. Some get it, some don't. There are a few here who just don't.

[JIMNLIN]

pepurperson
FMCSA reg 49 cfr 571.110 and 571.120 are the regs that ties the vehicle manufactors GAWR (placard) and tires capacity. When we look at S5.1.2 it says "if the tires size designation of the tires fitted to the axle does not appear on the certification lable, the sum shall be not less than the lowest GAWR appearing on the label. The label (door tag) is required per 49 cfr part 657.4 which has the vehicle manufactors GVWR and GAWR. As I stated above my neighbor lady (longhauler/hotshot) came up with that reg as she just tagged her new '07 6.7 Cummins CR 3500 for over 26000 lbs combined.
================================================================================
gunpilot
you are correct. Guess I could have said it a little clearer. My state is required to operate per FMCSA for our commercial operators. But we do use those placard (door tag) GVWR and GAWR and tires capacity for non commercial weight capacities. 49 cfr part 571.3 gives us our definitions of GVWR/GAWR.
I had the very same thing happen on one of the companies we sub contracted through GNs flatbed. TX DOT crawled under the trailer and got the axle capacity from the axles. He added both axle numbers and I was just under. His comment was I was lucky. If he hadn't found those axle tags it meant impounding till I came up with some GVWR tag or axle tags from the axle manufactor.
================================================================================
jmramiller
those big numbers are max loads. Our size trucks come under those regs for over 10000 lb GVWR and 10000 GVWR and under such as 571.110 and 571.120 regs. Look at 49 cfr 571.3 gives us the definitions of GAWR/GVWR/GCWR. It states that GAWR is the vehicle manufactor rating per door placard.
Think about it. If we are using a 3500 DRW truck with a 12000 GVWR and are going to haul commercial with a trailer we are required to tag the combination (truck/trailer) for the trucks 12000 GVWR and the trailers 16000 GVWR. Add those together (28000 lb) will be what you are tagged to haul. GVWR comes from the trucks door tag and the trailers GVWR comes from its placard. To balance the load on the truck we go to FAWR/RAWR which is on the door tag. Both are required by FMCSA. The regs are there and they have to be dug out and the most important part is finding how they are interpeted and enforced.

JIM
JIM

[Wadcutter]

BertP wrote:
Right - sorry, again if I understand correctly, the FMCSA's jurisdiction is limited to the Interstates, isn't it? So, if the FMCSA says a min GVW of 80K, it is referring to the interstates and not other State highways.

Bert

FMCSA doesn't involve weights. FMCSA deals with things like equipment issues and driver qualifications. Weights are something else entirely separate from FMCSA.

[BertP]

Right - sorry, again if I understand correctly, the FMCSA's jurisdiction is limited to the Interstates, isn't it? So, if the FMCSA says a min GVW of 80K, it is referring to the interstates and not other State highways.

Bert

[Wadcutter]

BertP wrote:
Unless I'm reading this wrong, isn't that what Jim said? In other words, the FMCSA says that the max gvw for a commercial truck is 80K lb, but a State is free to enforce a higher weight than that - just not a lower weight. According to this link, the max GVW's in the US vary from 80 K lb to unlimited.

Bert

Nope. In IL the max weight on roads is 73,280 except for designated highways which can be up to 80,000. That includes interstates and most state highways.
I'm sure as heck not going to get into Class I, II, and III level highways as it doesn't have anything to do with the OP's original question.

[BertP]

Unless I'm reading this wrong, isn't that what Jim said? In other words, the FMCSA says that the max gvw for a commercial truck is 80K lb, but a State is free to enforce a higher weight than that - just not a lower weight. According to this link, the max GVW's in the US vary from 80 K lb to unlimited.

Bert