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Rogue MegaWatt 30Amp bulk charger.

NinerBikes
Explorer
Explorer
Been using my Megawatt 30 amp PSU now for over a year with the fine adjust pot, when mxwanderer suggested a 500 ohm 2 watt 10 screw potientiometer to replace the rather touchy one screw micro pot.

Not having the means to solder the new 500ohm 10 screw $6 Bourne pot in place With micromeasure counter on top, I sought the services of a ham radio guru, who also happens to build antenna's for digital TV stations, for a living. Namely SCVJeff, as we've met and camped together at Quartzsite, and in general, the guy plays with electronic stuff that would make my head spin, so a solder job for him was child's play.

Since he was curious, we measured the micro pot on the unit as a 900 ohm resistance unit. Replacement was a 500 ohm unit.

This is the voltage range now with the 500 ohm unit.







Circuit board from a Megawatt S-350-12



Top side.



Finished, haven't decided how I will attach yet the new 10 screw pot, but numerical locking dial settings will make voltage output repeatable.




Another view.




Note the zip ties, extensive use of heat shrink wrap and professional grade quality of all the connections. The heat transfer paste from the factory was, at best, marginal. Jeff made sure to use the good stuff, and in generous quantity, to get the heat out of the electronics, and transferred to the external aluminum case.

BTW, it took 4 pair of hands to remove the circuit board out of the chassis, it is a tight fit.

I'd like to express a deep level of gratitude and thanks to SCVJeff for helping this old hack carpenter that's only ever worked pretty much with 120V and 240V with some minute, clean circuit board soldering repair and replace, since I don't own the tools or knowledge to do work at this level. Special thanks is also due to mexicowanderer, who first found this PSU, saw the fit to dry campers or off the grid campers needs, and used my money and me as the successful guinea pig to even attempt this Rogue venture. I find it some of the best money spent by me for doing exactly what I need in a bulk charging timed battery charger. It will be effortless for me to dial in the exact 13.50 + -.02V I need now for my exotic Telecom 158 AH AGM battery, and it's exotic voltage needs for properly recharging.

If you are in the same boat as me, there is probably none better that an old hand Ham Radio operator or pro to touch soldering on your circuit boards without botching the job. BTW, the Bourne pot terminals needed some serious scraping and cleaning up to get the solder to adhere to them. When it comes to electronics and circuit boards, it's not worth it to cut corners, do it right, the first time. His attention to detail, and having all the tools there to measure, a variac, Fluke DMM, copper weave for wicking solder off the old pot and off the circuit board, cleaning up terminals before resoldering, tie wraps, heat shrink, etc, etc is what is the sign of a person that takes pride in their craftsmenship.

I hope this helps some of you that are on the fence about building your own 14.8V MANUAL timed bulk charger for your dry camping applications off the grid.
38 REPLIES 38

NinerBikes
Explorer
Explorer
I'm not scoping it, nor is Jeff. If he says it's a non issue, I have complete trust in his word, no one else here is in much of a position to dispute what he claims, or has the measuring devices to confirm or deny it.

Time to go camping and test out the new Telecom AGM battery and the Rogue MegaWatt. Until I get back, please play nice in the sandbox together, y'all. You're turning a generous favor into a d*ck dragging contest that's getting ugly about what the majority here consider a non issue with induction or feedback issues.

If I need to view or worry about oscillations, I'll watch DAX do jumping jacks in a fishnet stocking outfit in the street. Yes, images do exist... scope it out yourself, if you must.

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
I am frustrated because my scope is 2,500 miles from here. SCVJeff thank you and please if you can parallel a 120vac cord three or four inches from the pot extension wires and see if the scope trace shows any sign of disturbance. I took someone's supposed expertise when I should have been digging out the BS detector.

SCVJeff
Explorer
Explorer
Thankyou, Its exactly like that. I dont know why everyones panties are all bunched up but this simply is not an issue and if i have to prove it ill go get niners PS and hang a scope on it if it will end the bickering. ITS A LOW IMPEDENCE CIRCUIT! You simply dont pick up EMI like that unless its in very near proximity (and very strong). And someome please dont bring up lightening because its a one time event and who cares anyway. I cant believe with all the smart guys around here that someone will nitpic 6" of shielded wire thats already twisted to begin with. Geeeze, isnt there something else to complin about ?
Jeff - WA6EQU
'06 Itasca Meridian 34H, CAT C7/350

MrWizard
Moderator
Moderator
No. Not variac
Just plain ol normal adjustable bench power supply used to power equipment being tested OR worked on
Those voltage and current dials are not mounted on the circuit board/chassis, the are mounted in the face plate, and wired to the circuit board, very similar to this mega watt mod
I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !

....

Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s

NinerBikes
Explorer
Explorer
MrWizard wrote:
I have to ask (except for the lack of a face plate mounting)

How is this any different than a work bench power supply, with vernier knobs for voltage control, mounted in the face plate and "cabled" to the circuit board


Do you mean like a Variac? I don't know, I'll let Salvo explain with a professional opinion.

MrWizard
Moderator
Moderator
I have to ask (except for the lack of a face plate mounting)

How is this any different than a work bench power supply, with vernier knobs for voltage control, mounted in the face plate and "cabled" to the circuit board

I really don't expect any kind of induction or feedback oscillation issues
I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !

....

Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s

NinerBikes
Explorer
Explorer
Salvo wrote:
LOL, I don't give sh*t what happens to you're PS.

It appears to me you two think this is a pissing match. However, I just gave my professional opinion. Do with it what you want. Not going to waist my time with non appreciative, cocky people.

NinerBikes wrote:


...if you are really curious and can't wait, get a MegaWatt, mod it yourself and find out for us.... otherwise some patience is in order, and that's if SCVjeff doesn't have a lot of better things to do with what limited spare time he has. He did this for me as a big favor, I don't want my posting up of the favor he gave me becoming a pizzing contest between a couple of EE guys, so if you have questions, PM each other, or not, if out of respect for each other.


Thank you for your professional opinion. I guess modifying these power supplies is to be frowned upon, then, until more is known.

if I roast a $50 power supply that I modified, I'll post up and just buy another stock one, and leave it stock. It will have been a cheap lesson, in the grand scheme of things, in my lifetime.

NinerBikes
Explorer
Explorer
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Using the OE pot at max 1K as a pull down resistor, this means LEAVING the oe pot in place, an open circuit to the remote pot becomes a moot point. The control circuit will default to the original pot setting. I am more concerned with inductance than I am with ESD which should NOT be a concern if the circuit is fully shielded, grounded and sealed.

Don't know how much experience you have with lightning but I have seen s frightening amount of voltage induced into isolated circuits. Long lengths of wire, coils, transformers, you name it. The E level is not harmful to humans indeed I doubt whether it could be felt at all, but to an ultra-sensitive circuit the risk isn't worth ignoring.

UN-flat on a 20mv scale is rather loose terminology. However now I am musing the validity of screening the two Megas using a basic Faraday shield. Nicaragua is a hell of a bad place to discover circuit design weaknesses or vulnerabilities.

Sorry Niner, I was using euphemisms to describe tolerating or weighing an unknown risk versus an unknown hazard. For a general idea of one electronic phenomenon, Google ELECTRONIC TANK CIRCUIT, read and understand what it means.

One little, two little, three little millivolts. Four little, five little, six little millivolts...


There's not a lot of lightning storms in Los Angeles, proper. In the desert, further east, during monsoon season, yes. My experience with lightning is that once, while fly fishing with a 9 foot graphite fly rod while on Hot Creek near Mammoth Lakes, as a warm moist gulf of Mexico front pushed in from Nevada to the east, into a cold front coming out of Alaska, I saw it start pouring rain, the baetis emerger hatch went wild and the bite went wide open sub surface. Withing about 6 or 7 minutes, in the rain, with soaked pull over in the summer, I felt the hair on my hands, arms, back of my neck, everywhere, start standing up, while casting.

I immediately set my fly rod down, and crawled under some rocks in the Gorge there, a distance away. I did not want to be the tallest object with the least amount of resistance to complete the circuit.

Salvo
Explorer
Explorer
LOL, I don't give sh*t what happens to you're PS.

It appears to me you two think this is a pissing match. However, I just gave my professional opinion. Do with it what you want. Not going to waist my time with non appreciative, cocky people.

NinerBikes wrote:


...if you are really curious and can't wait, get a MegaWatt, mod it yourself and find out for us.... otherwise some patience is in order, and that's if SCVjeff doesn't have a lot of better things to do with what limited spare time he has. He did this for me as a big favor, I don't want my posting up of the favor he gave me becoming a pizzing contest between a couple of EE guys, so if you have questions, PM each other, or not, if out of respect for each other.

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
Using the OE pot at max 1K as a pull down resistor, this means LEAVING the oe pot in place, an open circuit to the remote pot becomes a moot point. The control circuit will default to the original pot setting. I am more concerned with inductance than I am with ESD which should NOT be a concern if the circuit is fully shielded, grounded and sealed.

Don't know how much experience you have with lightning but I have seen s frightening amount of voltage induced into isolated circuits. Long lengths of wire, coils, transformers, you name it. The E level is not harmful to humans indeed I doubt whether it could be felt at all, but to an ultra-sensitive circuit the risk isn't worth ignoring.

UN-flat on a 20mv scale is rather loose terminology. However now I am musing the validity of screening the two Megas using a basic Faraday shield. Nicaragua is a hell of a bad place to discover circuit design weaknesses or vulnerabilities.

Sorry Niner, I was using euphemisms to describe tolerating or weighing an unknown risk versus an unknown hazard. For a general idea of one electronic phenomenon, Google ELECTRONIC TANK CIRCUIT, read and understand what it means.

One little, two little, three little millivolts. Four little, five little, six little millivolts...

NinerBikes
Explorer
Explorer
Salvo wrote:
Here I though I was done with this topic.

The worst case scenario for any PS is turning it into an oscillator. I'm not saying that's the case there, but after the mod, the PS should be tested for oscillator tendencies. After all, the cable is connected to the most sensitive area within the PS.

You can minimize noise injection by limiting the cable length to <1.5" and using a bracket to mount the pot. Now there's no human body contact with the cable.

If there is oscillation, it's most likely not going to affect the battery as it is a huge capacitor. Perhaps you now have a "pulse charger". The oscillations may however exceed the limits of some of the components within the PS. That would be the primary concern.

Before doing anything further, I would test the output (unloaded) with a scope (ac setting, 200 mV/div). If the trace is flat, even when grabbing the cable or pot, then no further work in required.

Another potential problem is if one of the pot cables breaks off. What happens to the output voltage? Does it go to zero volts or does it go sky high? Or is it limited to a safe value? If it goes high you'll hear the output caps go pop. The PS reliability definitely decreased with the added pot. Mounting the pot to a bracket will help a lot.


The pot, in this case is most likely set it and forget it. The pot will be mounted to the case with a roughed up surface on the case and on the bottom of the pot, with some Shoe Goo. It will be permanently attached.

I baby my equipment, the possibility of failure at a solder joint is none to none. If you disconnect the continuity of this circuit due to a broken circuit, the voltage drops, if you complete the circuit with no resistance, the voltage goes to 15.66V or thereabouts. With the circuit broken, what do you think is going to happen to DC input? It goes to nothing, or not?

I am about to head out on a 2 week trip, and SCV has bigger fish to fry right now with the wife's AC in her car being down, it being the weekend, and the temps being triple digits down here, so, if you are really curious and can't wait, get a MegaWatt, mod it yourself and find out for us.... otherwise some patience is in order, and that's if SCVjeff doesn't have a lot of better things to do with what limited spare time he has. He did this for me as a big favor, I don't want my posting up of the favor he gave me becoming a pizzing contest between a couple of EE guys, so if you have questions, PM each other, or not, if out of respect for each other.

Salvo
Explorer
Explorer
Here I though I was done with this topic.

The worst case scenario for any PS is turning it into an oscillator. I'm not saying that's the case there, but after the mod, the PS should be tested for oscillator tendencies. After all, the cable is connected to the most sensitive area within the PS.

You can minimize noise injection by limiting the cable length to <1.5" and using a bracket to mount the pot. Now there's no human body contact with the cable.

If there is oscillation, it's most likely not going to affect the battery as it is a huge capacitor. Perhaps you now have a "pulse charger". The oscillations may however exceed the limits of some of the components within the PS. That would be the primary concern.

Before doing anything further, I would test the output (unloaded) with a scope (ac setting, 200 mV/div). If the trace is flat, even when grabbing the cable or pot, then no further work in required.

Another potential problem is if one of the pot cables breaks off. What happens to the output voltage? Does it go to zero volts or does it go sky high? Or is it limited to a safe value? If it goes high you'll hear the output caps go pop. The PS reliability definitely decreased with the added pot. Mounting the pot to a bracket will help a lot.

westend
Explorer
Explorer
If any Forum members wish to have their pot cable sheathed and protected from interference, I have some Alpha communication wire gathering dust. It is 24ga. teflon jacketed 3 x conductor in woven sheath with teflon outer jacket. I use it in audio gear where signal integrity may be an issue. A foot of it is easy to ship and the price will be right. PM me.
'03 F-250 4x4 CC
'71 Starcraft Wanderstar -- The Cowboy/Hilton

NinerBikes
Explorer
Explorer
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Salvo wrote:
I wouldn't call it a non-issue until you've verified the output has no excessive ripple. You can't see that with a dc meter. You need a scope set to ac and 200 mV/div. If that's flat, THEN there's no problem.


I am going to assume max ripple at max watts. Some data was provided except for your thoughts regarding max permissible ripple in relationship to near perfect <2.0 MV. You wrote you specialize in power supply design. So surely there must be a worry-point with regard to ripple on this section of the circuit.

Yeah I have to play 'Fraidy Cat because of where I live. In theory a strong bolt of nearby lightning can influence a hypersensitive circuit. So call me chicken. It depends on Salvo's answer. Max mv ripple permitted.

Might as well buy a couple of meters of shielded pair wire. Don't forget Niner your plastic rheostat itself is a coil subject to inductance. I have seen bad juju results of circuit resonance ringing and I ain't too keen on shortcutting and getting whacked by an inside straight.


I've no idea what you're saying about shortcuts , getting whacked by an inside straight. Have to put it in laymen's terms for me Mex, not type in hyperbole.

I don't camp and run the generator outside when it's raining and I hear thunder in the distance. It gets shut off and pulled inside, out of the rain. Very basic rule of thumb for me. Portable Honda means it's under constant supervision by me when charging, lest it grow legs and walk off. So I tie flys or what ever for an hour or so if necessary, while the megawatt does it's thing.