12 volt only refrigerator

[nmhuntr]

A friend of mine just bought a new TT. It has a 12 volt only refrigerator. I am completely unfamiliar with this type refrigerator. Is this the new move on TTers? Is it better that a 120 volt/propane unit? My propane unit works great and it is 15 years old. I cool it down with 120 volts and then it keeps up just fine. I am asking because I am looking into getting a newer TT and I am now concerned that I won’t be able to get a propane unit.

Thanks for your insight and experiences.

[Chinolbz]

I just installed a 12v fridge marketed by GE. Huge inside, fit the old dometic hole without spacers or trim. In one hour the freezer was down to 3 degrees! Looking forward to a long term test. Chino.

[dougrainer]

OK, the original OP asked about 12 volt RV refers. YES, Dometic, Norcold and a new company(2015) WAY, have started building 12 volt Compressor RV refers. The main advantage is MORE interior space in the same size RV cabinet cut out, due to losing the rear Cooling unit. Most will run up to 40 hours on a single 27 series RV deep cycle battery. So, with a modest roof top Solar system you can run the refers for boondocking. Doug

[wa8yxm]

Combining the last two posts
I recently purchased a 25 AH LiFePO4 battery and charger..
I can easily pick this thing up with one hand in the manner of a pound of butter (Fingers either side) What's more I can use over 20 of those 25 Amp Hours before the voltage starts to drop significantly
That makes it about the usable capacity of a Group 27 MARINE/deep cycle

The BLF 1225 Weight: 5.8 lbs. (2.6 kg)
A common Group 27 Weight 59. pounds

You can lug a whole lot more AHs with LiFePO4

That said the battery maker does not recommend parallel operation of their batteries.. But some companies make higher capacity models.

[mr_andyj]

Li batteries are not necessary for 12v fridges, they run just fine on any battery.

I just did a weekend trip to the mountains. Parked in the forest under heavy canopy of trees with the fridge running. It did fine the first night of course with full charge, then the next day in late afternoon the fridge still said 13.6 volts, which is full charge. This is from 200 watts of solar under partial shade (some light always gets through the trees).

I would have done at least 300 watts of solar if to do again, but my 200 is in series and I havent figured how to add one more panel. No room for two. Maybe I can add the third panel is series too....

[Almot]

The trend towards 12V fridges has been made possible with introduction of Li batteries, especially affordable now with many Chinese brands. This takes care of one of the requirements that I wrote earlier - big battery bank.
Solar panels prices dropped significantly over the last 7 years.
Controllers TAD dropped, not much. Morningstar MPPT is still costly but less known brands like Epever and Renogy are becoming popular with 40A MPPT selling for less than $200.
Offbrand supplies like solar cable with connectors made by god-knows-who have flooded the market.
Trailer manufacturers have a lot of catching up to do, they put 12V box in but their OEM solar options are a joke, usually.

12V fridges were not too bad 10 years ago, then Danfoss improved something in control board and compressor failure rate went down. Changed the name too, it's now Secop.

[Vintage465]

nmhuntr wrote:
A friend of mine just bought a new TT. It has a 12 volt only refrigerator. I am completely unfamiliar with this type refrigerator. Is this the new move on TTers? Is it better that a 120 volt/propane unit? My propane unit works great and it is 15 years old. I cool it down with 120 volts and then it keeps up just fine. I am asking because I am looking into getting a newer TT and I am now concerned that I won’t be able to get a propane unit.

Thanks for your insight and experiences.

I think the trend seems to be moving to 12v fridges. They are far better now then in the past. Personally I don't really see the reason for this unless you can't or won't have a couple propane tanks on your coach. And.........I know all the details about there being more room in the 12v vs propane. For boon docking I don't know why anyone would want anything but a propane fridge. 14 gallons of propane will keep a fridge cold for about 30 days while using the water heater. That's a long time with no worries. I don't need to set up a generator. I don't need to put out additional solar. I don't need to add more batteries. Meaning, I can just arrive, plant the trailer and start enjoying.............but this is just my humble opinion.....

[Almot]

JimK-NY wrote:

No, the draw is going to be a lot more than a propane fridge "thermostat". My truck camper has a relatively small Nova Kool compressor fridge. It is about 4 cuft and pulls about 2.5-3.0 amps when running. It does great in 70 degree weather or less but when the temps are higher in the Summer it runs almost constantly.

Your fridge is HUGE, for a truck camper :). I saw people installing 2 cu.ft, at 70-77F it draws 20-25 AH per 24 hrs with added insulation. Still a lot of draw, by my standards. Circuit board of my 7 cu.ft propane fridge draws 8 AH/24 hrs, can't beat that.

[philh]

I wanted one in our ordered 5th wheel, but mfg isn't doing them yet 😞

[mbopp]

Some new Grand Designs (Transcend?) come with 12V compressor fridges but also have a 165W solar panel on the roof.

[n0arp]

JimK-NY wrote:

Almot wrote:
.....Truck campers are a different scenario again, they are moving from place to place often, alternator is charging nicely, and their 12V boxes are typically tiny, drawing not much more than a thermostat of propane fridge.

No, the draw is going to be a lot more than a propane fridge "thermostat". My truck camper has a relatively small Nova Kool compressor fridge. It is about 4 cuft and pulls about 2.5-3.0 amps when running. It does great in 70 degree weather or less but when the temps are higher in the Summer it runs almost constantly. It can easily pull 50 AH per day. It can pull my 300 AH battery bank to 50% in about 3 days and with other power uses, I only have about 2 days of capacity.

My TC doesn't charge from the alternator, usually stays in place a week or two at a time, has an 8 cu. ft. Norcold, etc, etc. Lots of generalizations there that don't apply to my (and many other) truck campers.

We have 1800W of solar, 11.4kWh (900AH@12V) of Lithium batteries (48V bank), and a separate 130AH Lead Acid 12V bank for 12V loads. We run a JC Refrigeration HVAC conversion on our fridge, which draws 1.0-1.3kWh per day, depending on ambient conditions. And have no issues doing so, even on consecutive days without sun. We're probably the exception as far as truck campers go, but there are lots of fifth wheels out there with large systems that can run residential fridges for days.

We have 3000W of solar and twice the Lithium 48V in our fifth wheel, but only a 100AH (or something trivial) 12V lead acid bank. Our 18 cu. ft. GE residential fridge pulls 1.7-2.1kWh/day, usually hovering around 1.8kWh. Again, we have plenty of energy to go consecutive days without sun. We know many, many people with 600AH BattleBorn banks, which seem to be extremely common, as well as other LiFePO4 banks of various sizes and plenty of solar to keep them charged.

The tiny systems assumed in this thread are not really the norm in my circle, and I'm sure there are plenty of large systems out there that the assumptions in this thread don't apply to. A lot of full-timers have taken to boondocking, and many of them are investing in larger systems in order boondock for extended periods (months on end, traveling every couple weeks) without having to deal with careful conservation measures in day-to-day life. We, in particular, built out systems with the goal of being able to run air conditioning when, for some reason, we're not able to travel with the weather because life doesn't always take you where you want to go. We use an electric convection oven, air fryer, Vitamix, microwave, Instapot, and other appliances without any concern regarding energy consumption, no matter where we are. And appreciate our compressor refrigerators, which have proven to be much more reliable, keep food much better, and be less finicky with 24/7 operation and travel than absorption units.

[JimK-NY]

Almot wrote:
.....Truck campers are a different scenario again, they are moving from place to place often, alternator is charging nicely, and their 12V boxes are typically tiny, drawing not much more than a thermostat of propane fridge.

No, the draw is going to be a lot more than a propane fridge "thermostat". My truck camper has a relatively small Nova Kool compressor fridge. It is about 4 cuft and pulls about 2.5-3.0 amps when running. It does great in 70 degree weather or less but when the temps are higher in the Summer it runs almost constantly. It can easily pull 50 AH per day. It can pull my 300 AH battery bank to 50% in about 3 days and with other power uses, I only have about 2 days of capacity.

[Almot]

Gjac wrote:
Every thing is a trade off based on how you camp and how much stuff you want to add to your TT. I only dry camp usually in the forest away from sun. My Norcold 682 is 25 years old and still works fine with a new burner tube. Two 6v GC batteries last me 7 days without generator use before they reach 50% SOC, so by then I am out of water and my wife wants to do laundry.

x2.
The biggest con of 12V fridge is that it needs power - a lot of it, in terms of an off-grid camping. I have a solar sufficient for my needs, battery bank big enough to ride out any imaginable overcast from April to September, but solar wouldn't always harvest enough for a 6-7 cu.ft 12V box and I am not looking forward to running a generator (or carrying one). I don't camp at high elevations, and when incline is so steep that propane fridge wouldn't work I wouldn't want to camp there either because would roll off my bed 🙂

Boaters are in a different league, they have diesels running for hours, no problem charging. Truck campers are a different scenario again, they are moving from place to place often, alternator is charging nicely, and their 12V boxes are typically tiny, drawing not much more than a thermostat of propane fridge.

[Gjac]

Every thing is a trade off based on how you camp and how much stuff you want to add to your TT. I only dry camp usually in the forest away from sun. My Norcold 682 is 25 years old and still works fine with a new burner tube. Two 6v GC batteries last me 7 days without generator use before they reach 50% SOC, so by then I am out of water and my wife wants to do laundry. Water has always been my limiting factor while dry camping not battery power so no need for solar. I know many people full time or have greater electrical requirements but for the average partimer who likes to dry camp in a NF,NP, or SP CG I would stay with a propane refer. If you always use FHU CG's a cheap residential will work fine.

[chuckbear]

We used a 12-volt only fridge in our boat for many years. It consistently outperformed any 120-volt or 3-way fridge we ever had. It was made by Vitrifrigo. Chuck