Pro-Pride "tuning"

[Flapper]

Got the new 3P installed per directions. Trailer had to go to dealer for some other work, so got to do a 60 mi. road test, with 20 mph tail or quartering winds.

As advertised, the previous sway I had experienced was gone. Things were still a little "wiggly" (which may just be wind gusts), and there was a bit of "suck" from semi's passing me. That may have been more of the semi's blocking the wind, than actual "suck". Nothing at all bad, and I would be very happy driving long days as-is, but wondering if there is a bit more fine tuning I might be doing.
Hitch height currently has trailer 1/4" (at the hitch) nose high of being level. Height adjustments are in about 1 1/2" steps.
Hitch ("stinger") angle is 1 washer - dead straight on to the socket when hitching up.
Current WD is set to bring front fenders back to unloaded height, still have lots of adjustment left to transfer more to the front (will scale it when picking up from the dealer in a few days).

I've had several prior threads about "towability", so can move on to trying other things (tire pressure, tongue weight, etc.) - but if there are suggestions about optimizing the ProPride itself, I'd appreciate hearing them.

[Flapper]

I should make clear - this truck came new with 17" tires, LT, LR "E". They were Goodrich AT's. After 70,000 miles it was time, so switched to Michelin Defender LTX. From scouring the net, these seemed to be well liked by RV'ers and seemed to be better for the ice/snow daily driving Minnesota can throw at one. Of course, 3 months after purchase, I begin to hear that they aren't the best for sidewall stiffness. Load inflation tables for these don't seem to exist. In talking to Michelin, and the help person looking things up, very similar tires from them seem to recommend going about 10 psi above door sticker for the load I will be carrying. So, from 55F/60R to 65F/70R. Max is 80, so still within the margins.
I do have airbags leftover from when I had a fifth. But there are no plans to add them to the mix, so will just continue to air up to the 5lb minimum noted by Firestone.
The order of battle, when I get the TT from the dealer, will be: Make sure tire pressure is at sticker when I leave home. After picking up trailer, stop at the nearby scale and get weights. Air up all tires 10 lb above whatever they read at the truck stop. See what happens on the 60 mi ride home. If possible, check hitch tracking while on the way.

[Slowmover]

On a leaf-sprung truck, movement of the body against the suspension is what is "felt" at the steering wheel with a hard, sharp crosswind (passing truck).

It isn't a problem of tire pressure.

Inflating the tire very much past the point of "equalization" (where pressure rise is minimized; at the value closest to the Load & Pressure Table) decreases handling and braking. Bad idea.

Tune the suspension.

On my 35' TT with HA hitch I did not register a passing truck until the truck bow wave hit the rear of my pickup.

Antiroll bars were the solution.

Tire pressure remained 50-FF and 70-RR per Scale values and Dodge door sticker before and after.

.

[BenK]

Sorry...lots of distractions right now and didn't make it clear in previous post

The OP is going to play with tire PSI and even tire size/types/etc

Point is that the PSI a very large component in this...even more important than or just as important as the class of tire. Discussions all the time of half ton'ers looking to go from "P" class to higher "LT" class, but many do NOT weigh the PSI as high in that effort

The tire images show how PSI can cause a tire to over heat and destroy itself.

Hopefully not the case with the OP, but the point is that the tires had too much sidewall flex and higher PSI will reduce that. Not a cure all, but a component of the possible solution

Once or over a series of over heating cycles...tire material will harden and not be as resilient as before...to create an ever higher heating cycle. This is NOT a snap or instant thing, but over time

An example is that the new era of tires needs to be 'broken in' or 'cured' over a few hundred/thousand miles. Complaints of wiggle, softness or squirrelly handling that goes away after it is broken it...that is the material hardening

[Flapper]

pullin2 wrote:
I tow with a Hensley, which is similar to the ProPride (I think). I've had a similar issue and here's my story...

Like the OP, I was really pleased with the sway control of the Hensley but after a while it seemed to "push" just a little with passing semis. I put my GoPro on the tailgate and discovered my Hensley was off center when pulling on a straight stretch. Here is the video, you can see how it doesn't quite align once I'm on the highway (at about the 1:10 mark I accelerate straight down the highway).
Hensley Video

I called the Hensley folks and they advised adjusting the control arms (lengthen one, and shorten the other) by a few turns of the adjustment nut. I tried this and it aligned the hitch, and seemed to solve the minor "push" from winds and trucks. My WAG is that the trapezoidal relationship between truck/hitch wasn't straight, and with one side slightly "turned" it allowed wind effects from that side. This is my guess (not Hensley folks), but getting them perfectly aligned made it tow like my old fifth wheel.

I don't know whether any of this is useful to you, but I offer it as a possibility. Best of luck... once dialed-in, the Hensley completely solved the sway problems. I assume the ProPride works just as well.

Interesting! The Pro-Pride uses a yoke, rather than the control arms. It is shaped like an upside down "Y", with the single leg of the Y captured in a cross bar going across the A frame of the trailer. But, moving the cross bar right or left should have the same effect as changing the control arms. No camera, but if I find a quiet straightaway, and stop going straight, I should be able to get out and take a look at it.....

[pullin2]

I tow with a Hensley, which is similar to the ProPride (I think). I've had a similar issue and here's my story...

Like the OP, I was really pleased with the sway control of the Hensley but after a while it seemed to "push" just a little with passing semis. I put my GoPro on the tailgate and discovered my Hensley was off center when pulling on a straight stretch. Here is the video, you can see how it doesn't quite align once I'm on the highway (at about the 1:10 mark I accelerate straight down the highway).
Hensley Video


I called the Hensley folks and they advised adjusting the control arms (lengthen one, and shorten the other) by a few turns of the adjustment nut. I tried this and it aligned the hitch, and seemed to solve the minor "push" from winds and trucks. My WAG is that the trapezoidal relationship between truck/hitch wasn't straight, and with one side slightly "turned" it allowed wind effects from that side. This is my guess (not Hensley folks), but getting them perfectly aligned made it tow like my old fifth wheel.

I don't know whether any of this is useful to you, but I offer it as a possibility. Best of luck... once dialed-in, the Hensley completely solved the sway problems. I assume the ProPride works just as well.

[BenK]

Tires...and don't forget wheels...their charactoristics and interaction

Lower profile tires has a stiffer sidewall just by the fact it is shorter. Below add "vs higher profile tire of the same size and load rating"

• The sidewalls thicker and stiffer
• Slip angle is less
• There is less sidewall "roll over" during maneuvers
• There is less surface area to disapate heat
• There is less impact compliance
• Much more sensitive to PSI
• Much more sensitive to wheel rim width vs tire OEM recommended rim width

Today's tire compounds need much longer (time and miles) to break in (cure). Until they break in, they will NOT meet full handling specifications

Ride Quality is pits the metrics against handling/performance. Make your priorities and chose. Ride quality is not on my 'have to have' list and low on my 'nice to have' list

Why my wheels are 16x10 and the tires rim width range 7-8 inches, bead to bead. Since mine are 2 inches wider, the sidewall has almost no sidewall bendback and roll-over is almost none existant...all at 80PSI

So, to the OP, if new tires are in the future...and if the budget allows it...consider wider rims. Up the the OEM's max for that tire. Going over like mine will greatly reduce ride quality, but greatly increase handling (lots and lots)

Always or too often see underinflated and each time see one and able to take a picture...here are some examples of low profile tires that were underinflated...and that truck tire of a higher profile was run underinflated

Tire PSI ratings is NOT just for weight...but, IMHO, more to do with keeping it's shape & within it's temp range "at rated loades/speeds"

{edit}...ah...my 'free' image hosting is not limiting 3rd party posting/hosting...oh well...will repost after finding another hosting site...or if deem worth paying at photobucket.com... 😄 No way am going to pay $399.99/yr...so it's going to take a while to find a better place...

This one found in front one morning and don't know what vehicle, but 'P' class tire and they changed their tire to leave this




Neighor's brothers truck that was towed to his house. He ran it even though 'heard' and 'felt' it running funny. Turns out he lowered the PSI for Ride Quality the week before



This SUV was out front and used it as a teaching moment for Sasha when he was about 8. Lady drove from SF, about 30 miles away, and it blew. She told her husband the ride was too harsh...so he lowered the PSI the day before









{edit}...testing 17jun30 8:55pm...thanks Barney !!!!...now to find the correct ones of tens of thousands in my 4TB image drive.... 🙂

[Flapper]

Thanks all - yep, since it looks like the Pro-Pride is what it is, the tires will be next. Curse of the Internet....spent LOTS of time on various forums/sites looking for best tires to tow with, and didn't get anything solid for specifics, except for the Michelins....and now of course come the opinions that they are not the best (expressed by others, too!) Not that I am arguing against those thoughts, it was just tough to sort out what the alternatives should have been.
Get to repeat the drive test after the 4th, we'll see what airing up will do. JBarca sums that topic up well....

[noteven]

Europe and Australia seem to discuss weight distribution and dynamics more than "get a bigger / larger / dually'er" tow vehicle with more sway riggin'

How a trailer ( "caravan" ) responds to different cargo/fixture locations:

Click here

How a bad day trailering looks like from the driver seat of a Kenworth pulling a road train:

Click here

[Lantley]

nineback wrote:
I don't believe the ProPride or any other WD hitch will stop the pull you get when a big rig passes. What a WD will do is make the trailer and truck move as one piece and thus will not get the sway that would be caused if the trailer and truck moved independently of each other.

Tom

The PP or HA will eliminate the push of the big rigs. I towed with a HA for years and I no longer feared/felt the big rigs.
I also think the OP needs to air his tires to max. PSI.

[Wayfarer]

I don't believe the ProPride or any other WD hitch will stop the pull you get when a big rig passes. What a WD will do is make the trailer and truck move as one piece and thus will not get the sway that would be caused if the trailer and truck moved independently of each other.

Tom

[JBarca]

Flapper wrote:
Tires are not pumped up for the weight, so that may be a large part of it, too (Michelin Defender LTX, 17", LR "E").

You stated a potential issue right here. You have a soft sidewall tires by the design they are made from. If they are not stiff enough, truck wander can still happen even with the Pro-Pride or the Hensley.

If the front or rear of the truck is moving due to side wall flex, the hitch cannot correct for that. The truck has to hold solid to the pavement.

I had a very good friend and a prior RV net moderator with his F250 having this wander/wiggle issue on the older LTX running door sticker pressures. They where also new at the time which can sometimes even more aggravate the issue. Once he aired up the front tires, his issues went away. He was towing a 32 to 34 foot double slide rear bunkhouse Skyline in the 9,000# range with his Hensley.

Think of it this way, if the hitch is holding solid, which it is, and the truck wiggles in the side walls, what due think you will feel in the truck?

Hope this helps

John

[goducks10]

Hannibal wrote:
With an advertised unloaded weight of 6561 lbs and unloaded tongue weight of just 670 lbs with a heavy rear kitchen that will only get heavier, you'll be hard pressed to get your weights moved around to where it tows well. Even if you get your tongue weight up to a good number, you still have a lot of weight aft of the axles. No hitch will eliminate trailer induced sway. Too much force involved.

Exactly. RK trailers normally have heavier DRY tongue weights. Usually the axles are more rearward them most. this allows for rear loading without affecting the handling.

[Hannibal]

With an advertised unloaded weight of 6561 lbs and unloaded tongue weight of just 670 lbs with a heavy rear kitchen that will only get heavier, you'll be hard pressed to get your weights moved around to where it tows well. Even if you get your tongue weight up to a good number, you still have a lot of weight aft of the axles. No hitch will eliminate trailer induced sway. Too much force involved.

[Flapper]

Not saying it is not the truck..but at this point, based on specs and towing a fifth for three years, I'm moving that concern a little further down the list. After TW, as loaded for travel, I still have about 500+ lbs payload left. In several respects, the specs beat many lower end 3/4's. It still may be "not quite". If there's nothing that can be tuned on the hitch itself, I'll move on to tire pressure. TW with this trailer will be almost impossible to change much, unless I carry gold bars in the front.
As noted earlier, the 3P has taken care of a significant amount of the issues. Just looking to get it that last bit that may or may not be possible.