Outdoor sink drain

[rtreptow7]

I'm going to post here too, as I did in Fifth Wheel forum and got no response. We have a 2019 KZ Durango fifth wheel with out door sink and stove. the sink drain has a line that runs under the rv and drains to the ground. There is a fitting there to attach a garden hose and run the drain water away from the camper. That fitting has a spring check valve in it for some reason? I attached a garden hose and the sink won't drain. I have to push the check valve in at the fitting under the camper to get it to drain. I wedged it open with a stick this past weekend for it to work. Found another KZ durango fifth wheel in our campground that was a year older and it does not have that check valve in there. Any idea what the purpose of that valve is? And is there a special hose that attaches to that fitting that will push in the check valve as I screw it on? Thanks.

[4x4van]

Lantley wrote:

You can water your lawn with water from your garden hose no issue.
But a plumbing fixture cannot drain onto your lawn. With or without a tank.

Many municipalities are now allowing grey water to be used for irrigation/lawns, etc, in the name of water conservation.

enblethen wrote:
Grey water can even be from a dish pan!

In California, in or on any State park or State lands, it is illegal to drain or dispose of any waste water that is stored in or generated in a any type of vehicle. But, a tent or primitive camper can dispose of personal waste water as generated on the ground.

So, is the OP's drain from an outside sink "stored in" (no) or "generated in" (no) the vehicle"? I would argue not. Again, are backpackers breaking the law? Are boondocking tenters breaking the law? No. So what's different?

I have an outdoor sink table that I set up next to my RV. It drains into a small collapsible bucket. I typically use it to rinse my hands when BBQing, nothing more (I don't wash dishes in it). When the small (1/2 gallon) bucket is full, I pick it up, walk outside my campsite, and toss it out onto the ground (no, not near other campsites). I refuse to feel guilty about that, nor do I believe that I am breaking the law or harming the environment in any way, shape, or form.

Here's more, from the USDA Forest Service:
Tent campers without holding tanks should observe environmental precautions for the proper disposal of gray water from washing and cooking. It is recommended that they dispose of the water in toilet buildings (which can accommodate a small volume from individual campers) or take the water to areas beyond the developed campground, and disperse over the ground, away from streams.

Again, I believe that the OP's outdoor sink, since it is NOT plumbed into a holding tank, is no different than a tent camper. JMHO, YMMV

[enblethen]

Grey water can even be from a dish pan!

[Lantley]

4x4van wrote:
Water drained directly from an outdoor sink that does not first go into a holding tank is NOT legally considered "grey" water. If it was, you would have an awful lot of illegal tent campers out there.

Interesting thought. But I believe any water that goes down a drain is considered grey water.
You can water your lawn with water from your garden hose no issue.
But a plumbing fixture cannot drain onto your lawn. With or without a tank.

[4x4van]

2gypsies wrote:
First I'd check if it's legal to dump your grey water on the ground in Wisconsin or in that park.

dons2346 wrote:
It makes no difference what kind of soap you use. you are still dumping grey water on the ground.

JimK-NY wrote:
Dumping on the ground is illegal in most States. There are no exceptions for only washing your hands or whatever.

Lantley wrote:
The owner needs to know how to legally use his equipment.
Water discharged from a sink drain is considered grey water.
Grey water dumping is illegal in most places.

Get a grip, people. The OP is not dumping "grey" water. Water drained directly from an outdoor sink that does not first go into a holding tank is NOT legally considered "grey" water. If it was, you would have an awful lot of illegal tent campers out there.

Here's more:

TITLE 43–PUBLIC LANDS: INTERIOR
CHAPTER II–BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT, DEPARTMENT OF THE
INTERIOR
PART 8360_VISITOR SERVICES
Subpart 8365_Rules of Conduct
Sec. 8365.1-1 Sanitation.
(b) On all public lands, no person shall, unless otherwise authorized:
(3) Drain sewage or petroleum products or dump refuse or waste other than wash water from any trailer or other vehicle except in places or receptacles provided for that purpose;

Now, there ARE certain areas that specifically include "wash water" as grey water, but that is generally the exception, not the rule.

[enblethen]

Thanks for update!

[FunnyCamper]

glad ya got it handled so fast and easy rtrep! Cool, when needed go back to the experts for sure on a problem

[rtreptow7]

OP here. Took the camper back in because we had a couple other minor issues to get taken care of. They said there was not supposed to be a check valve at all on that hose connection and they removed it. None of the other durangos have it. Mistake made at the factory that they missed during prep/inspection. He stated again that you just connect a hose to that fitting and use that to drain to a bucket or ground if allowed where camping. No need for a check valve of any kind there.

[FunnyCamper]

holy moley don't hang the OP on this one 🙂
It is the manufacture of the rv he has right now he is trying to deal with and he can handle the grey waste from his sink as he sees fit. (and the OP sounds smart and all and will do as needed obviously in this situation)!

OP call KZ customer service, your best bet. We had a 5th wheel with xyz problem and hubby finally just called customer service to the manufacturer and got a great guy that answered everything and we gained knowledge instead of guessing anymore.

Sometimes it is easiest to go to the best source and save your time vs. what we did on our problem and took forever to get 'no answer' from anyone til hubby just made that call and handled it all 🙂

[riggsp]

All said and done...it sounds to me like the check valve is installed backwards.

[Retired_JSO]

JimK-NY wrote:
Dumping on the ground is illegal in most States. There are no exceptions for only washing your hands or whatever. The restrictions may not always make sense but you can end up with a nasty fine anyway. The neighbors or others don't know what you are dumping.

Next time we are in New York, I’ll dump my leftover soda and ice on the ground and wait for the dump police to site me.

[enblethen]

If the OP is talking about his KZ Durango, it would not be considered fully self-contained.
Dumping grey water into a bucket in many locales is not adequate. It must be completed closed.
Here is an example
Closed containers
I am still thinking it is a flushing attachment and OP is missing a grey water drain valve.
Edit: Look at some photos of the KZ Durango. You will need a container like the one I link earlier in this post.

[Harvey51]

I think it would be more convenient to carry a pail as in tent camping.. Wash hands in a small basin and dump into the pail or just wet hands over the pail. When it gets full carry it to an outhouse. Or just wash up in the RV.

[Lantley]

troubledwaters wrote:
Wow, Some people....

Like it or not, some companies build the RV with the outdoor kitchen sink draining directly to the ground. Yes they built them that way on purpose. Talk to the company, quit blaming the RV Owner, he didn't build it.

OP - It sounds like they installed the check valve backwards.

I don't think we are blaming the owner.
The owner needs to know how to legally use his equipment.
Water discharged from a sink drain is considered grey water.
Grey water dumping is illegal in most places.
If the RV is not equipped with a factory tank to contain the water, The OP will simply need need a bucket or tote to contain the water or risk being fined. If it is not that much water a basic 5 gallon bucket would be fine.

[JimK-NY]

Dumping on the ground is illegal in most States. There are no exceptions for only washing your hands or whatever. The restrictions may not always make sense but you can end up with a nasty fine anyway. The neighbors or others don't know what you are dumping.