Starting Issue

[FloridaRosebud]

Had an interesting issue yesterday. Had just finished fueling up, heading to Perry when the MH would not start. 2006 National Seabreeze LX. Pressed the boost button and still no go. ???. So I had my 600A booster, connected to the engine battery and STILL nothing. Dang, this is not good. First trip to Perry and we're dead before we get on the road. Wife says what if you start the genny? OK, I didn't think the genny charged the engine battery but we'll give it a try. BOOM, started right up. So, without having time yet to look at the schematic, does the genny charge the engine (chassis) battery? What is the standard for a Class A. I'm going to also post this on the National forum on iRV2.

Thanks!!

Al

[DSDP_Don]

So you're correcting your own stuff????

[FloridaRosebud]

DSDP Don wrote:
You know....sometimes some of you can destroy a post with stupid information. What Doug posted is accurate for about 99% of the RV's on the road. Then someone comes along and says his 1948 Shasta trailer conversion with a 63 Buick chassis doesn't work that way. DUH! Some will go out of their way to prove someone wrong when the rest of the group understands that most information is generic to the AVERAGE RV, not some old style charging system that is no longer around.

Even worse.....the statement below is absolutely useless and a prime example of taking a simple statement to help others understand to the EXTREME!

"Sorry Doug - a converter/charger does not make energy...it changes energy from one form to another. A generator makes energy. A battery makes energy. By definition. I'm an EE and have worked in the power industry for many, many years. If you want to think that a inverter/charger makes energy please go right ahead, but that's not correct."

I haven't been on this forum for quite awhile because of this type of stuff. Doug goes out of his way to help others, yet those who never post anything to help, are always there to criticze.

Sorry DSPD Don, but when someone makes a post that is not accurate in my thread (I'm the original poster with the question) I can and will correct it. If you want to start another thread about the topic go right ahead, but I do not appreciate your comment, nor is it helpful. And by the way, my statement above that you quote is indeed accurate.

Al

[DSDP_Don]

You know....sometimes some of you can destroy a post with stupid information. What Doug posted is accurate for about 99% of the RV's on the road. Then someone comes along and says his 1948 Shasta trailer conversion with a 63 Buick chassis doesn't work that way. DUH! Some will go out of their way to prove someone wrong when the rest of the group understands that most information is generic to the AVERAGE RV, not some old style charging system that is no longer around.

Even worse.....the statement below is absolutely useless and a prime example of taking a simple statement to help others understand to the EXTREME!

"Sorry Doug - a converter/charger does not make energy...it changes energy from one form to another. A generator makes energy. A battery makes energy. By definition. I'm an EE and have worked in the power industry for many, many years. If you want to think that a inverter/charger makes energy please go right ahead, but that's not correct."

I haven't been on this forum for quite awhile because of this type of stuff. Doug goes out of his way to help others, yet those who never post anything to help, are always there to criticze.

[olfarmer]

Back to the original posters problem. One other thing to check is where the negative battery cable connects to ground on the RV chassis. I had an older motor home that had an intermittent starting problem. After replacing the solenoid, cleaning battery cables at the battery, I found that the chassis ground where the cable connected was dirty and rusty. I cleaned that up and no more problems. It has been a long time ago and I am not sure but I may have even replaced the starter before I found the actual problem!
Good luck intermittent problems can be hard to diagnose!

Ed

P.S. When it wouldn't start, if I kept trying and "clicking" the key it would eventually start. It did not fail to start often, just occasionally.

[wolfe10]

This is very easy to verify (whether the generator directly charges the batteries or only by powering the converter, charger or inverter/charger).

Turn off your 120 VAC main breaker or separate breaker to your charging device if so eqipped. Run enough 12 VDC loads to at least deplete the surface charge (allow battery voltage to get below 12.7 VDC). Note voltage.

Start generator.

Check voltage at both battery banks.

If no change in voltage, the generator does not directly charge. If voltage rises......

[dougrainer]

Sorry folks. Give me your Brand and Model of Genset. NONE of the RV Onan Gensets all the way to 12.5k have NO battery charge module. AND the few Powertech Gensets, that DID have a module was ONLY to keep the genset RUNNING, not to charge any battery bank. Now, A LOT, of Class A motorhomes have a 120 Battery TENDER/Minder connected to the chassis battery bank and that will keep the Chassis charged, but it requires either 120 Shore Power or genset, BUT, as I stated, the Genset does NOT have the equipment to charge, It just powers the add on charging system. Doug

[FloridaRosebud]

Tom/Barb wrote:

mchero wrote:


Our last two diesel coaches both had generators with alternators on them. They would indeed charge what ever battery bank was supplying 12VDC to the generator(s)

Ours does too, our generator starts from the chassis battery pack. and it will charge that battery pack. once the chassis battery is up to a certain point the intellic box will close the relay and the house battery will charge also.

all this is while the inverter/charger is off.

Mine does that as well.

Al

[Tom_Barb]

mchero wrote:


Our last two diesel coaches both had generators with alternators on them. They would indeed charge what ever battery bank was supplying 12VDC to the generator(s)

Ours does too, our generator starts from the chassis battery pack. and it will charge that battery pack. once the chassis battery is up to a certain point the intellic box will close the relay and the house battery will charge also.

all this is while the inverter/charger is off.

[mchero]

dougrainer wrote:
NO RV Genset charges any battery. Gensets have NO charging system at all. What the genset does is supply 120 power to the onboard COACH Converter or Inverter/charger, whichever you have, and THAT appliance charges the coach batteries ONLY. Your Emergency BOOST, requires the COACH batteries to be charged. The BOOST button is activated by the Coach battery 12 volt signal. It then merges the coach and Chassis batteries by a solenoid to supply power to start the engine. Odds are, as another posted stated, you had a temp bad connection on the engine starter/solenoid system. Doug

Incorrect information!

I'm with Doug on this one.

Our last two diesel coaches both had generators with alternators on them. They would indeed charge what ever battery bank was supplying 12VDC to the generator(s).
Perhaps some of the smaller gas/propane generators won't charge.

[Sam_Spade]

dougrainer wrote:

Please READ and COMPREHEND my post. It is 100 percent accurate.

But it is 0% useful.

The "charging appliance" can't do anything without an AC power input from SOMETHING either.

No matter what make or model you have, the "battery solenoid" is a common point of failure on rigs over 5 years old. A new one is relatively inexpensive.....even if you pay somebody to do it.

I think the prudent thing to do is to have a competent RV shop look at it.

[tropical36]

wolfe10 wrote:
OK, perhaps time to take a "chill pill".

Good information posts have degraded into personal attacks.

That is NOT what the Forum is about.

Thanks.

While those affected are taking their chill pill....lol, just let me say, that ....Energy cannot be created or destroyed...
It can only be transferred or changed from one form to another.
This is the first law of Thermodynamics or the law for conservation of energy, if you will!
Story short, we'll all have to be content with the energy that's already on the planet.

[wa8yxm]

While it is true the generator does not . Itself. Generally charge anything (House or Chassis.. There are a few Motor homes that have a 3rd battery just for the generator and that is charged by the genny but those are rare)

It powers the device (Converter or Inverter/charger) that is responsible for charging the house.. and if you have a B.I.R.D. this device also charges the chassis.

So rather than spell out the whole chain we traditionally say "THe Generator charges" because Well RUNNING the generator powers the converter (or inverter/charger's charger module) which in turn charges everything.

[wolfe10]

OK, perhaps time to take a "chill pill".

Good information posts have degraded into personal attacks.

That is NOT what the Forum is about.

Thanks.

[FloridaRosebud]

dougrainer wrote:

Tom/Barb wrote:

dougrainer wrote:


Please READ and COMPREHEND my post. It is 100 percent accurate. Gensets as well as Shore Power CANNOT charge batteries. All they do is supply 120 POWER to the actual charging appliances on the RV. Disconnect or have a bad Converter or Inverter/Charger. Then try and charge your RV. Doug

If The Inverter/charger is the "charger" where does it get the energy to do that.
How can the Inverter/charger which makes no energy, so how can it be the charger?

The inverter charger is only directing and controlling the charge rate That is all it can do.

You know, I was being nice. Since you either do not like me or you are a jerk, Inverter/CHARGERS are a BATTERY CHARGER. It takes 120 volts to make them work. GENSETS, HAVE NO CHARGER. If you disconnect the Inverter/Charger or your Converter, within about 24 hours your Genset will stop running as it requires 12 volts to stay running. It will draw its needed current from the battery bank supplying it until that battery bank is depleted by the Genset. AN INVERTER/CHARGER MAKES ENERGY. Doug

Sorry Doug - a converter/charger does not make energy...it changes energy from one form to another. A generator makes energy. A battery makes energy. By definition. I'm an EE and have worked in the power industry for many, many years. If you want to think that a inverter/charger makes energy please go right ahead, but that's not correct.

And your argument with others does not help me with the issue I posted.

Al