Understanding towing weights?

[FootSoldier]

I appreciate everyone's patience. I'm reading a lot and trying to get a good understanding of what shouldn't be as confusing as I think it is subject. LOL!

When I started this process, I was looking at a 3/4 ton diesel 4x4 SB truck, thinking I have seen lots of people running up and down the highway pulling rigs much larger than what we're looking at.

Now, I am starting to think there's a lot of rigs overloaded out there on the roads.

Just working from manufacturer published numbers for both the truck and trailer, so I can get into the right ballpark.

The truck; 3/4 ton crew cab, SB, 4x4, diesel, max hitch 18.5k, GCWR 27.5k, but only 3553 max payload.

The trailer; 34' fifth wheel, GVWR 13k, curb weight 10.2k, dry hitch 1960.

Assuming they're telling the truth, I thought I'd be fine. But, with encouragement from here and scratching a little deeper I saw a different picture.

Truck payload 3563 max. Add 5th wheel hitch, 36 gal fuel, 2 people, and the trailer tongue weight and you have 29k on-board just like that. That only leaves 663lbs for anything else to be carried on the truck.

And what if like others here have said, the tongue weight listed is off by just 10%? Add a small generator, ice chest, small emergency tool bag, and now your at full tilt max rated payload of the truck. Forget about that over-sized 60 gal replacement fuel tank, I can't carry another 24 gal of fuel, +168lbs.

Does this look like I'm finally getting this right? Looks like everything is going to turn on the truck rated max payload number? None of the GVRW, GCWR, tow capacity is really going to come into play, because the first lowest limiting factor is going to be payload?

Patience for a newby please?

[cptqueeg]

FootSoldier wrote:
Ok, first, big thanks to JIMNLIN! He pointed me to the 2021 GM Online Order Guide where I could find all the detailed info I could not find in other brochures or sources. All right there together.

Thanks to everyone for your help and advice. I had to get to this spot understanding the how and why, now I feel like I'm there.

I won't go all into our trailer choice, but suffice it to say, it's way over anything I thought we'd ever do. 34'3", 12,995 GVWR.

The truck need list; fit into our garage, safely/legally tow our trailer, and not be a PITA to drive when not towing. My preference was 3/4 ton diesel because I knew (from owning my old 1500HD 6.0L for 20 yrs) would fit in the garage and be enjoyable to drive. The towing capability part? That I didn't know at all.

After your help and JIMNLIN's, now I can list my choices and understand them.

Our new truck will be a 3500HD 4x4 diesel SB SRW GMC. Compared to the 2500HD; curb weight +128, RR GAWR +650, max trailer weight +2800, payload +622, and cost MSRP +$1200.

The 3500 will easily check all the boxes on my list and give us a little extra wiggle room for the safety/confidence factor, for almost no difference in $$. A truck with DRW LB would require extensive remodel or a new garage.

All that, and we got it done in less that 4 pages! LOL! I really do appreciate everyone's willingness to help us.

Safe travels!

Steve

cptqueeg wrote:
Yes payload is the limiting factor. Forget the 3/4T. There is no reason to buy a 3/4T vs a 1T to tow a 34' FW.

In 6 pages from now we'll be discussing a 350/3500 and whether it should be a SRW or DRW. 😉

I thought it was done on the 4th post, just a few mins over an hour from your OP. 😉


I do understand and find it very comforting to understand all the deets behind the decision, though and appreciate the sharing of knowledge here.

[Thermoguy]

Good Choice - as someone that has a 2500 and wishes he would have purchased the 1 ton from the start - changing isn't as easy as it sounds... $$

[FootSoldier]

Ok, first, big thanks to JIMNLIN! He pointed me to the 2021 GM Online Order Guide where I could find all the detailed info I could not find in other brochures or sources. All right there together.

Thanks to everyone for your help and advice. I had to get to this spot understanding the how and why, now I feel like I'm there.

I won't go all into our trailer choice, but suffice it to say, it's way over anything I thought we'd ever do. 34'3", 12,995 GVWR.

The truck need list; fit into our garage, safely/legally tow our trailer, and not be a PITA to drive when not towing. My preference was 3/4 ton diesel because I knew (from owning my old 1500HD 6.0L for 20 yrs) would fit in the garage and be enjoyable to drive. The towing capability part? That I didn't know at all.

After your help and JIMNLIN's, now I can list my choices and understand them.

Our new truck will be a 3500HD 4x4 diesel SB SRW GMC. Compared to the 2500HD; curb weight +128, RR GAWR +650, max trailer weight +2800, payload +622, and cost MSRP +$1200.

The 3500 will easily check all the boxes on my list and give us a little extra wiggle room for the safety/confidence factor, for almost no difference in $$. A truck with DRW LB would require extensive remodel or a new garage.

All that, and we got it done in less that 4 pages! LOL! I really do appreciate everyone's willingness to help us.

Safe travels!

Steve

[StirCrazy]

ya, I would skip the f250 or 2500 and just get a single rear wheel 1 ton, same physical size as a 3/4 ton but generaly will have at least 1000lb more payload capacity.

Steve

[ericosmith]

Keep in mind that the 4x4 also drops the payload.

[MFL]

If the OP is referring to newish GM 2500 HD, with diesel, it does have a higher than most payload listing. The reason GM upped the GVWR to 11,300, and a RAWR of 6,600. These are very capable TVs!

Towing a FW, is more a matter of RAWR anyway, but with the higher GVWR, the payload will work out about the same as RA.

Jerry

[cummins2014]

FootSoldier wrote:

garyp4951 wrote:
I haven't seen any 3/4 ton diesel CC 4x4 with a payload of 3563, unless this a new offering from whatever brand.
If you want higher payload limits, and no what if's, more stable towing, just get a 1 ton drw.

I haven't tried to figure out how new, but it appears that it's fairly new. Maybe since 2019, but that's a guess. Page 1, of the 2021 GMC 2500HD Ordering Guide for the 4WD SB crew cab list 3563 payload for the L5P on 18-20" wheels.

I get the suggestions to build in growing room, but this truck won't be a full-time tow rig and has to fit into our garage. That, and the fact that we won't be full timing in the trailer, and I am willing to take the risk that we won't be going bigger on the trailer, all lead me to the 3/4 ton.

Hey, if something big were to change, it's not a problem that couldn't be fixed.

Yup, money will fix anything . So you think a SRW 1 ton short bed is somehow longer or bigger then the 3/4 ton , not even an inch . You’ve got it figured out. Not sure you had a question that needed answering . Just go get a 3/4 ton , and be done . You had your own question answered before you posted .

[FootSoldier]

garyp4951 wrote:
I haven't seen any 3/4 ton diesel CC 4x4 with a payload of 3563, unless this a new offering from whatever brand.
If you want higher payload limits, and no what if's, more stable towing, just get a 1 ton drw.

I haven't tried to figure out how new, but it appears that it's fairly new. Maybe since 2019, but that's a guess. Page 1, of the 2021 GMC 2500HD Ordering Guide for the 4WD SB crew cab list 3563 payload for the L5P on 18-20" wheels.

I get the suggestions to build in growing room, but this truck won't be a full-time tow rig and has to fit into our garage. That, and the fact that we won't be full timing in the trailer, and I am willing to take the risk that we won't be going bigger on the trailer, all lead me to the 3/4 ton.

Hey, if something big were to change, it's not a problem that couldn't be fixed.

[Michelle_S]

I think we're talking a Gas 2500, as it would have a higher payload than a Diesel.

[garyp4951]

I haven't seen any 3/4 ton diesel CC 4x4 with a payload of 3563, unless this a new offering from whatever brand.
If you want higher payload limits, and no what if's, more stable towing, just get a 1 ton drw.

[cummins2014]

FootSoldier wrote:
I appreciate everyone's patience. I'm reading a lot and trying to get a good understanding of what shouldn't be as confusing as I think it is subject. LOL!

When I started this process, I was looking at a 3/4 ton diesel 4x4 SB truck, thinking I have seen lots of people running up and down the highway pulling rigs much larger than what we're looking at.

Now, I am starting to think there's a lot of rigs overloaded out there on the roads.

Just working from manufacturer published numbers for both the truck and trailer, so I can get into the right ballpark.

The truck; 3/4 ton crew cab, SB, 4x4, diesel, max hitch 18.5k, GCWR 27.5k, but only 3553 max payload.

The trailer; 34' fifth wheel, GVWR 13k, curb weight 10.2k, dry hitch 1960.

Assuming they're telling the truth, I thought I'd be fine. But, with encouragement from here and scratching a little deeper I saw a different picture.

Truck payload 3563 max. Add 5th wheel hitch, 36 gal fuel, 2 people, and the trailer tongue weight and you have 29k on-board just like that. That only leaves 663lbs for anything else to be carried on the truck.

And what if like others here have said, the tongue weight listed is off by just 10%? Add a small generator, ice chest, small emergency tool bag, and now your at full tilt max rated payload of the truck. Forget about that over-sized 60 gal replacement fuel tank, I can't carry another 24 gal of fuel, +168lbs.

Does this look like I'm finally getting this right? Looks like everything is going to turn on the truck rated max payload number? None of the GVRW, GCWR, tow capacity is really going to come into play, because the first lowest limiting factor is going to be payload?

Patience for a newby please?

Its probably been brought up , but many make the mistake you are probably doing , 3/4 ton is good enough . Then fast forward, and you want a bigger fifth wheel. My point go at least a 1 ton SRW , and leave yourself room to grow . If not you are not out anything, and have a very capable truck .

[FootSoldier]

StirCrazy wrote:
have you scalled your truck yet? the 3553 payload is an aproximation and realy only a number for estimation, what is thw most accurate is to get it scalled with a full talk of gas to get your seperat axel weights. then you know how much weight you can add to the axel. so you think you might have 3553 of payload available but depening on your options on the truck and such you might only have 3000 or maybe 3800. only axtualy scaling th truck will tell you exactly. if you normaly have your wife and dog with you when you travel you could even have all of them with the full tank of gas and that gives you the weight you can add related to the trailer and hitch.

Steve

I am trying to get to this point in the process, but I don't have a truck yet. Right now, I'm trying to get educated to the point where I can walk onto the lot and know the general class of truck I need and buy the tool that will do the job and fit our other preferences as well.

Then I'll be able to stop approximating and start working with black/white hard numbers. Then we'll confirm the trailer choice.

And I will for sure, before it is ever loaded for it's first trip, fill the truck with fuel and head to our first CAT scale visit to see what our normal empty weight is?

Thanks to everyone who has tried to help teach me a little more. I'm trying to make our first and most expensive move be the "right" one for us, and it is confusing when it's your first time down this path. I really do appreciate the help and patience for answer questions that you've probably answered 100 times.

Thanks!

Steve

[StirCrazy]

have you scalled your truck yet? the 3553 payload is an aproximation and realy only a number for estimation, what is thw most accurate is to get it scalled with a full talk of gas to get your seperat axel weights. then you know how much weight you can add to the axel. so you think you might have 3553 of payload available but depening on your options on the truck and such you might only have 3000 or maybe 3800. only axtualy scaling th truck will tell you exactly. if you normaly have your wife and dog with you when you travel you could even have all of them with the full tank of gas and that gives you the weight you can add related to the trailer and hitch.

Steve

[garyp4951]

These charts help sometimes


Click For Full-Size Image.