Quality control problems - rant

[2001400ex]

Just want to rant a little. It's crazy how the manufactures have almost zero quality control now, much different than even 4 years ago. My first toy hauler I bought in 08. That one had no problems when I bought it, but about everything broke while using it. Fine, it was a cheap, bottom of they line toy hauler, I get it. My second one I bought new in 2013 and it had no problems from the get go and very minimal things broke along the way. But my new toy hauler....

I picked it up a couple weeks ago as a 2017 that's been on the lot since February. The list of stuff that's broken is long, most notably the line to fill the water tank was cut at some point and the repair job was awful. The carpet is coming apart, charging station doesn't work, one screen isn't on the tracks, 2 of the blinds won't stay up, one drawer is mounted crooked, the caulking is completely missing on one bump out, the other one it is about 1/8 inch too high, faucet opens in travel (when turn pump on it starts spraying), the beds don't go up at the same time as they are off, the TV is mounted where it rubs against the cabinet, the outside front storage door is crooked so it's very hard to close and latch, the place where the pump is I found 3 random screws and an extra wire and a ton of sawdust, and 2 screws were dropped in the ramp door so it scratched the inside of where it connects to the trailer.

So I knew quality had gone down in the last few years. My brother has the same brand of toy hauler and bought new last fall on one that he ordered, so he picked it up right after it was delivered, almost the same issues. Same with a few other friends in the last couple years. It seems like every one of these now days is just a mess. I do have an appointment in 2 weeks to get the stuff fixed so all will be good. But I figured I'd rant because I can.

[SidecarFlip]

Y-Guy wrote:
Please watch the discussion. One member has already mentioned the forum rules, and I will bring it up again. "Posts are not allowed in which a local, state, or federal consumer action board and/or legal counsel is/have been involved. This includes posts related to future, ongoing or past lawsuits. This is not open for debate. Keep the discussion about Quality Control and we're fine.

If you've not read the forum rules that you agreed to upon registering for this site, please take a moment. Forum Rules

Thanks!

That was me. Forum decorum is important to every discussion and keeping within the guidelines ensures a civil discussion.

Like 'owners manuals', most people never bother reading them, they just 'agree to' and register.

[Y-Guy]

Please watch the discussion. One member has already mentioned the forum rules, and I will bring it up again. "Posts are not allowed in which a local, state, or federal consumer action board and/or legal counsel is/have been involved. This includes posts related to future, ongoing or past lawsuits. This is not open for debate. Keep the discussion about Quality Control and we're fine.

If you've not read the forum rules that you agreed to upon registering for this site, please take a moment. Forum Rules

Thanks!

[2001400ex]

I don't know about lawsuits. But there should be lemon laws. At some point, some RVs become unfixable. You'd think the bills from dealers for warranty work would cause the manufacturers to do something about quality control. It's cheaper for them to fix everything before it leaves rather than paying a dealer their shop rate. Maybe the manufacturers are making so much right now that it doesn't matter, and with only a one year warranty, and a lot of consumers not aware of everything wrong or they fix it themselves, the warranty work might not be that big of an issue.

[hvac]

dannko wrote:

hvac wrote:
We just did a 2k mile shake down run with our 28 front bedroom ATC. Nothing, zip
has gone wrong. All aluminum, top to bottom. I say support companies who are standing up to the garbage the rv industry is producing.

Its the only way things will change.

So I have narrowed it down to exactly what you have, so do you think it is that much better than the othe
I even eliminated Livin LIte, since I read they are joining the **** club.

Tell me, what do you not like or wish you had (like insulated floor, thinking of walking on aluminum and making noies).

I pretty much want the all out loaded model which nobody stocks or even close.

How about ac, most dealers only have one on the unit, but in Texas heat, or southern travel with 100 degree days I have my doubts on the one 15K unit to cool the unit.

I also don't like that they don't offer the rear porch and railing option ,

sorry about all the questions, but I am hunting one now though it's 10K above my budget

thanks

We are using it as a travel trailer. No toys. We ordered full factory carpet front to back. So floor is covered. We have the happy Jack, but we raise that during the day and have a 7ft FOM bag for relaxing and one fold down bench. We use ours in the fall winter and spring on a nationwide basis, the single 13.5 ducted a.c. is sufficiently powerful and the 5.5 onan runs it all and much more.

Nothing is perfect, maybe order as many cabinets as possible. The size of the bathroom and Front bedroom is impressive indeed. Its long, 33 ft due to genny in the tongue. We call it stretch.

[Ralph_Cramden]

SidecarFlip wrote:

ha, well you read more than I, but I just suggested, what you show is an actual suit. I think my suggestions are being echoed across the buying public. It's sad that we are building China quality in the USA.

I would agree with that premise. We don't have to build low quality however. Low quality, high volume is solely profit driven.

I suspect we'll see a slight drop in sales due to the fuel price bump from Harvey. We'll see the data come October.

Stack em deep, sell em cheap LOL.

[SidecarFlip]

ha, well you read more than I, but I just suggested, what you show is an actual suit. I think my suggestions are being echoed across the buying public. It's sad that we are building China quality in the USA.

I would agree with that premise. We don't have to build low quality however. Low quality, high volume is solely profit driven.

[dannko]

SidecarFlip wrote:

dannko wrote:

2001400ex wrote:
Just want to rant a little. It's crazy how the manufactures have almost zero quality control now, much different than even 4 years ago. My first toy hauler I bought in 08. That one had no problems when I bought it, but about everything broke while using it. Fine, it was a cheap, bottom of they line toy hauler, I get it. My second one I bought new in 2013 and it had no problems from the get go and very minimal things broke along the way. But my new toy hauler....

I picked it up a couple weeks ago as a 2017 that's been on the lot since February. The list of stuff that's broken is long, most notably the line to fill the water tank was cut at some point and the repair job was awful. The carpet is coming apart, charging station doesn't work, one screen isn't on the tracks, 2 of the blinds won't stay up, one drawer is mounted crooked, the caulking is completely missing on one bump out, the other one it is about 1/8 inch too high, faucet opens in travel (when turn pump on it starts spraying), the beds don't go up at the same time as they are off, the TV is mounted where it rubs against the cabinet, the outside front storage door is crooked so it's very hard to close and latch, the place where the pump is I found 3 random screws and an extra wire and a ton of sawdust, and 2 screws were dropped in the ramp door so it scratched the inside of where it connects to the trailer.

So I knew quality had gone down in the last few years. My brother has the same brand of toy hauler and bought new last fall on one that he ordered, so he picked it up right after it was delivered, almost the same issues. Same with a few other friends in the last couple years. It seems like every one of these now days is just a mess. I do have an appointment in 2 weeks to get the stuff fixed so all will be good. But I figured I'd rant because I can.

Though I am against lawsuits, it's clear that class action suits need to be brought up against most rv manufacturers. (others have agreed on forums)

Then nationwide lemon laws need to be in place with buy back requirements.

After some buy backs, and lawsuit payouts, some will quit building (good they probably need to) and then maybe the rest will start putting some quality back into the units.

This is the only way the problem will be fixed in the current environment.

Need to be careful about posting that stuff, the user agreement that you agreed to when you first logged on, explicitly states.....

"Posts are not allowed in which a local, state, or federal consumer action board and/or legal counsel is/have been involved. This includes posts related to future, ongoing or past lawsuits"

While I agree that owners need to address the poor QC, this forum isn't the place to discuss it (and neither is any other RV forum I know of, all have the same basic users agreement.

I'm not a moderator hsre but I do read the 'rules of the road' and always try to abide by them.

Just for your FYI.

As a late model RV owner, I feel your pain and it's painfully obvious to me that manufacturers in general have on blinder when it comes to even the basic QC issues but demand has overridden supply so it get them done as fast as possible and go to the next unit and so on. W

When you operate with that production philosophy, product quality suffers because quality takes a back seat to production numbers and so long as the bottom line looks good, all that matters, not the end user.

I subscribe to RV Industry News and every day I read bout the profits manufacturers are making. Seldom (if ever) about the overall quality. I think the only time RV Industry News mentioned anything about quality was a comment about Forrest River's proposed 'Shine Bay', where units were supposedly 'looked over' as the last step in production, prior to shipping, for defects and supposedly those defects (lack of QC) would be addressed in the 'shine bay'. If, in fact FR initiated that, I have no idea as it was only mentioned one time, months ago, and never again.

ha, well you read more than I, but I just suggested, what you show is an actual suit. I think my suggestions are being echoed across the buying public. It's sad that we are building China quality in the USA.

[SidecarFlip]

dannko wrote:

2001400ex wrote:
Just want to rant a little. It's crazy how the manufactures have almost zero quality control now, much different than even 4 years ago. My first toy hauler I bought in 08. That one had no problems when I bought it, but about everything broke while using it. Fine, it was a cheap, bottom of they line toy hauler, I get it. My second one I bought new in 2013 and it had no problems from the get go and very minimal things broke along the way. But my new toy hauler....

I picked it up a couple weeks ago as a 2017 that's been on the lot since February. The list of stuff that's broken is long, most notably the line to fill the water tank was cut at some point and the repair job was awful. The carpet is coming apart, charging station doesn't work, one screen isn't on the tracks, 2 of the blinds won't stay up, one drawer is mounted crooked, the caulking is completely missing on one bump out, the other one it is about 1/8 inch too high, faucet opens in travel (when turn pump on it starts spraying), the beds don't go up at the same time as they are off, the TV is mounted where it rubs against the cabinet, the outside front storage door is crooked so it's very hard to close and latch, the place where the pump is I found 3 random screws and an extra wire and a ton of sawdust, and 2 screws were dropped in the ramp door so it scratched the inside of where it connects to the trailer.

So I knew quality had gone down in the last few years. My brother has the same brand of toy hauler and bought new last fall on one that he ordered, so he picked it up right after it was delivered, almost the same issues. Same with a few other friends in the last couple years. It seems like every one of these now days is just a mess. I do have an appointment in 2 weeks to get the stuff fixed so all will be good. But I figured I'd rant because I can.

Though I am against lawsuits, it's clear that class action suits need to be brought up against most rv manufacturers. (others have agreed on forums)

Then nationwide lemon laws need to be in place with buy back requirements.

After some buy backs, and lawsuit payouts, some will quit building (good they probably need to) and then maybe the rest will start putting some quality back into the units.

This is the only way the problem will be fixed in the current environment.

Need to be careful about posting that stuff, the user agreement that you agreed to when you first logged on, explicitly states.....

"Posts are not allowed in which a local, state, or federal consumer action board and/or legal counsel is/have been involved. This includes posts related to future, ongoing or past lawsuits"

While I agree that owners need to address the poor QC, this forum isn't the place to discuss it (and neither is any other RV forum I know of, all have the same basic users agreement.

I'm not a moderator hsre but I do read the 'rules of the road' and always try to abide by them.

Just for your FYI.

As a late model RV owner, I feel your pain and it's painfully obvious to me that manufacturers in general have on blinder when it comes to even the basic QC issues but demand has overridden supply so it get them done as fast as possible and go to the next unit and so on. W

When you operate with that production philosophy, product quality suffers because quality takes a back seat to production numbers and so long as the bottom line looks good, all that matters, not the end user.

I subscribe to RV Industry News and every day I read bout the profits manufacturers are making. Seldom (if ever) about the overall quality. I think the only time RV Industry News mentioned anything about quality was a comment about Forrest River's proposed 'Shine Bay', where units were supposedly 'looked over' as the last step in production, prior to shipping, for defects and supposedly those defects (lack of QC) would be addressed in the 'shine bay'. If, in fact FR initiated that, I have no idea as it was only mentioned one time, months ago, and never again.

[dannko]

2001400ex wrote:
Just want to rant a little. It's crazy how the manufactures have almost zero quality control now, much different than even 4 years ago. My first toy hauler I bought in 08. That one had no problems when I bought it, but about everything broke while using it. Fine, it was a cheap, bottom of they line toy hauler, I get it. My second one I bought new in 2013 and it had no problems from the get go and very minimal things broke along the way. But my new toy hauler....

I picked it up a couple weeks ago as a 2017 that's been on the lot since February. The list of stuff that's broken is long, most notably the line to fill the water tank was cut at some point and the repair job was awful. The carpet is coming apart, charging station doesn't work, one screen isn't on the tracks, 2 of the blinds won't stay up, one drawer is mounted crooked, the caulking is completely missing on one bump out, the other one it is about 1/8 inch too high, faucet opens in travel (when turn pump on it starts spraying), the beds don't go up at the same time as they are off, the TV is mounted where it rubs against the cabinet, the outside front storage door is crooked so it's very hard to close and latch, the place where the pump is I found 3 random screws and an extra wire and a ton of sawdust, and 2 screws were dropped in the ramp door so it scratched the inside of where it connects to the trailer.

So I knew quality had gone down in the last few years. My brother has the same brand of toy hauler and bought new last fall on one that he ordered, so he picked it up right after it was delivered, almost the same issues. Same with a few other friends in the last couple years. It seems like every one of these now days is just a mess. I do have an appointment in 2 weeks to get the stuff fixed so all will be good. But I figured I'd rant because I can.

Though I am against lawsuits, it's clear that class action suits need to be brought up against most rv manufacturers. (others have agreed on forums)

Then nationwide lemon laws need to be in place with buy back requirements.

After some buy backs, and lawsuit payouts, some will quit building (good they probably need to) and then maybe the rest will start putting some quality back into the units.

This is the only way the problem will be fixed in the current environment.

[dannko]

dedmiston wrote:

robobob68 wrote:
What a bummer to hear. What are the areas/types of issues you've had that have kept you in warranty land?

dedmiston wrote:
We've owned our "new" fiver for 18 months now and still don't have all the warranty repairs complete. The factories are sending out flawed units, the dealers aren't doing complete PDIs, and then the dealers are taking too long to perform warranty service.

I'll be so glad when our few remaining punch-list items are done. I bet our dealer will be even more glad to be done with us.

All sorts of things, but nothing that should take 18 months. (I blame the dealer for that.)

* Fold-out sofa broke
* Furnace ducting not connected and/or came loose
* No fresh-water drain
* Bad fresh-water vent (tanks would siphon empty instead of venting air)
* Indoor & Outdoor speakers wired wrong, so the indoor only played Left channel and outdoor only played Right.
* Leak around the TV antenna crank
* Re-seal the rain gutter
* Lots of trim items (missing/broken knobs from cabinets and windows)

Those are the items that I can remember.

The new sofa is supposedly on its way to the dealer. They also need to redo their work on the water drain, because they plumbed it with a 1/4" elbow that reduces the drain rate to a drool and it takes forever to drain the tanks.

I can't wait to have our punch list complete.

[dannko]

dedmiston wrote:

robobob68 wrote:
What a bummer to hear. What are the areas/types of issues you've had that have kept you in warranty land?

dedmiston wrote:
We've owned our "new" fiver for 18 months now and still don't have all the warranty repairs complete. The factories are sending out flawed units, the dealers aren't doing complete PDIs, and then the dealers are taking too long to perform warranty service.

I'll be so glad when our few remaining punch-list items are done. I bet our dealer will be even more glad to be done with us.

All sorts of things, but nothing that should take 18 months. (I blame the dealer for that.)

* Fold-out sofa broke
* Furnace ducting not connected and/or came loose
* No fresh-water drain
* Bad fresh-water vent (tanks would siphon empty instead of venting air)
* Indoor & Outdoor speakers wired wrong, so the indoor only played Left channel and outdoor only played Right.
* Leak around the TV antenna crank
* Re-seal the rain gutter
* Lots of trim items (missing/broken knobs from cabinets and windows)

Those are the items that I can remember.

The new sofa is supposedly on its way to the dealer. They also need to redo their work on the water drain, because they plumbed it with a 1/4" elbow that reduces the drain rate to a drool and it takes forever to drain the tanks.

I can't wait to have our punch list complete.

[dannko]

hvac wrote:
We just did a 2k mile shake down run with our 28 front bedroom ATC. Nothing, zip
has gone wrong. All aluminum, top to bottom. I say support companies who are standing up to the garbage the rv industry is producing.

Its the only way things will change.

So I have narrowed it down to exactly what you have, so do you think it is that much better than the others?

I even eliminated Livin LIte, since I read they are joining the **** club.

Tell me, what do you not like or wish you had (like insulated floor, thinking of walking on aluminum and making noies).

I pretty much want the all out loaded model which nobody stocks or even close.

How about ac, most dealers only have one on the unit, but in Texas heat, or southern travel with 100 degree days I have my doubts on the one 15K unit to cool the unit.

I also don't like that they don't offer the rear porch and railing option ,

sorry about all the questions, but I am hunting one now though it's 10K above my budget

thanks

[Ralph_Cramden]

SidecarFlip wrote:
If you really want to read about issues with Forrest River Products, I suggest you drop into the Forrest River Forum as a lurker and read some of the tales of woe. From breaking frames on pull behinds to cabinets falling off to windows falling out or installed upside down..it's all there plus the junk tires blowing up. All good reading....lol

Whats better reading there is when someone posts a complaint, along come some of the 800 or so Forest River Owners Group rally attending Kool Aid drinkers with their instant bashing and belittlement of the poster with the issues. How dare anyone talk bad about a Forest River product. Most FR Kool Aid drinkers attend the annual manufacturer sponsored rally in Goshen to get work done on their units. Either warranty work that they can not get resolved through the proper channels which is a Forest River MO, or to get "Free stuff" done.

When the Industry takes its next downturn that manufacturer sponsored rally, or at least the free work portion of it, will be first on the chopping block. Then we'll see what the Kool Aid drinkers think of their outstanding Forest River.

Forest River sucks.....and I own one. My name is Ralph, and I'm a FR bashaholic. 😄

.....And yet another fresh water tank falling out thread going on right now.

[MartyMoose]

I'm not on my fourth trailer/5th wheel. Thankfully I'm a DYI person or I would have spent a lot of time and money...... I love RV camping but would not do it if I had to rely on someone else to do repairs.

All this makes me think there is a huge market for a traveling RV repair service when I retire.