More garbage that'll get us ALL banned from National Forests

[ParkCountry]

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2021/11/man-found-guilty-after-leaving-trash-broken-down-vehicles-at-c...

A picture is worth a thousand words. With ever more people doing the "Free Camping" thing, come more idiots who will ruin it for EVERYONE.




EDIT: Fixed the link for you.

[Heisenberg]

After reading this thread it has become obvious that the current market pushes this side of humanity to basic survival. Imagine how many of these settled the West. There were few boundaries for those folks.
Humanity is a big tent, which translates to, some of those who make really bad decisions. They will always be with us.
That is the basis for dealing with this problem. JMHO

[time2roll]

cptqueeg wrote:
It's pathetic how little actual law enforcement gets done. The primary issue is the limited number of agents in the field to cover a vast landscape.

The officers depend on staff and public info so the more leads they get the more effective they can be.

Yes we need more legit campers in these forests and the correct number to call and report this activity.

[cptqueeg]

Generally squatters aren't pigs because they are trying to exceed the stay limits w/out being noticed by the public or USFS. There are a 1000 low key squatters for every mess like the one pictured in the link.

Squatters are of 2 kinds. Locals that move their rig into position for dispersed camping early in the season and take it out as the snow flies. They basically commute to their RV for weekends throughout the season. This is a generational thing where these squatters start to teach the next generation that rules are for other people and unless you're caught it's all good. The 2nd group is seasonal workers. The expense and severe lack of housing for seasonal workers in mtn towns has led to more and more squatting.

There is no easy answer. As we become more and more overcrowded every day the search for solitude and peace is ever more difficult. It's forcing me and others to think of where and when can I go that I won't be bothered, instead of what great American landscape to see.

[ParkCountry]

NRALIFR wrote:
“ Some have said, well, it's not US, so we shouldn't be held responsible. We might not be the source of the problem but we will ALL pay the price for others' disregard for the rules. The attitude that the USFS could never put a ban on dispersed camping is dead WRONG. They HAVE and WILL continue to close areas where cleanup, particularly of abandoned vehicles, hazardous materials, and homeless encampments have forced a redirection of scarce funding that could have been put to better use. ”


That depends on how pervasive the problem is, and how uncooperative the squatters are. I’ve seen a few of those trashed areas, and they aren’t anyplace I desire to go as long as they’re being trashed. If the only way to keep those areas from being trashed is by closing them, then I favor closing them. If issuing citations and fining the ones doing this doesn’t stop the behavior, what else can you do but close the area? There’s a legal term for areas that for whatever reason are magnets for bad people and bad behavior. They’re called an “attractive nuisance”, and once a particular area gets known as a place where anything goes, then it’s no surprise that everything goes on. Once that happens, the only way to stop it sometimes is to close it down.

Maybe I read more into your wording of the topic subject, but it seemed to me that there was some fear that ALL forests would be closed to the public because of a few filthy pigs squatting in a few areas. That’s what I meant when I said this will not result in the forests being closed to all.

The sad fact is, the people doing the trashing of these areas are not on this forum, or any other RV forum. I’m as against this type of behavior as you are, but unfortunately you’re preaching to the choir here.

:):)

Kevin, I meant all of US, NOT all of the National Forests. We're both on the same page.

[NRALIFR]

“ Some have said, well, it's not US, so we shouldn't be held responsible. We might not be the source of the problem but we will ALL pay the price for others' disregard for the rules. The attitude that the USFS could never put a ban on dispersed camping is dead WRONG. They HAVE and WILL continue to close areas where cleanup, particularly of abandoned vehicles, hazardous materials, and homeless encampments have forced a redirection of scarce funding that could have been put to better use. ”


That depends on how pervasive the problem is, and how uncooperative the squatters are. I’ve seen a few of those trashed areas, and they aren’t anyplace I desire to go as long as they’re being trashed. If the only way to keep those areas from being trashed is by closing them, then I favor closing them. If issuing citations and fining the ones doing this doesn’t stop the behavior, what else can you do but close the area? There’s a legal term for areas that for whatever reason are magnets for bad people and bad behavior. They’re called an “attractive nuisance”, and once a particular area gets known as a place where anything goes, then it’s no surprise that everything goes on. Once that happens, the only way to stop it sometimes is to close it down.

Maybe I read more into your wording of the topic subject, but it seemed to me that there was some fear that ALL forests would be closed to the public because of a few filthy pigs squatting in a few areas. That’s what I meant when I said this will not result in the forests being closed to all.

The sad fact is, the people doing the trashing of these areas are not on this forum, or any other RV forum. I’m as against this type of behavior as you are, but unfortunately you’re preaching to the choir here.

:):)

[ParkCountry]

Thank you to all who have commented. Some have said that the Forest Service needs to better enforce squatting and the 14-day limit, some laying some of the responsibility upon the USFS. When is the last time you actually saw a USFS Ranger on patrol? These guys are stretched much too thin and cannot possibly undertake the gargantuan task of patrolling all roads on a regular basis. That is why they need YOU to report what you observe.

The sad fact of the matter is that the USFS has neither the BUDGET nor the manpower to enforce these rules in an effective manner to deter such activity. My wife and I spend a considerable amount of time exploring the backroads of the Bridger-Teton National Forest and surrounding areas. We have observed appalling examples of littering, vandalism, dumping of vehicles, tires, general household trash, yard debris, ad nauseam. Some have said, well, it's not US, so we shouldn't be held responsible. We might not be the source of the problem but we will ALL pay the price for others' disregard for the rules. The attitude that the USFS could never put a ban on dispersed camping is dead WRONG. They HAVE and WILL continue to close areas where cleanup, particularly of abandoned vehicles, hazardous materials, and homeless encampments have forced a redirection of scarce funding that could have been put to better use. And once this happens, the odds of getting these areas reopened ranges from slim to none.

[cptqueeg]

mockturtle wrote:

cptqueeg wrote:
It's pathetic how little actual law enforcement gets done. The primary issue is the limited number of agents in the field to cover a vast landscape.

The officers depend on staff and public info so the more leads they get the more effective they can be.

More likely, the budget is spent on office staff rather than field agents. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want rangers constantly harassing legal campers but when there is a two-week limit, that limit should be strictly enforced. This kind of junkyard didn't happen overnight. This is why we can't have nice things. 😞

Law Enforcement has its own yearly budget, the vast majority of which is spent fielding a minimal amount of LEO's, not the back office staff.

There is an ever increasing amount of pressure on dispersed camping areas especially near recreation or work; the evolving wildland-urban interface. Camp hosts can regulate length of stay fairly easily in a camp, but it's very difficult to keep track of all the dispersed camping areas.

The restrictions on dispersed camping will tighten, the FS simply doesn't have the manpower to rely on strict enforcement to achieve compliance.

[dedmiston]

We camp a lot on BLM land and we rarely see any LEOs unless something goes wrong and people call them.

[mockturtle]

cptqueeg wrote:
It's pathetic how little actual law enforcement gets done. The primary issue is the limited number of agents in the field to cover a vast landscape.

The officers depend on staff and public info so the more leads they get the more effective they can be.

More likely, the budget is spent on office staff rather than field agents. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want rangers constantly harassing legal campers but when there is a two-week limit, that limit should be strictly enforced. This kind of junkyard didn't happen overnight. This is why we can't have nice things. 😞

[wanderingaimles]

Not promoting what happened, but the Government putting all the barriers up to landlords evicting people for failing to pay rent would make a great news story if the Government did the same thing to these poor people.
No Govt petty beauracrat wants to be the one who gets caught in front of the camera forcing those folks to move.

[cptqueeg]

pitch wrote:
That is not a camp site. That is a squatter site. Entirely on the forest service plate hers. No way was this accumulated in 14 days.
Forest Service needs to monitor much more closely.

The FS doesn't have money to increase the amount of LEO's. BTW it takes an extensive amount of time to build a case for squatting; it's a LOT easier said than done.

[pitch]

That is not a camp site. That is a squatter site. Entirely on the forest service plate hers. No way was this accumulated in 14 days.
Forest Service needs to monitor much more closely.

[phillyg]

One bad guy should not ruin it for everyone. And, the people in charge should have been on top of it from the get go.

[Veebyes]

The cost of a regular patrol of places like this has to be much less than the cleanup & the cost of running this guy into court.