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BC Parks Reservation System

GaryKH
Explorer
Explorer
Obviously this isn't working. What do other provinces/States do that does work?

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/bc-campers-face-a-sold-out-summer-as-private-companies-block-them-out-of-provincial-campsites
20 REPLIES 20

garyhaupt
Explorer
Explorer
Further to the conversation....


B.C.’s environment minister is considering ways to address growing exasperation among campers who cannot get a reservation for their favourite park on desired days.

It is “extremely frustrating” to campers when they learn that a popular spot is booked, Mary Polak said Thursday.

“There are simply too many people chasing too few campsites.”

Demand for campsites is surging.

In 2015, 158,000 reservations were made, up by 19 per cent from 2014.

The 2015 total was up 80 per cent from the 87,684 reservations made in 2010.

Reducing allowed maximum stays in popular parks to seven days from 14 is one possibility being considered, Polak said.

“One of the things that we are looking at is: Could we create something on the reservation website that would alert people to a campsite that is in the area — maybe it’s not a favourite one that they wanted, but it is nearby and it has spaces,” Polak said.

Out-of-town visitors might not be aware of other sites in an area, she said.

“Maybe a pop-up comes up and says, ‘We see you tried to book this one. Are you aware there’s this other one you could try?’ ”

The aim is to find ways to make booking experience better for people, Polak said. “But ultimately we are going to have to expand the number of sites that we have.”

About 200 campsites have been added in the past five to six years, she said.

The ministry is examining where new campgrounds could be developed or campsites added, she said.

This is a challenge because there might not be land available, or park advocates might not want to see natural areas converted into camping spots, and it can be expensive to purchase land, she said.

Polak released a statement Thursday addressing what some some regard as unfair reservation practices in B.C. parks, saying the goal is to close loopholes.

This follows two dozen allegations of people reselling campsite bookings. Concerns have also been raised about travel companies booking reservations in bulk for international visitors.

Polak said that no one gets preferential treatment and the system does not permit bulk campsite reservations. Even so, one mainland tourism company is being investigated.

In 2015, fewer than 800 reservations, or less than one per cent of total bookings, were from commercial operators, she said.

B.C. Green Party Leader Andrew Weaver said reselling of sites is happening, citing an online advertisement offering a site for $150, later reduced to $125, at Porteau Cove, 20 kilometres south of Squamish, which would normally cost $40 to book.

He said B.C. residents should have the first shot at reserving campsites, and an allotment of sites should be set aside for residents.

Polak said she does not see a need to allocate a portion of sites to B.C. residents because they are already responsible for a majority of reservations.

Last year, 75 per cent of reservations were from within B.C., followed by 13 per cent from Alberta, three per cent from other provinces or territories, four per cent from the U.S. and six per cent from overseas

B.C. has 570 campgrounds with 38,669 campsites, operated by the province, Parks Canada, municipalities and the private sector, says a report done for the Canadian Camping and RV Council and released last year.

The private sector in B.C. focuses mainly on serving the recreational vehicle market but many have sites available as well for tenting, said Joss Penny, executive director of the B.C. Lodging and Campgrounds Association.

cjwilson@timescolonist.com

© Copyright Times Colonist -

____________________________________________________________________________

Perhaps then there is credence to the suggestion of scalping. Nothing like a looming election to get things happening.


Gary Haupt
I have a Blog..about stuff, some of which is RV'ing.

http://mrgwh.blogspot.ca/

GaryKH
Explorer
Explorer
"The response I did get, was as a result of my having contacted BC Parks. If you have the desire, contact them too and pass along your solution suggestions. If one could prove the allegations of actual abuse..then contacting the MLA's is the next step. "

Done. Thanks for your inquiries!

garyhaupt
Explorer
Explorer
GaryH...all great suggestions. As for the gov't taking over from a private company? Yeah..right..like the liquor distribution and liquor stores. It's all about privatization, isn't it.

The buck carries the weight and there are few if any organizations that will turn down a 100% paid occupancy on the off-chance of their facility filling up. That's just a fact of life. And in BC? We have the reservation company and the private contractors that manage the parks, who, from my own hands on experience, are able to massage the contractual obligations to add even more to their bottom line.

The response I did get, was as a result of my having contacted BC Parks. If you have the desire, contact them too and pass along your solution suggestions. If one could prove the allegations of actual abuse..then contacting the MLA's is the next step.


Gary Haupt
I have a Blog..about stuff, some of which is RV'ing.

http://mrgwh.blogspot.ca/

GaryKH
Explorer
Explorer
Some one started another thread in the General RV'ing forum. I C&P'd my response here...(with spelling corrections)
"i posted about this in the Canada/USA forum. The problem is first come first serve wasn't working because people would set up their gear in a site on a Monday in order to get that site for the weekend. It ended up with some campgrounds not having any sites available even though their were. And now there is this scam. The company is using their clients name & cc info to reserve so it doesn't appear that they are reselling. I do think that charging the full rate (reservation fee plus campsite fee) would stop most of this. But then it wouldn't be fair for people who ha e mechanical issues while on the road."

Gary, what you got back from BC Parks was their standard response. They have been saying that for a long time. The problem is, unless they are willing to make all the data available to the public (Gov't is public isn't it?) then how can anyone verify this? Also the private Company would have to do the same thing...ain't going to happen! Plus, who is going to spend a lot of time analyzing it all?

Here's some possible solutions, It would need studying though!
1/ When someone reserves, bill them for the reservation fee + the campsite fee for the whole time (maybe even increase the reservation fee) Make sure that it is spelled out that there are no refunds unless you can show proof of a medical emergency, mechanical breakdown, or other similar 'circumstance beyond our control' issue, with back up proof.
2/ Re the above, If the reservaion includes a holiday weekend, then there should be no refunds at all.
3/ Stop this practice of having reservable sites in the best spots in the campground. Last year we were in Wells Gray & the campground was empty. But all the sites along the river were reservable, but available for just 1 or 2 nights. We saw & talked with some of the people who said they wanted to stay longer, but felt they couldn't so they left. Or they felt they had to stay in the sites away from the view & weren't pleased.
4/ Go back to having only 40% of the sites reservable as it was when they introduced this system. Today, some are 100%!
5/ Let BC Parks manage the reservation system. The private company is currently making a profit, so if the Gov't takes it over, then they could use that money to hire more staff to stop abusers.

Anyway, there are probably more good ideas out there and hopefully others will offer their suggestions.

canadafan
Explorer
Explorer
Well done Gary!!!

garyhaupt
Explorer
Explorer
I decided to drop off a note to BC Parks..and received this...


Tour Operators Booking Campsites in BC Parks

There has been some recent media regarding the ability for commercial operators, specifically Recreational Vehicle (RV) rental companies, booking BC Parks camping sites on the Discover Camping Reservation system. BC Parks has always been aware that RV companies have booked reservations for their clients. Commercial operators do not receive preferential treatment to reserve campsites and are not allowed to book blocks of sites. All park users (including commercial operators) have to follow our policies and procedures when booking reservations.

In 2015, the total number of reservations made by commercial operators is believed to be less than half of one percent of the total reservations made.

BC Parks takes allegations of unfair camping reservation practices by tour companies very seriously, at this time, we do not believe this is a common practice but take this possibility very seriously. BC Parks has launched an investigation to gather the facts about this matter.
-----------------------------------------------------------


I then asked about follow up. So..if anyone has any actual/factual information about abuses of the reservation system, they could send them to me via the pm system and I in turn will forward them on to the BC Parks person that responded.


Gary Haupt
I have a Blog..about stuff, some of which is RV'ing.

http://mrgwh.blogspot.ca/

GaryKH
Explorer
Explorer
Carl n Susan wrote:
The state of Oregon used to have a similar problem. They allow you to reserve for 14 days. The new system requires you to pay for the entire reservation time up front. Then if the reservation is for 5 or more days, a cancellation of dates (other than total cancellation of the reservation) gets *NO* refund. That stopped most of the people booking major weekends 14 days in advance and then cancelling the 11 or so days they never intended to use.


Does that include the camping fee also? If so, then that sounds like a solution. When it hits the pocket book, people generally smarten up! But at the same time, it could catch some innocents with a costly cancellation due to breakdowns or whatever. I would prefer first come, first serve, if it is used the way it is meant to be. When we are travelling, we don't always know where we will be on a certain date (preferable).

Carl_n_Susan
Nomad II
Nomad II
The state of Oregon used to have a similar problem. They allow you to reserve for 14 days. The new system requires you to pay for the entire reservation time up front. Then if the reservation is for 5 or more days, a cancellation of dates (other than total cancellation of the reservation) gets *NO* refund. That stopped most of the people booking major weekends 14 days in advance and then cancelling the 11 or so days they never intended to use.
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garyhaupt
Explorer
Explorer
gmctoyman wrote:
Just skip thru BC, RESERVATIONS SUCK !


If I knew where to find you, I'd make sure the way was cleared, so you could just 'skip on thru'.

Gary Haupt
I have a Blog..about stuff, some of which is RV'ing.

http://mrgwh.blogspot.ca/

gmctoyman
Explorer
Explorer
Just skip thru BC, RESERVATIONS SUCK !
Dave W. AKA "Toyman"
KE5GOH - On 146.52
RV's ? What RV's ???
Apache Pop-up
Classic GMC Motorhome
07 Leisure Travel Sprinter
Do Boats Count ?

canadafan
Explorer
Explorer
Just seen on the BC RV forum

"Hello BC Parks Facebook Fans,
We are aware of the recent news stories regarding the reselling of BC Parks’ reservations. We take this matter very seriously and investigate every incident that is brought to our attention. Please note that over the last 5 years we have received less than 10 complaints regarding the reselling of camping reservations.
As soon as this practice was brought to BC Parks’ attention, we implemented and continue to follow this policy, established in 2013:
Reservations are not transferable. Any reservation owners or holders found to be transferring or selling their reservations to another party, risk the chance that their reservation may be cancelled without a refund. If a customer can no longer use their reservation, they are encouraged to cancel their reservation so that any unused User Fees that are not forfeited as a penalty can be automatically refunded to the credit card that was used to make the original reservation."
We encourage you to contact us immediately if you observe a person trying to sell their reservation booking ParkInfo@Victoria1.gov.bc.ca.

garyhaupt
Explorer
Explorer
GaryKH wrote:

Yes, We've experienced that also. We actually got to a BCFS campground (on Vancouver Island) when they were in the process of distributing all of their pup tents to each individual site. When i asked him wtf he was doing, he got his rifle out of his truck & said they had all the sites & to take off! We then went down the hill to another forestry site (with an attendant) & told the attendant about this. He said he would pass on the info to authorities. We didn't stick around to see what, if anything, happened.



Oh man oh man....that is some bad stuff, right there. I do hope they got up there and dealt with it.


Gary Haupt
I have a Blog..about stuff, some of which is RV'ing.

http://mrgwh.blogspot.ca/

GaryKH
Explorer
Explorer
jimbob3ca wrote:
There is also a problem with British Columbia's forest service recreation sites. In the East Kootenay's, I often go out to use one of the sites that is near where I want to fish. I arrive on a Monday and find trailers or tents set up and nobody there, and nobody is there all week. I have even come a second time up to two or three weeks later, and the same trailer/trailers are still there. Some people treat these sites as their own private recreational property. Problem is partly due to cutbacks so that forest service staff cannot police this because of a lack of staff.


Yes, We've experienced that also. We actually got to a BCFS campground (on Vancouver Island) when they were in the process of distributing all of their pup tents to each individual site. When i asked him wtf he was doing, he got his rifle out of his truck & said they had all the sites & to take off! We then went down the hill to another forestry site (with an attendant) & told the attendant about this. He said he would pass on the info to authorities. We didn't stick around to see what, if anything, happened.
Years ago, before the reservation system came to be, people were doing similar things in the Provincial Parks (setting up & leaving, just to claim a spot). The reservation system was supposed to fix that.

garyhaupt
Explorer
Explorer
jimbob3ca wrote:
There is also a problem with British Columbia's forest service recreation sites. In the East Kootenay's, I often go out to use one of the sites that is near where I want to fish. I arrive on a Monday and find trailers or tents set up and nobody there, and nobody is there all week. I have even come a second time up to two or three weeks later, and the same trailer/trailers are still there. Some people treat these sites as their own private recreational property. Problem is partly due to cutbacks so that forest service staff cannot police this because of a lack of staff.



Man..that would irk me, so bad. I'd be taking pictures of units and plates and sending them off to RCMP, Parks, Forestry and local MLA.

Having now read the regs...it appears like it is wide open. Can park for two weeks.

Duration of stay at a recreation site

13 (1) A person must not camp at a recreation site for a period exceeding 14 consecutive days unless authorized by a designated forest official.

(2) For the purposes of calculating 14 consecutive days under subsection (1), a period of consecutive days is cumulative unless the person and their vehicle and equipment, as the case may be, are not present on the recreation site for a period of at least 72 consecutive hours.


So...with that in mind, you could forward your comments and pix (proof) to your MLA. The heat is on reservations for camping in BC. Perhaps they'll take a look at this too.

Mind you...one wants to be careful what they wish for.




Gary Haupt
I have a Blog..about stuff, some of which is RV'ing.

http://mrgwh.blogspot.ca/