Azdel or not?

[Stclairm]

I keep seeing so many stories about fiberglass walls delaminating and the such with luan as part of the construction. I see people who don't even have water damage and the walls are coming apart. So, would you only buy a trailer that uses Azdel or is there good reason to buy one that doesn't have it because the manufacturer has a superior reputation for wall construction and longivity? I realize that there are a ton of factors at play, I'm speaking generally. I haven't kept one more than 3 years and I seriously doubt there's a manufacturer that would stand behind their walls for 5, much less 10 years.
Some highly praised names don't use it, such as Grand Design, Northwoods, Outdoors RV, etc.
Sales people in general won't trash talk either if they have both kinds of trailers in stock. If they only have one kind, well, you know it's the best.

[goducks10]

If you don't get delam then you don't know for sure if you have a leak. 🙂 You could have a plywood floor or roof rotting and never know it. At least with delam you know you have a problem. 😞

[GDS-3950BH]

lane hog wrote:
When we were shopping for our latest RV (sixth), my requirements were either Azdel or stick & tin construction. We wound up with stick and tin.

I know if we ever get a leak, it's a matter of removing the siding and repairing the damage with regular carpentry tools. You can't do that with a laminated wall.

With Azdel, I would have been willing to take more of a chance because the wicking effect that luan has would be eliminated.

I'd keep a close eye on everything and keep those regular carpentry tools handy based on my experience with Grand Design and SOME OF THE ISSUES FOUND HERE.

[lane_hog]

When we were shopping for our latest RV (sixth), my requirements were either Azdel or stick & tin construction. We wound up with stick and tin.

I know if we ever get a leak, it's a matter of removing the siding and repairing the damage with regular carpentry tools. You can't do that with a laminated wall.

With Azdel, I would have been willing to take more of a chance because the wicking effect that luan has would be eliminated.

[GDS-3950BH]

GDS-3950BH wrote:

theoldwizard1 wrote:

I have to agree with you ! I don't understand why RV manufacturers are so reluctant to put an extra $500-$1000 into their product and maybe upgrade their warranty to 3 years (minus appliances).

Because all they care about is the bottom line. Putting an extra $1000 into the build would come from bottom line, and the goal is to make it to the warranty date without them having to spend a dime. You basically need to be a huge sucker to buy an RV in most cases. I've learned my lesson and will never buy another. They're mostly all overpriced garbage crammed full of junk provided or made by LCI, unless you want to spend a few hundred thousand and even then you'll most likely get handed a POS.

They're on a huge covid inspired roll now and pushing lots of junk out of Indiana to folks who are clueless as to the garbage theyre buying. Its the perfect scenario in the eyes of the RV Industry. Most of those covid commando folks don't even do a PDI nor know what one is. They run out and buy the biggest thing they can afford or find and head off to a campground. Most of that trash will be on the used market next year.

[GDS-3950BH]

D

[mr61impala]

BurbMan wrote:

Which brings you full circle...if you have to seal the trailer anyway, luan and wood framing is every bit as good as azdel and aluminum if they stay dry....

Hang on, this sounds too much like common sense.

[GDS-3950BH]

mr61impala wrote:
I was initially convinced that the Azdel was the only way to go until I learned it was almost exclusively used only on sidewalls.

Since delam on a back wall is as bad as delam on a side wall I decided to disregard the presence or absence of Azdel as a deciding factor.

Just my 2 cents.

Rear walls are usually only a sheet of filon with no backing substrate. All that holds the filon in pace is the corner trim, roof trim, and apron trim at the bottom and a window if it has one. It just hangs there. Thats why you see waves in rear walls of TT's and 5ers without caps. Very few manufacturers use a laminated assembly for rear walls. Rockwood/Flagstaff is one of the few.

[mr61impala]

I was initially convinced that the Azdel was the only way to go until I learned it was almost exclusively used only on sidewalls.

Since delam on a back wall is as bad as delam on a side wall I decided to disregard the presence or absence of Azdel as a deciding factor.

Just my 2 cents.

[GDS-3950BH]

theoldwizard1 wrote:

Desert Captain wrote:
Azdel has a number of benefits...

It is impervious to moisture, will not absorb drop. It its far lighter and stronger than Luan much less the cheaper plywood many manufacturers still use.

I would love to believe that statement but I can not find pricing on individual sheets of Azdel for comparison.

Far lighter? Its about 1/2 the weight according to the manufacturer. On a TT with a 30' box RV manufacturers such as Coachmen use @ a total of 15 sheets of the stuff overall. 1/8" luan weighs 21 lbs so Azdel weighs @ 10.5 lbs. Do the math, hardly a ground breaker.

[theoldwizard1]

goducks10 wrote:
If you take care of your RV with regular maintenance you should avoid most problems. I've seen 10-15 year old RV's with fiberglass over laun walls that look fine. I've seen new ones that have had delam within a couple years. Those latter are rare IMO. Get a plumbing leak and there goes you floor regardless of what walls you have. Maintenance, maintenance maintenance.

Roof leaks will destroy a floor also.

Repairing rot in a wood floor is very difficult ass everything is built on top of it. If the section is small, maybe. Large, hopefully your insurance will cover it.

I would like to see manufacturers go back to honeycomb laminate sub floors, but my guess that the extra support does not warrant the cost.

[theoldwizard1]

BurbMan wrote:
Which brings you full circle...if you have to seal the trailer anyway, luan and wood framing is every bit as good as azdel and aluminum if they stay dry....

I have to agree with you ! I don't understand why RV manufacturers are so reluctant to put an extra $500-$1000 into their product and maybe upgrade their warranty to 3 years (minus appliances).

[theoldwizard1]

Desert Captain wrote:
Azdel has a number of benefits...

It is impervious to moisture, will not absorb drop. It its far lighter and stronger than Luan much less the cheaper plywood many manufacturers still use.

I would love to believe that statement but I can not find pricing on individual sheets of Azdel for comparison.

[sgfrye]

goducks10 wrote:
Since Azdel is a man made product and the exterior fiberglass is as well even if you get water in between and you get some delam you shouldn't have the big pucker bubbles like you would with luan. Luan will breakdown and pucker and separate like plywood will. Think of Azdel like you would cement board siding for houses. It's virtually impervious to water.
I think it's better than Luan but in the end I want a floor plan I can enjoy. So many other factors come into play when deciding on an RV.
Siding is one as is the frame, suspension, lighting, interior finishes, storage, layout, etc.
If you take care of your RV with regular maintenance you should avoid most problems. I've seen 10-15 year old RV's with fiberglass over laun walls that look fine. I've seen new ones that have had delam within a couple years. Those latter are rare IMO. Get a plumbing leak and there goes you floor regardless of what walls you have. Maintenance, maintenance maintenance.

good response

[BurbMan]

theoldwizard1 wrote:
I would NEVER trust a typical EPDM roof for 10 years unless it was stored more than 50% of the time out of the sun.

If stored in the elements, somewhere between 5 and 10 years, it needs to be removed and replaced.

My EDPM roof was 13 yrs old when I sold the TT and tight as a drum. I cleaned it once a year, and re-coated it at the 10-year mark. Just need to very careful about using products that are not petroleum based. The lap sealant around openings had a tendency to crack and separate but the rubber itself was fine.

No question Azdel is superior to luan for water resistance, but it's only one component. There is a new company called Alliance RV that is making 5ers (no TT's) with aluminum frame, azdel sheathing on side and rear walls, one piece fiberglas front cap and PVC roof.

But you still have insulation and that 1/8" interior wallboard...so a water leak may not cause structural damage, but it will still soak the insulation and interior wallboard and create a mold issue. So leak damage is potentially less expensive to repair, but it doesn't allow you to not worry about having to re-seal the trailer. As an aside, you would expect that kind of construction in a 5er costing $100k+...

Which brings you full circle...if you have to seal the trailer anyway, luan and wood framing is every bit as good as azdel and aluminum if they stay dry....