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Unusual tire wear

spotrot
Explorer
Explorer
The outer treads on my steer tires have apparently worn to enough to expose a different rubber compound. I wondered if anyone else has experienced this. The rest of the tread is excellent.

The tires are 245/70R19.5 Bridgestone R250 and according to the charts have been over inflated if anything at 90 psi on a light front end (in spite of the relative heavy wear on the outer treads).

Bridgestone CS had no useful info, just said to take it to Larry, Curly and Mo at my local tire dealer for inspection.

Thanks
John
I'd post a photo if I knew how
44 REPLIES 44

CapriRacer
Explorer II
Explorer II
Wes Tausend wrote:
...I know that it is a common belief that tires worn on both the outer edges are always always caused by under-inflation. I would like to question that......


And you are right to do so.

My experience is that steer tires wear on the shoulders and drive tires wear in the center and that this phenomenon is much stronger than over/under inflation.

Besides, most tire manufacturers are doing what they can to reduce uneven wear - even uneven wear caused by over/under inflation and the steer/drive phenomenon I mentioned above.
********************************************************************

CapriRacer

Visit my web site: www.BarrysTireTech.com

Wes_Tausend
Explorer
Explorer
...

Even though this thread is already aging, I would like to add some comments to it. It is one of the better subjective discussions of tires that I have ever seen in that it contains fairly wide ranging ideas. I think it will make a good future reference source for RV_NET readers.

I know that it is a common belief that tires worn on both the outer edges are always always caused by under-inflation. I would like to question that.

I had recently been researching dual tire pressure equalization systems whereby the dually tire valves are connected together so that each inflates at the same time from one valve port. I seemed to have run across a related wear issue in this.

I read one or more opinions that dually mounted tires will wear unevenly when they are not inflated equally. One of the info sites was http://www.stengelbros.com/truck-and-wheel-parts/cat-eye-tire-pressure-system/. The claim here is that the under-inflated smaller tire will wear more because the larger full tire will "drag" it a bit. A detailed Case Study by Bridgestone is cited.

The thing is, that if that is true, and a single, non-driven tire is over-inflated and the center tread is larger (bulged), shouldn't the main center tread, which certainly has the most traction, also logically drag the lower contact outer edges of the same tire? In this case, the outer edges should wear more than the center when the tire is over-inflated, not under-inflated as is commonly believed. This is exactly what the OP states of such wear in his original post.. "...have been over inflated if anything...".

Even I am not sure about the above "wear" implication, but I like to keep an open mind. One might be able to detect the best inflation by just tediously choosing the tread inflation shape that yields the lowest TPMS temperature reading. Any scrubbing definitely adds heat, but less scrubbing adds less.

I did a fair amount of tire work on passenger, truck and tractors at my job when I was in high school and learned a lot, not necessarily all from older employees. This was back when belted tires first began to appear. From that and experience since, I can say that very few tire shops fully understand what they are doing and "old wives tales" do very much abound, so a healthy grain of salt is advised. This caution also goes for alignment, balance and ball-joint replacement. Shop training is often more sales-tactic than tech-tactic and probably always was.

The odd wear on the outer passenger and inner drivers front steer is probably caused by the necessary chronic drainage crown on both country gravel roads and paved highways. Even on interstates, the RH lane has this same RH downhill crown. All vehicles are then forced to steer slightly uphill while driving straight ahead. This crown is even known to cause the front passenger ball-joints to wear quicker since more weight is also tilted to the front rh steer tire while it jitters along down the road.

The more even additional wear on outer edges of the steer tire is due to side wind and this should actually be detectable by added front tire temps during intermittent windy area's on such days. But the overall wear should still be slightly more on the outer edges because, although both sidewalls roll slightly, greater weight-shift is on the downstream tire in a wind or downhill crown. As an example race cars generally have the camber changed (to lean in) to accommodate turn-traction, a flatter tread contact pattern during turning on the more heavily loaded tire. In such a case, the tire tread is flatter, rather than tucked-under when the sidewall rolls. If tires could just roll ahead on level ground with no side forces, with no tread squirm, they shouldn't wear at all. Of course there is always some tread squirm, even level.

Wes
Days spent camping are not subtracted from one's total.
- 2019 Leprechaun 311FS Class C
- Linda, Wes and Quincy the Standard Brown Poodle

spotrot
Explorer
Explorer
Wow, sorry to hear others have had to deal with strange chassis & tire issues too.
Good to hear you're rolling OK now

down_home
Explorer
Explorer
We ahd that happen to our original GC670 Goodyears but not thaat bad.
They said it was because the front endwas too light, they said it was not aligned properly, then the shocks were bad ad so on.
We replaced them with Michelin then new with orange oil in the compound, not sure what good that does but makes me worry about their life.
The tires are steer axle tires with decoupling grooves on both sides of the thread. One wheel and tire took one ounce to balance the other one required no weight atall on road force balancer.
We ahd the front axle straightened in Mo, later trying to cure a wonder problem, and then the factory on chassis alignment or frame fund the right side of rear axle forward about an inch or so from the left side, loosened axle and welded in washers to fix that.
Don't knwo which or in combination was causing the problem,... oh and the rubber bushings in the sway bar were all chewed out.Replaced them with other rubber bushings because they could not locate urethane near the factory. Steers and handles a lot better but I will be putting in new urethane bushings and shocks. 38,000 miles on an 05 Freightliner chassis

garyemunson
Explorer
Explorer
My experience with a number of Class A gas motorhomes over the decades is that with the alignment set correctly to whatever the specs call for in maximum positive toe in, the RV will track MUCH straighter on rough roads and crosswinds but you will see more wear on the outer edges of the steer tires. Many years ago I complained to a front end shop about the wear on an old "Flying W" Winnie and they took some toe in off. The difference in steering was noticeable and bad. Had it put back to spec and just resigned myself to replacing the fronts sooner in exchange for better tracking.

grldst
Explorer
Explorer
I've had this happen with two different motorhomes, 2 different chassis same tire manufacturer...Sumitomo.

On present motorhome, a freightliner chassis with 275x70x22.5, both front tires have wear on outside edges. This is after 4 yrs, approx. 40,000 miles. Just yesterday I rotated the front tires to the back. I plan on running these tires another 2-4 yrs.

Not sure what causes this, but have not seen it with Michlen or Toyo's that I have run. On a previous motorhome, I even had "rivering" in the tread on one tire, and "cupping" on another. Otherwise I've had good luck with Sumitomoes.

Just doing the one time rotation, I've been able to age the tires out.

spotrot
Explorer
Explorer
Don't need to ponder this anymore: last week at the end of a trip across Florida, a big front vibration quickly emerged. Upon inspection, the tires were significantly cupped on the outer tread. When removed, a pronounced bulge on the inside with distortion in the tread at that location seemed to indicate a separation in a belt. So it appears that the problems were due to a structural issue in the tires.

Like Groover advised, I'll run 10-15 psi more than what the chart lists.

FYI: McGee tire in Daytona installed Firestone ST230 tires for $667 out the door. Good tech and good service.

Thank you all for your interest and good comments

Groover
Explorer II
Explorer II
I had similar wear on my Freightliner with 22.5" wheels. I started looking around and found a lot of heavy trucks with front tires worn like that. A trucker friend told me that he runs 10 to 15psi more than the Goodyear chart recommends in his steering tires to control edge wear. I have started doing that but don't have enough miles on them yet to see the effect. I suspect that it has to do with side loads and a relatively crude suspension when compared with a car.

time2roll
Explorer II
Explorer II
Perspective is difficult with that one picture. Need one straight on to the tread. Both fronts would help. And maybe a rear tire to compare.

Does not look especially bad depending on miles and age.

spotrot
Explorer
Explorer
Bikeboy57 wrote:
I do not know how to view the other pictures, the links dead end for me.

Can you quantify, the tread wore quite a bit? 1/16, 1/2 or something else.

Would also mind posting what your corner weights were? Wouldn't hurt to have someone else confirm your tire pressures.

And I am totally confused, are you reacting to measured tire wear or the change in color in the photo?


Thank you for your reply. The different color appears to be a softer substrate and that was what concerned me.

The front weighed in at 2,700 lbs per each tire. The load information chart for 245/70R19.5 lists no values for less than 80 psi / 3640 lbs. My RV's weight is well below (25% below) that, I ran 90-95 psi and the tires still wore significantly more on the outer treads. (And it checked the gauges I used with another gauge.)

Just a FYI in case it helps others.

Thanks to all for your comments and tire information. It was a good learning experience.

spotrot
Explorer
Explorer
wolfe10 wrote:
spotrot wrote:
wolfe10 wrote:
Contact Roger Marble-- this is what he did for a living (retired tire forensic engineer):

Roger monitors the FMCA Forum and is on the FMCA Technical Advisory Committee.

You can make a post in this area: https://community.fmca.com/forum/17-tires/ There is no cost to participate in the FMCA Forum and is even open to non-FMCA members.

Just click on "Start new topic".


Thank, very informative site. I tried posting with "start new topic" but it now requires that you pay an annual fee to join and post



Incorrect. You do not need to join FMCA to participate in the FMCA Forum.

Right on the forums home page is a option to create a forums only account if you do not want to be a member.



Thank you again - your direction helped me find the place to create a forums only account

johnalex
Explorer
Explorer
It's somewhat difficult to tell how much wear there is, yet this appears as though the base compound being uncovered. Nothing to stress over, then again, actually you are exceptionally close to expecting to supplant that tire. ***Link Removed***
Foundation: When a tire is made, the track elastic is expelled in a section, slice to length, at that point folded over the uncured tire and the parts of the bargains piece are grafted together to frame a smooth, consistent looking track. (Note: The track join is cut at about a 45ยฐ point)

wolfe10
Explorer
Explorer
spotrot wrote:
wolfe10 wrote:
Contact Roger Marble-- this is what he did for a living (retired tire forensic engineer):

Roger monitors the FMCA Forum and is on the FMCA Technical Advisory Committee.

You can make a post in this area: https://community.fmca.com/forum/17-tires/ There is no cost to participate in the FMCA Forum and is even open to non-FMCA members.

Just click on "Start new topic".


Thank, very informative site. I tried posting with "start new topic" but it now requires that you pay an annual fee to join and post



Incorrect. You do not need to join FMCA to participate in the FMCA Forum.

Right on the forums home page is a option to create a forums only account if you do not want to be a member.
Brett Wolfe
Ex: 2003 Alpine 38'FDDS
Ex: 1997 Safari 35'
Ex: 1993 Foretravel U240

Diesel RV Club:http://www.dieselrvclub.org/

Bikeboy57
Explorer
Explorer
I do not know how to view the other pictures, the links dead end for me.

Can you quantify, the tread wore quite a bit? 1/16, 1/2 or something else.

Would also mind posting what your corner weights were? Wouldn't hurt to have someone else confirm your tire pressures.

And I am totally confused, are you reacting to measured tire wear or the change in color in the photo?
Richard and Rhonda
1999 Newell
Subaru Outback toad