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 > Why Tesla's are bad at towing!

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ford truck guy

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Posted: 12/05/19 01:19pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

agesilaus wrote:

The OTHER issue with the BIG RIG will be the NEW "ELD" Electronic Logging Device... The drivers have to factor inn the fact that they are "On Duty-Not driving" at each fill up.. They only have a certain amount of hours to work with.. Charging could eat into that pretty fast..

"This window is usually thought of as a “daily” limit even though it is not based on a 24-hour period. You are allowed a period of 14 consecutive hours in which to drive up to 11 hours after being off duty for 10 or more consecutive hours. The 14-consecutive-hour driving window begins when you start any kind of work."
-----------------------------------------

I think you just answered a question that has been a minor puzzlement. In the last year or so why have truck parking spots become so hard to find. In rest areas and such. This device must be preventing their workarounds for skipping rest breaks.


The days of us running "paper Logs" are gone.. no more running a good log, and a "FAKE" log... It is ALL electronic now.. UNLESS the vehicle is older than the year 2000.. OR the driver does not go past the 100 mile mark from his starting location more that 7 times in a period of 30 days..
Your truck will show EXCEPTIONS,a and they will be electronically sent to the trucks owner as well.. IF you get pulled for a random check, the first thing they do is ask for the device.

To answer you original question... YES, that is why parking is at a premium at MOST or ALL stops now. That is the reason I stopped staying in one for the night.. They have nowhere else to go... I have options..


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Campfire Time

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Posted: 12/05/19 01:45pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I love this guy. Hard to argue with math.

time2roll wrote:

mich800 wrote:

[emoticon] who called out Tesla? Are you suggesting that Jason Fenske's analysis is flawed because it references Tesla?
Main title to the thread. So that is member ShinerBock that called out Tesla.
Not flawed at all. Just that it is an EV problem not a Tesla problem.

Same as calling out FORD because the DEF hurts performance and economy when ALL have the same issues.


Since Tesla seems to have the best range and best technology, Jason Fenske is using them as the best case scenario. And because no one else has specs on a consumer level electric PU, or has an electric car with any useful tow rating like the Model X. But you are correct, it is an EV problem.

pianotuna wrote:

How many folks tow at 75 miles per hour? 55 would make more sense.


Watch it again, he accounted for 60 mph towing.


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Huntindog

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Posted: 12/05/19 02:32pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

agesilaus wrote:

4x4ord wrote:

I think it makes sense to have the power for electric vehicles embedded in the roadways to keep the batteries charged as the vehicles drive along the road... kind of like trolley busses.


LOL how many millions of miles of roadway are there in the US? Aha! There are about 4,071,000 miles of road, changing all the time of course. And figuring a conservative $100,000 a mile to electrify that would be $4,000,000,000, that 4 Trillion bucks plus operating and maintenance costs. And that does not include all the dirt an gravel roads that we like so much out west.



Not to mention the fact that wireless charging is very inefficient and wastes a lot of energy. There is also the factor of voltage drop over long distances.
I have thought about this alot. You would not need to wire every road. Start with the interstates, then the seconday highways and major roads. The beauty of is that with the car being constantly charged while driving, then the on board battery can be a lot smaller, as it would only be needed in residential areas.
Cars could be cheaper and more efficient, and the nasty stuff in batteries would be lessened.
If we ever get to 100% EV use, there will be some crashes,,, and a crash could turn into a hazmat situation real easy when two huge battery packs run into one another.



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agesilaus

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Posted: 12/05/19 02:38pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

OK there are roughly 50,000 miles of interstate. I'm sure you'd want to add in all those miles of state thruways and such so lets call the total 70,000 miles. These are all multi-lane so let make a guess and call them 6 lanes, 3 each way, on average. Those will be more expensive to electrify so lets call that $1,000,000 a mile which works out to $70,000,000,000. Who is going to pay for that? I vote electric car owners should foot the bill. Plus the O&M costs.


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NJRVer

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Posted: 12/05/19 03:18pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

agesilaus wrote:

OK there are roughly 50,000 miles of interstate. I'm sure you'd want to add in all those miles of state thruways and such so lets call the total 70,000 miles. These are all multi-lane so let make a guess and call them 6 lanes, 3 each way, on average. Those will be more expensive to electrify so lets call that $1,000,000 a mile which works out to $70,000,000,000. Who is going to pay for that? I vote electric car owners should foot the bill. Plus the O&M costs.




And how many $trillions have we flushed down the toilet by footing the bill for the military to provide private security for the oil companies.

I vote the oil companies pay for security out of their profits.

mich800

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Posted: 12/05/19 03:29pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

agesilaus wrote:

OK there are roughly 50,000 miles of interstate. I'm sure you'd want to add in all those miles of state thruways and such so lets call the total 70,000 miles. These are all multi-lane so let make a guess and call them 6 lanes, 3 each way, on average. Those will be more expensive to electrify so lets call that $1,000,000 a mile which works out to $70,000,000,000. Who is going to pay for that? I vote electric car owners should foot the bill. Plus the O&M costs.


Do we really want the government in charge (no pun intended) of the fueling requirements for travel? That is a recipe for disaster.

So now we get rid of 150k+ gas stations and now the government is in charge of what we pay and when we pay. Sounds like a scary proposition to me.

12thgenusa

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Posted: 12/05/19 03:30pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Just some general observations from his excellent mathematical presentation, not necessarily EV related.

1. Rolling resistance is a higher factor than most of us acknowledge. In his example of the Model X towing at 70, the required energy is 100.4 kWh and 84 kWh at 60. Since speed only effects the aerodynamic portion of his example, subtracting the difference of 16.4 kWh from the Aero column leaves 29.4 vs 32.8 for rolling resistance.

2. It would have been nice if he had included a column depicting the effect of inertial changes such as accelerating from 0 - 60. In real life one would have accelerated and slowed down many times in that 100 miles especially in the mountains. However that would have made his example more complicated.

3. Real life, most people towing get about 10 MPG whether towing with small TV and small trailer or larger truck with a large trailer (assuming gas). Since gasoline has about 33 kWh per gallon, the trip would really take about 330 kWh.


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time2roll

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Posted: 12/05/19 03:52pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

agesilaus wrote:

OK there are roughly 50,000 miles of interstate. I'm sure you'd want to add in all those miles of state thruways and such so lets call the total 70,000 miles. These are all multi-lane so let make a guess and call them 6 lanes, 3 each way, on average. Those will be more expensive to electrify so lets call that $1,000,000 a mile which works out to $70,000,000,000. Who is going to pay for that? I vote electric car owners should foot the bill. Plus the O&M costs.
Not going to happen ever.

But really do you think the first 1% would pay for all infrastructure and then the remaining 99% just come along and enjoy the ride.


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agesilaus

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Posted: 12/05/19 04:04pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

If you want to talk about not going to happen, you should think about the 'electric car' revolution. Barring some major technological development in energy storage the electric vehicles will never become the major segment of the transport mix. Not possible, not enough lithium, not enough electrical generation capacity and not enough electrical transmission capacity. It might cost trillions to rewire the country for 100% electrical vehicles. And the only possible current source of generation that could do it is nuke, if you insist that a minor gas be controlled.

pianotuna

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Posted: 12/05/19 04:08pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Campfire Time wrote:



pianotuna wrote:

How many folks tow at 75 miles per hour? 55 would make more sense.


Watch it again, he accounted for 60 mph towing.


Square of the speed is the biggest factor. 60 x 60 = 3600; 55 x 55 = 3025; 3025 / 3600 =~ 14% savings, all other things being equal.

75 x 75 = 5625 ; 3025 / 5625 =~ 46% savings.

Towing at max load weight is, in my opinion, a bit of a red herring, and unwise. Doing so on any vehicle is not going to give good results, fuel economy wise, nor result in a long life. Of course, you can tow a 50,000 pound load with an inadequate vehicle--but how far, and how fast?

When I have time, I drive 49 mph (78 kph) because it happened, in the past, to be a "sweet spot" for my class C. Because of some recent changes, I may be searching for a new sweet spot--probably faster.

My "one day record" for driving was 1400 kilometers (870 miles). That was done at 55 mph in my previous class C diesel.

In the last two weeks I saw a suggested lease price of $79 per month (36 months) on a Hyundai Ionic. Perfect for a daily commute, but not much good for towing any serious load. To be fair, the initial payment is $999. That effectively raises the lease price to $107 per month. Prices are going to drop, and five year ownership costs already favor Bev's.

BYD has produced 500,000 Bev buses. Most travel 155 miles on a charge with a battery capacity is 150 kwh.

The buses range in size from 23 feet to 60 feet.

These units are by no means perfect. But the operating costs are well below diesel units.

As to recharging, if I were a campground owner, I'd be installing meters. 150 kwh would be possible on a 50 amp pedestal at 14 hours.

GM is promising many Bev and plug in models in the near future.

I'm probably too old to see a BEV RV, but ten years from now I suspect there may be lots.

The Trans Canada Highway (#1) is in the process of having charging stations installed at Petro Canada gas stations. They are approximately 120 miles apart. The locations will be using the fastest possible charging method (DC high voltage) and can recharge to 80% of capacity in 30 minutes.

* This post was edited 12/05/19 04:15pm by pianotuna *


Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp hours of AGM in two battery banks 12 volt batteries, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

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