Auto step just stopped working

[SJ-Chris]

I have a 2008 Four Winds 31P Class C RV. Today my automatic step on the main coach side door just stopped working. This morning...no problem. This afternoon when I opened the door the step didn't drop down. I'm plugged in to shore power. I've got a strong battery bank and solar. The engine battery is fine.

What are the common problems/fixes? Where would I find any fuses associated with the automatic step? Where should I check first?

Thanks for your advice!

-Chris

[mgirardo]

dougrainer wrote:
Try it on a more common DOUBLE Electric step:( You will sing a different tune. The comments here are for CLASS A and CLASS C Motorhomes which the majority have Double electric steps. NO ACCESS to the motor when fully retracted. Doug

Yes, our 2009 Jayco Greyhawk 31FS Class C had a double electric step, the Kwikee Double Step, owner's manual #888. There was plenty of room to work.

-Michael

[j-d]

DW wanted the RV stabilized for when I'm up and out before she is. Carried a random assortment of small blocks till I found this very compact support.
It's smaller than the one CW sells, and far less expensive. I stop at Revels in Starke FL when we're passing through, and Charles has it priced far less than any of the web prices for "CP Products 65264 Step Stabilizer," not much over $10.
FWIW, the Hellwig Front and Rear Sway Bars took about 80% of that side sway from weight on the steps away. MORE than our HWH leveling jacks!
Back to it, the purveyors of these gadgets claim they reduce wear and tear on the steps.
What say YOU? If the Motor wasn't Worm Drive, forcing the Step with weight, would at least try to spin the motor. But with Worm, it's locked wherever it stops and it seems to me that weight on and off the steps, can be rough on the plastic gears in the motor, along with that safety clutch some of them have within the gear driven by the worm.
So, I'm glad to have the little Stabilizer from a political standpoint. As Default Gopher, Dishwasher, Garbage Collector and RV Tech, if there's a spillover benefit of step motor/gearbox protection, I'll take that too!

[Gottahaveit]

dougrainer wrote:
The most common problem for your type problem is a defective motor. It has a dead spot in the windings. Troubleshooting takes 30 seconds. Open and close the entry door. If the AMBER step light comes on and off when you open and close the door, the step module and wiring are OK. When it fails, you have someone open and close the door and you tap on the motor with a hammer. IF the step motor then operates the motor is bad. Always do your testing with the engine running. The extra 1 to 2 volts from the engine helps activate a bad motor. Doug

We followed Doug' advice about a year ago and he is right on the money. Light was on so ordered a replacement motor from Amazon and had it delivered to the Elks Lodge we were staying at. Replaced it the next day which was a piece of cake. Works great now. Thanks again Doug for your expert advice as always.

[dougrainer]

mgirardo wrote:

dougrainer wrote:
PS, If the motor fails when retracted, it will be almost impossible to replace it. With the step retracted, look and determine HOW you can get the motor out. A LOT easier with the steps extended.

The step motor on our Greyhawk failed when retracted. It was far from impossible to replace. Actually quite easy. I watched a few videos on YouTube how to replace the step motor and just went at it.

Here's a write up I did after I replaced my step. I thought it was a pretty easy process.

-Michael

Try it on a more common DOUBLE Electric step:( You will sing a different tune. The comments here are for CLASS A and CLASS C Motorhomes which the majority have Double electric steps. NO ACCESS to the motor when fully retracted. Doug

[pnichols]

dougrainer wrote:
As I stated, If the amber step light goes on and off when opening and closing the door, the proximity switch is functioning.

My Itasca has a step ON/OFF rocker switch right by the coach door. What this rocker switch does when it is ON is nothing ... except power the amber light to be ON whenever the step is extended for safety by helping one see the step in the dark.

I of course leave this rocker switch OFF when we're dry camping to help conserve battery power. Whether this rocker switch is ON or OFF, all other step functions are as normal.

[MrWizard]

The switches rarely fail, inside the switch
But wires break, and connections to the step wiring harness corrode if not properly protected

The early switches and control board design used normally open switches, and the door magnet closed the switch
A, closed connected circuit signaled the door was closed, and step should come up and stay up
But if a wire was broke, or if the door rattled enough to move the magnet away from the switch, the step would come down

Eventually they reversed the design of the board and the switch
To a normally closed switch that is open when the door is closed
And if a wire breaks, the step does not come out

It reduces damage to the step and the RV, from a step dropping down, catching a curb or drive way etc..

As to the OP, his motor either has a bad spot on the commutator or worn out sticky brushes, and it will keep getting worse

The proper thing to do is replace it while it will go out,
While he has access to the motor

[mgirardo]

dougrainer wrote:
PS, If the motor fails when retracted, it will be almost impossible to replace it. With the step retracted, look and determine HOW you can get the motor out. A LOT easier with the steps extended.

The step motor on our Greyhawk failed when retracted. It was far from impossible to replace. Actually quite easy. I watched a few videos on YouTube how to replace the step motor and just went at it.

Here's a write up I did after I replaced my step. I thought it was a pretty easy process.

-Michael

[dougrainer]

pnichols wrote:

D.E.Bishop wrote:
By proximity detector do you mean the magnetic door switch?

Yep.

It seems like a no-brainer to suspect and check this switch first if an automatic step stops working.

But I guess it may depend upon in what way the step stops working. My automatic step has at least a couple of different operating modes and maybe some of the modes don't require inputs from this switch. :h

The step requires the Proximity(magnet door switch) to function regardless of step brand and features. For instance, if the Magnet switch is defective and you close the door and start the engine, the step WILL NOT retract as designed. Doug

[dougrainer]

pnichols wrote:
Doug,

My step was self-tapping metal screwed up into place with somewhere between 4 to 6 of these screws to hold the whole step up into position.

How are these automatic steps on RVs usually held up in place? Winnebago installed mine at the factory and USUALLY Winne knows what they're doing - but not this time.

The front 2 of these 4 to 6 screws had become loose on our step. Almost one's full body weight would of course wind up pulling straight down on just these two front-most screws. After many years, the whole step was hence starting to hang down along it's front edge due to these front screws working loose - with the few still-tight screws in the back of the step's frame doing most of holding of the step at that point.

I replaced those front 2 screws with the proper kind of fastener - a couple of long 3/8" machine treaded lug bolts, wahers, and nuts that will not rust and now can be tightened up periodically if needed conveniently up right from the top of the first step.

Our friends had the same poor mounting situation by the Fleetwood factory on their Class C's manual steps ... so I suspect that the manual and automatic step manufacturers are not yet getting hit with enough injury lawsuits so as to use beefy enough step attachment designs for their RV entrance step products.

By the way, why is everyone so quiet regarding the proximity detector maybe failing and thus causing an automatic step to cease functiong? If this is ever the cause, it would be ultra easy to replace.

By Proximity, I assume you mean the door Magnet switch that activates when opening and closing the door? If so, As I stated, If the amber step light goes on and off when opening and closing the door, the proximity switch is functioning. Doug

[pnichols]

D.E.Bishop wrote:
By proximity detector do you mean the magnetic door switch?

Yep.

It seems like a no-brainer to suspect and check this switch first if an automatic step stops working.

But I guess it may depend upon in what way the step stops working. My automatic step has at least a couple of different operating modes and maybe some of the modes don't require inputs from this switch. :h

[D_E_Bishop]

pnichols wrote:
Doug,

My step was self-tapping metal screwed up into place with somewhere between 4 to 6 of these screws to hold the whole step up into position.

How are these automatic steps on RVs usually held up in place? Winnebago installed mine at the factory and USUALLY Winne knows what they're doing - but not this time.

The front 2 of these 4 to 6 screws had become loose on our step. Almost one's full body weight would of course wind up pulling straight down on just these two front-most screws. After many years, the whole step was hence starting to hang down along it's front edge due to these front screws working loose - with the few still-tight screws in the back of the step's frame doing most of holding of the step at that point.

I replaced those front 2 screws with the proper kind of fastener - a couple of long 3/8" machine treaded lug bolts, wahers, and nuts that will not rust and now can be tightened up periodically if needed conveniently up right from the top of the first step.

Our friends had the same poor mounting situation by the Fleetwood factory on their Class C's manual steps ... so I suspect that the manual and automatic step manufacturers are not yet getting hit with enough injury lawsuits so as to use beefy enough step attachment designs for their RV entrance step products.

By the way, why is everyone so quiet regarding the proximity detector maybe failing and thus causing an automatic step to cease functiong? If this is ever the cause, it would be ultra easy to replace.

By proximity detector do you mean the magnetic door switch? I don't know of any proximity detector being used other than that. There are literally hundreds of threads on the failure of Kwikee steps and most of them mention the door switch. The switches are probably the strongest part of the system.

[pnichols]

Doug,

My step was self-tapping metal screwed up into place with somewhere between 4 to 6 of these screws to hold the whole step up into position.

How are these automatic steps on RVs usually held up in place? Winnebago installed mine at the factory and USUALLY Winne knows what they're doing - but not this time.

The front 2 of these 4 to 6 screws had become loose on our step. Almost one's full body weight would of course wind up pulling straight down on just these two front-most screws. After many years, the whole step was hence starting to hang down along it's front edge due to these front screws working loose - with the few still-tight screws in the back of the step's frame doing most of holding of the step at that point.

I replaced those front 2 screws with the proper kind of fastener - a couple of long 3/8" machine treaded lug bolts, wahers, and nuts that will not rust and now can be tightened up periodically if needed conveniently up right from the top of the first step.

Our friends had the same poor mounting situation by the Fleetwood factory on their Class C's manual steps ... so I suspect that the manual and automatic step manufacturers are not yet getting hit with enough injury lawsuits so as to use beefy enough step attachment designs for their RV entrance step products.

By the way, why is everyone so quiet regarding the proximity detector maybe failing and thus causing an automatic step to cease functiong? If this is ever the cause, it would be ultra easy to replace.

[dougrainer]

pnichols wrote:
Chris,

You can also just unscrew the step from the coach's flooring/framing/whatever and drop the entire step if it's the motor that's the problem - instead of maybe the easy to get at proximity detector being the problem.

P.S and In Fact - A couple of years ago I had to replace some of our RV automatic step's puny attachment metel screws with 3/8" stainless steel lag bolts going through holes I drilled up above into solid coach steel framing. 220+ lbs. of me repeatedly entering/exiting the coach by stepping - year after year - on an inadequately attached automatic step was an accident waiting to happen.

That being said ... automatic RV steps are a wonderful thing to have. I even mounted a SideWinder automatic step on the passenger side of my 4X4 pickup truck cuz it's too high off the ground for "short" folks to get up into, and cuz I didn't want to reduce ground clearance whenever traveling off-road - like Nerf Bars do.

You have to be kidding. REMOVING the step to replace a step motor????? That's a LOT of work for a 10 minute job. And removing it does not solve the fact that you still cannot get easy access to the 3 motor mount bolts if the step is retracted. Doug

[dougrainer]

j-d wrote:
Doug, Have you autopsied any failed motors? When we had a couple older (1980's) Fords, there were continuing issues with window motors getting wet. The brushes would stick so they didn't put pressure on the commutator segments, or the segments themselves would get corroded. I could salvage those, the round motors. I don't recall needing to figure out if an armature winding had failed. Then Ford came up with the square motors, and I haven't figured out how to get the brushes back in, since they're at the other end of the motor...

No, do not waste my time doing that:) Just an easy way to determine if you have a defective motor. I believe lack of maintenance is the cause on older steps. Not cleaning them and lubing the pivot points. Newer steps(last 4 or 5 years) just a failure of the motors. Probably due to cutting the cost of the motors. I replace a LOT of Kwikee motors that are less than 2 years old and the linkages are not binding. Also, since Kwikee is the ONLY maker now, there is a larger numbers of steps out there and the failures will appear to be more common. When you had Coach Step AND Kwikee as the only 2, you did not notice the failures as much. What is interesting is, Coach Step(LCI) had a larger number of Motor failures than Kwikee, so I believe that once LCI purchased Kwikee and dropped the Coach Step brand, LCI told the Motor makers to cut costs. Doug