Lemon law for RVs

[sandyhu248]

I know some states have Lemon laws for vehicles, but does anyone know if such laws are in place for RVs? What options do buyers have if their brand new RV has multiple problems requiring it to be taken in for service constantly? These are problems with the RV/house portion, not engine problems. Any help of suggestions would be appreciated.

[SidecarFlip]

turbojimmy wrote:
Also keep in mind that lemon laws don't cross state lines. My sister bought a lemon minivan from a dealer in NY. A few hundred feet from the lot the check engine light came on. The dealer told her "too bad - you own it now." Long story short the thing had a history of transmission and electrical problems. State of NY wouldn't help because it was titled and registered in NJ. Dodge dealer wouldn't work on it because she didn't buy it local. Dodge corporate said dealers are independently owned and operated and they can't compel them to honor the manufactuer's warranty. She finally did find a dealer to replace the transmission. I found the electrical problem in a loose harness connector in the right front kick panel. It had left the factory that way.

Reminds me of Jeep vehicles. I live near Jeep in Toledo (Now FCA) and back in the day, when a Jeep came off the assembly line and it didn't start or it was missing parts or whatever, the vehicle was put on the side, repaired by an outside contractor and sold. FCA does the same thing today but a little differently. If a new vehicle is defective or is missing parts or has something wrong with it, Jeep's or Dodge pickup trucks or whatever, FCA relegates them to a holding lot (there is a huge one on Benore Avenue and Stickney and it's fenced in and has obscurity netting on the fences. Inside they have contractors foxing the vehicles. By contractors, I mean low paid employees, not FCA employees. They 'fix' them and then they are sold as new. Couple weeks ago a number of them caught on fire from electrical issues in that lot. Think about 20 burned up.

2 of my close friends retired from Jeep and I could tell you horror stories they related to me about what really goes on. Neither of them drive or own an FCA product. They both drive Toyota's.

Not just RV's by a long shot.

I like the video, That attorney explains it quite well. Rent one and then buy it.

[Chum_lee]

I don't like to admit it, but when I was younger, I had some "acquaintances" who owned certain "problem" cars. We would all go to a party on Friday night. When the party was over, we discovered that the fully insured "problem" car got stolen and never recovered. Imagine that! I've also heard that "accidents" happen too. Be careful, cameras are everywhere.

Chum lee

[klutchdust]

j-d wrote:

klutchdust wrote:
Having owned a 1985 Ford Thunderbird I can agree with your comments. It wasn't until many years later Ford Motor Company finally admitted to having a control module failure that reacted to heat that turned off circuitry that shut off the car.

Was the issue traced to a TFI (Thick Film Integrated) Ignition Module? We had an 84 and 86 TBird, both 3.8 V6 TBI, and that was one problem we didn't have. Put transmissions in both of them...

I heard Motorola made some of the TFI Modules and Ford made some. Don't recall if anybody else did, but IIRC, the Ford-made ones had a high failure rate. I'd guess, but again not sure, they all would have been branded Motorcraft.

BTW, we liked the cars. Comfortable ride, decent power, reasonable MPG, and nice options. The 84 was pretty basic but still A/C, power windows, locks, mirrors and driver seat. The 86 had all that plus power recline, auto A/C, both seats powered, digital dash, and overdrive. Really nice, but oddly, the 84 seemed to have more character. Finally donated it with everything working (also everything leaking) at 200,000+ miles. 86 left the family and then lived a life of neglect that I believe killed it below 100,000. A shame. Those cars were much maligned, but I thought they were great.

Yes it was. Ford even tried blaming the problem on the fact that a hitch was installed and wiring was added. It was eventually traded in and hopefully sent to the crusher.
That vehicle,the 85, was one of the nicest,smoothest riding vehicles I have ever owned, except it would not stay running. After that came K-5 Blazers, trucks and Jeeps. And of course my Class C.

[ron_dittmer]

A good successful long term relationship with any motor home requires two basic ingredients.
1) The owner is a handyman at home and is not afraid to utilize his talents with his motor home.
2) The owner buys a motor home with a decent reputation for quality construction, primarily the structure of the house and interior cabinetry, and general workmanship.

Components purchased by the RV manufacture such as windows, vents, and appliances, are identical across better and lesser brands. It is the quality of workmanship in their installation and their plumbing and electrical practices, hence the need for a handyman to keep it all working right through the years. Some RV workmanship can get so bad that a handyman is needed all the time. A quality built rig will need less TLC along the way.

My personal experience with our 2007 Phoenix Cruiser that we bought new in 2007......it has required very little TLC, needing a tightening of a screw here and there, but over-all has not required much attention. I have also addressed a couple of inherent problems, for example our microwave oven would always get loose from road vibration which I resolved through a modification to the original installation. (Details With Pictures Here)

But....our rig is also my hobby so I am doing many things to "improve" it to make to work even better for us. So my handyman skills are applied much more often for improvement projects, not repair projects.

[j-d]

klutchdust wrote:
Having owned a 1985 Ford Thunderbird I can agree with your comments. It wasn't until many years later Ford Motor Company finally admitted to having a control module failure that reacted to heat that turned off circuitry that shut off the car.

Was the issue traced to a TFI (Thick Film Integrated) Ignition Module? We had an 84 and 86 TBird, both 3.8 V6 TBI, and that was one problem we didn't have. Put transmissions in both of them...

I heard Motorola made some of the TFI Modules and Ford made some. Don't recall if anybody else did, but IIRC, the Ford-made ones had a high failure rate. I'd guess, but again not sure, they all would have been branded Motorcraft.

BTW, we liked the cars. Comfortable ride, decent power, reasonable MPG, and nice options. The 84 was pretty basic but still A/C, power windows, locks, mirrors and driver seat. The 86 had all that plus power recline, auto A/C, both seats powered, digital dash, and overdrive. Really nice, but oddly, the 84 seemed to have more character. Finally donated it with everything working (also everything leaking) at 200,000+ miles. 86 left the family and then lived a life of neglect that I believe killed it below 100,000. A shame. Those cars were much maligned, but I thought they were great.

[turbojimmy]

Also keep in mind that lemon laws don't cross state lines. My sister bought a lemon minivan from a dealer in NY. A few hundred feet from the lot the check engine light came on. The dealer told her "too bad - you own it now." Long story short the thing had a history of transmission and electrical problems. State of NY wouldn't help because it was titled and registered in NJ. Dodge dealer wouldn't work on it because she didn't buy it local. Dodge corporate said dealers are independently owned and operated and they can't compel them to honor the manufactuer's warranty. She finally did find a dealer to replace the transmission. I found the electrical problem in a loose harness connector in the right front kick panel. It had left the factory that way.

[klutchdust]

Ralph Cramden wrote:

klutchdust wrote:

sandyhu248 wrote:
I know some states have Lemon laws for vehicles, but does anyone know if such laws are in place for RVs? What options do buyers have if their brand new RV has multiple problems requiring it to be taken in for service constantly? These are problems with the RV/house portion, not engine problems. Any help of suggestions would be appreciated.

Are you familiar with how the lemon laws work. In California if you have an issue and they are unable to repair the problem after numerous attempts you can proceed with a claim.Good luck. The claim is not cut and dried. My friend owned a GMC diesel pick-up. It overheated numerous times, it had a transmission failure numerous times and each time it was repaired until it happened again . His attempt to enforce the so called "lemon laws" were time consuming and frustrating. Auto companies do not just walk up and hand you the keys to a new vehicle. Like Insurance companies they will make every attempt to avoid paying your claim or replacing your vehicle. I have heard of only one person that had their vehicle replaced and that was him, after 3 years of headaches. I have friends that work at dealerships and if the "lemon law" is brought up in the conversation they laugh. A new problem,regardless of how many it may be, does not entitle you to compensation.
The Lemon law is like the death penalty in California, it exists, kind of,sort of......

I know someone who received a new vehicle through PA's lemon law from Ford. All said and done the process was close to 3 years in length, and when he factored in all his associated costs along the way he realized he would of been much better off to just have dumped it, bought another, and sucked up and took the loss. It would of been much cheaper with less aggravation.

Anyone who thinks lemon laws benefit the end user are sadly mistaken. They are feel good legislation and skewed towards the manufacturer via loopholes and clever verbiage.

Having owned a 1985 Ford Thunderbird I can agree with your comments. It wasn't until many years later Ford Motor Company finally admitted to having a control module failure that reacted to heat that turned off circuitry that shut off the car. Every fuel component in that vehicle was changed. The car was almost completely re-wired. Ford would not budge. You could not sell it because it would not run. All the time though the payments had to be made.

[Ralph_Cramden]

klutchdust wrote:

sandyhu248 wrote:
I know some states have Lemon laws for vehicles, but does anyone know if such laws are in place for RVs? What options do buyers have if their brand new RV has multiple problems requiring it to be taken in for service constantly? These are problems with the RV/house portion, not engine problems. Any help of suggestions would be appreciated.

Are you familiar with how the lemon laws work. In California if you have an issue and they are unable to repair the problem after numerous attempts you can proceed with a claim.Good luck. The claim is not cut and dried. My friend owned a GMC diesel pick-up. It overheated numerous times, it had a transmission failure numerous times and each time it was repaired until it happened again . His attempt to enforce the so called "lemon laws" were time consuming and frustrating. Auto companies do not just walk up and hand you the keys to a new vehicle. Like Insurance companies they will make every attempt to avoid paying your claim or replacing your vehicle. I have heard of only one person that had their vehicle replaced and that was him, after 3 years of headaches. I have friends that work at dealerships and if the "lemon law" is brought up in the conversation they laugh. A new problem,regardless of how many it may be, does not entitle you to compensation.
The Lemon law is like the death penalty in California, it exists, kind of,sort of......

I know someone who received a new vehicle through PA's lemon law from Ford. All said and done the process was close to 3 years in length, and when he factored in all his associated costs along the way he realized he would of been much better off to just have dumped it, bought another, and sucked up and took the loss. It would of been much cheaper with less aggravation.

Anyone who thinks lemon laws benefit the end user are sadly mistaken. They are feel good legislation and skewed towards the manufacturer via loopholes and clever verbiage.

[klutchdust]

sandyhu248 wrote:
I know some states have Lemon laws for vehicles, but does anyone know if such laws are in place for RVs? What options do buyers have if their brand new RV has multiple problems requiring it to be taken in for service constantly? These are problems with the RV/house portion, not engine problems. Any help of suggestions would be appreciated.

Are you familiar with how the lemon laws work. In California if you have an issue and they are unable to repair the problem after numerous attempts you can proceed with a claim.Good luck. The claim is not cut and dried. My friend owned a GMC diesel pick-up. It overheated numerous times, it had a transmission failure numerous times and each time it was repaired until it happened again . His attempt to enforce the so called "lemon laws" were time consuming and frustrating. Auto companies do not just walk up and hand you the keys to a new vehicle. Like Insurance companies they will make every attempt to avoid paying your claim or replacing your vehicle. I have heard of only one person that had their vehicle replaced and that was him, after 3 years of headaches. I have friends that work at dealerships and if the "lemon law" is brought up in the conversation they laugh. A new problem,regardless of how many it may be, does not entitle you to compensation.
The Lemon law is like the death penalty in California, it exists, kind of,sort of......

[DutchmenSport]

I watch the video from the above post. I must say he presents a pretty bleak picture of the RV industry. Unfortunately there is a lot of Truth in what he says. I don't think it can be emphasized enough that purchasing an RV is not the equivalent of purchasing an automobile. The standards are completely different.

Based upon what he presents in the video, no one would ever buy an RV. But the fact is we keep buying them but we also are aware of the expectations when we purchase them. It still goes without saying that there is a large amount of work that has to be done on an RV yourself. Some things like drawers falling off loose screws or a hinge that might need tightening down is all stuff that anyone can handle them self with a screwdriver or a hammer. When it comes to something major like, a plumbing repair, then warranty should cover those type of issues. But there's also the problem of user abuse. If it's determined that the user has indeed done something incorrect with the camper, then no warranty will ever cover that. And unlike a car it camper is a much more fragile device. The electronics is extremely complicated. There's water Plumbing involved. There's a drain system involved. There is a c electricity involved. There's DC electricity involved. There's all kinds of appliances. There's all kinds of electronics. There's all kinds of materials in the structure, roof, ceiling, walls, floor, countertops, you name it.

Then add to the fact that you're taking a home putting wheels on it and driving it Down a Bumpy Road at 65 to 85 miles per hour, the equivalent of a hurricane, and tornado, all in one, it's a wonder that they hold together at all.

Your absolute best line to protection is to be fully aware of what you're purchasing before you buy it. And then to have a little bit of mechanical ability behind you. It pays to have a few good tools. And somewhere where you can actually work on the camper occasionally. No one ever said that RV ownership is cheap. RV ownership is one of the most expensive Hobbies you'll get into, next to owning a boat. There again your best line of defense is to learn to do things yourself.

[Photomike]

Your best chances are with the dealer and a lot of visits, phone calls and document EVERYTHING with words (dates, conversations, etc) and pictures.

If that does not work call the manufacturer and get them involved using the documentation and pictures to help you show what the problems are and what has been done or not done.

Then if that does not work let them know that you are going to go public and will let everyone know what you have dealt with. Post everywhere, contact the BBB and any RV associations that they may belong to.

Also be realistic in your demands. If the water pump is dead that is a actual issue. If the water pump is loud, and most are, they will not be able to help you. I know a few people that had major problems and they did get fixed after a lot of work on the owners part to get it done. Should not be required but..........

[carringb]

turbojimmy wrote:
This guy explains it pretty well:

Don't buy an RV

This is one of my favorite pod casts!

Unfortunately he is correct. You're pretty much on your own.

[Lwiddis]

I'd suggest you start with the great State of North Carolina. See http://www.ncdoj.gov/Consumer/Automobiles/Lemon-Law.aspx

[turbojimmy]

This guy explains it pretty well:

Don't buy an RV