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Racine96

Racine

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Posted: 08/29/17 09:50am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I just got a Hellwig 7718 sway bar for my Ford 450 MH. The instructions says that the bolts need to be tighten to torque specifications. However, it does not says what is that number for none of bolts. Do any one know what are these numbers? Where I can find them? Any help will be appreciated.

WyoTraveler

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Posted: 08/29/17 10:37am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

There is a table of torques for bolt size if you google. I would call Hellwig first.

j-d

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Posted: 08/29/17 11:53am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Since you say "7718" I imagine that your E450 is 2008 or newer, and the forward bolt on each cross member bracket is larger than the rear one. Is this correct?

I so, I can tell you the torque for the rear ones, since front and rear were that size through 2007. But I don't have the fronts. And if you're asking about torque at end links to sway bar, I don't have those either.

I've heard the front bolts on these are difficult.


If God's Your Co-Pilot Move Over, jd
2003 Jayco Escapade 31A on 2002 Ford E450 V10 4R100 218" WB

lanerd

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Posted: 08/29/17 12:13pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Mr. Google is your friend. Just search for torque specs for bolts and I'm sure you will find a table that will tell you exactly.

Simple


Ron & Sandie
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OFDPOS

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Posted: 08/29/17 12:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

If memory serves me right ? That would be the front Anti sway bar !
If so GET the torque specs if you can, the rear bolts are smaller then the front bolts.
I,,, NOT torquing to specs when I installed the Anti sway bar,so when I went to remove the bolts to install the Safe-T-Plus steering stabilizer bracket pulled the threads right out of the threaded hole on the drivers side.
Had to re-tap the hole...

j-d

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Posted: 08/29/17 02:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

OFDPOS wrote:

If memory serves me right ? That would be the front Anti sway bar !

If so GET the torque specs if you can, the rear bolts are smaller then the front bolts.

I,,, NOT torquing to specs when I installed the Anti sway bar,so when I went to remove the bolts to install the Safe-T-Plus steering stabilizer bracket pulled the threads right out of the threaded hole on the drivers side.

Had to re-tap the hole...

Yep, I had to look it up. Always best to state Year, Make, Model...

Uh Huh... an OP here upgraded the Axle on a 2006 E450 so he ordered the 7718 sway bar. Then found the front bolts were bigger. Decided to enlarge the front holes to the newer size... Buggered them, had to call in a welder...

I was sure if anybody had the specs, you would...

Which makes you the second OP with trouble about those holes...

Or the third - One of us couldn't get the late model big bolts loose...

j-d's Hypothesis: Something is wrong with Ford's assembly technique on the front bolts in 2008 and newer. Hole is wrong, bolt is wrong, over-torqued or hole galled. Next guy who puts a wrench on one has problems. We've had too much of this on late models, after nothing on older ones...

OFDPOS

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Posted: 08/29/17 04:22pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Yep , nope didn't get the trq specs, but also didn't over tighten the rear smaller bolts first time around,,, er I at least I thought I didn't ! lol
But when I removed it to install the steering stabilizer the threads came out with the bolt.

On first time around removing the stock Anti sway bar , the front bolts I couldn't even get them loose with an impact gun.
Literally had to use 3/4 breaker bar with an impact socket and a cheater pipe on the breaker bar to get both sides front bolts out.
They were tight all the way out..
Funny thing , they hand screwed back in.
The smaller rear bolts were tough , but nothing like the front ones.

The frame is just drilled and threaded for the bolts , no extra support , nut etc just 4 maybe 5 threads to hold the bolt.
Plus the frame is boxed so you couldn't get in there and add a nut , unless you wanted to tear alot of the front end off to get access ...

I know I'll get flamed for this comment , I feel Karma has already visited me as it is.
I am NOT a ford fan ...
I know its been years , but working at both GM and Ford dealerships service depts and what little I've worked on both , Gm has it right on a lot of stuff over Ford...

Racine96

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Posted: 08/29/17 09:56pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Well, called Hellwig but they said they did not have the information.They said I had to ask the dealer. I went to a Ford dealer and the service manager was very helpful. He got the numbers for me. What surprised him and me was the difference between the front bolts and the rear bolts torque specification. Big difference. Thanks for your responses.

j-d

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Posted: 08/30/17 05:06am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Racine96 wrote:

...went to a Ford dealer and the service manager was very helpful. He got the numbers for me. What surprised him and me was the difference between the front bolts and the rear bolts torque specification...


And what were the numbers, please? Amid all this uncertainty in the world, we need some facts we can rely on.

I'll write them in my manual.

You probably did that SM a favor. Without your inquiry he likely would never have known the fasteners and specs "now" (actually for nearly 10 years) were different.

OFDPOS remark he needed more than his impact wrench to get the front fasteners out, tells me something was wrong about how they went IN. Even more so since he said they went back so easily. I haven't seen one of the newer E-Series with the bigger bolts. But I'm starting to think this is the scenario:

1. No change in metal thickness of frame where the bolts screw in
2. Bolt size sharply increased
3. Bigger bolt size brings more thread pitch
4. This means LESS bolt threads bearing on the metal of the frame
5. Bolt installed with torque appropriate for the appropriate receiving threads (like a Nut or threaded hole in a Casting)
6. This torque is excessive for the few receiving threads in this part of the frame
7. Threads ruined on the way IN. One time use fastening. Play hell getting apart. Nothing left to put back.
8. Engineer might have been right about needing a larger bolt. Escapes me why, but engineer did not anticipate the larger bolt rendering the installation actually weaker

Would it be possible to use a nut with a piece of rod welded to it, fished into the damaged area? Something like the following. This is a nut welded into a piece of bar stock, then the rod. The ones I can't find a pic of, are simply nuts, sometimes Whiz Nuts, with rod tack welded to them. Used installing trailer hitches, base plates, the like.
[image]

OFDPOS

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Posted: 08/30/17 09:06am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

It was the smaller bolt in the rear of the holding bracket that pulled the threads out with the bolt.
Not sure if a person could fish something like that in without removing some of the front end ? Grille , bumper etc for access ?
When I get the MH back I'll slid back underneath and see what all is attached to the front of the boxed-in frame.

Yeah that was strange having to use a cheater on the breaker bar to loosen the front bigger bolts all the way out till about the last 4-5 threads then just had to use a ratchet to get it the rest of the way out.
Threads were clean, no rust, no thread locker on the bolts..

I had to re tap the rear smaller bolt hole and the frame looked very thin , maybe 1/4 inch thick ?? So tapping the hole only gets 4 maybe 5 threads , standard thread .
Just a guesstimate but I'd say the front bolts are 3/4 and the rears are 3/8 at least it was a 3/8 tap that I used to re-tap the hole on the drivers side.
If I remember right it was an 18 mm socket to take the front bolts out and a 15 mm to take the rears out.

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