Emolsee
Reno
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Our travel trailer just started loosing brakes as we travel. A couple of days ago I lost the trailer brakes a couple of hours into or drive. That night I noticed that the plastic pin that connects to the emergency disconnect trailer brake box was melted. I replaced the whole breakaway brake box setup and plugged the trailer brakes in and it looked like they were working. Then the next day, about an hour into the trip the brakes stopped functioning again. I stopped and crawled under the trailer to check all the connections I could find. I noticed that pulling the pin on the emergency break away brake box and putting it back in made my trailer brakes function again. But after 30 minutes or so the break controller in the tow vehicle will start flashing again letting me know that the trailer brakes aren’t working. Sometimes they cycle back and forth from functioning to not functioning over 30 minutes or so, but they usually end up not working and an be cycled back on by pulling the trailer emergency disconnect plug and then putting it back in. But the brakes do not stay on. Could this be a problem with the controller? I do not understand the connection with the break-away break pin and why that would make the brakes function for a while.
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eHoefler
ozark mountains
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Check your umbilical cord to the vehicle, and the connections in the junction box on the the trailer. You have a poor/loose connection some where.
2021 Ram Limited, 3500, Crew Cab, 1075FTPD of Torque!, Max Tow, Long bed, 4 x 4, Dually,
2006 40' Landmark Mt. Rushmore
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JBarca
Radnor, Ohio, USA
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We need a little more info to try and help better. You may have more than one issue going on at a time.
What year is the camper? Make and model?
Not sure if you are the original owner or not; any idea how many towing miles are in it?
What brand and model brake controller do you have?
When you stated you appeared to have corrected the issue, then after some time passed into towing once again, the brakes stopped working. What told you the brakes were not working in "all" the times when they stopped working? Did the brake controller flash, if the brake controller had no errors; you could not feel the brakes working, etc.? We need more info on how you knew they were working and when they were not working.
Here are some big-picture things that "might" be going on. Any and all may be going on at the same time.
The melted breakaway switch, these switches do go bad over time. Water gets in and corrodes the contacts making them fail in a few ways.
- The pin can get frozen in place as the O ring dries up, and it feels like it jams the plunger in.
- When the contacts corrode, and the pin is pulled, the resistance in the switch is very high and starts creating a lot of heat, and, in some cases the switch melts.
- The contact corrosion can sometimes corrode the contacts together if it is bad enough, with the plunger in place. This allows the power to be on a lot of the time and since the connection has high resistance, it creates a lot of heat for a long time and might be what melted your switch.
- The 3 above are the more common failure modes; I'm sure there are more. If you read the directions on these switches, many brands state to replace them every 3 to 5 years. The breakaway is a forgotten safety device. I have seen many campers 10 to 20 years old still with the original switch.
While you changed the switch, the braking problem still seems to be happening. As I stated, you may have more than one problem at the same time. Yes, the breakaway switch was bad, but there can be more.
1. As the other poster stated, check the 7 wire brake plug/connection. Clean up all the contacts. It is common that corroded contacts can make and break as the truck bounces down the road or the cord is pulling from not enough clearance in a turn etc.
2. You may have the classic old camper worn wire inside the axle tube problem. As the camper gets older with higher towing miles, the wire inside the axle tube is chaffed bouncing down the road. The hot wire or ground wire can have the insulation worn clean through to the wire. When the hot wire touches the tube, and you apply the brake power, it shorts the brake coil from getting any power. This comes and goes depending on how the worn wire lands in the tube.
3. You have bad brake connections in the wiring in the camper. It can be the ground wire not making contact. While the hot wire gets looked at a lot, losing ground will stop the brakes from working also. In this case, if you lose the DC -, (ground), in the 7 wire cable where it attaches to the camper, the camper frame lost ground or any other grounding place all the way to the brake coils.
4. If the breakaway switch was partly on for a long time when it failed, the brakes had some level of power going to them for a long time while towing. After you check all the wiring as stated above, you may have to pull the brake drums and look inside for mechanical issues. There are many issues that can happen inside, maybe not all 2 or 4 brakes at once, but if the breakaway was sending power for hours on end while towing, something could be wearing at a higher than normal rate.
You stated, it seemed like when you pulled the new breakaway switch pin and reinserted it, the brakes seemed to start working again. This may just be a coincidence, it is not the cure of your problems. Applying full power and then removing it, cycles the magents and can wiggle the magnet arm. This wiggle action may free up a brake that was partly tight being engaged when you stopped. The event was temporary and random.
Older campers have the above more frequently than newer ones, but not always.
Hope this helps
John
John & Cindy
2005 Ford F350 Super Duty, 4x4; 6.8L V10 with 4.10
CC, SB, Lariat & FX4 package
21,000 GCWR, 11,000 GVWR
Ford Tow Command
1,700# Reese HP hitch & HP Dual Cam
2 1/2" Towbeast Receiver
2004 Sunline Solaris T310SR
(I wish we were camping!)
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deltabravo
Spokane, WA
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eHoefler wrote:Check your umbilical cord to the vehicle, and the connections in the junction box on the the trailer. You have a poor/loose connection some where.
DITTO.
It's probably a loose umbilical cord at the truck receptacle.
On the trailer cor, take a screwdriver and move the electrical contact to cause more "spring" tension when the cord is plugged in to the truck.
Also check the truck and trailer connector for dirt, grit, grime, corrosion.
And NEVER use one these caps to "protect" the trailer plug. They cause more problems than they solve. This video I made proves it.
* This post was
edited 03/21/23 05:58pm by deltabravo *
2009 Silverado 3500HD Dually, D/A, CCLB 4x4 (bought new 8/30/09)
2018 Arctic Fox 992 with an Onan 2500i "quiet" model generator
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Emolsee
Reno
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For a bit more information…
My brake contrôler is a Tenonsha Sentinel. Our tow vehicle is a 2003 Ford Excursion and I’m assuming the brake contrôler was purchased and installed early in the life of this vehicle by the original owner.
Our trailer is a 2015 Rockwood Signature Ultralite by Forest River model # 8327SS. My brother bought it new. It has more than 20k towing miles on it.
For this controller… generally when you hook up the trailer cord there is a steady green light that is illuminated letting you know everything is working correctly. If that green light flashes it indicates a direct short or an excessive current request. If brakes are applied when the green light is flashing, the additional lights (meant to indicate firmer trailer breaking) all flash and you feel no trailer braking so you know that the brakes are not working.
On my drive yesterday…
-We hooked up and initially the controller had a stead green light indicating everything was fine.
-Before moving the trailer the contrôler began blinking a single green light noting a short or excessive current request.
- I crawled under the trailer to once again check the grounds and the see if there could be a visible problem, I checked the connections to the batteries, and I took a screw driver and moved all the contacts closer. I plugged in a 7 pin tester and it showed no problems. Green light was still blinking. I pulled the break-away plastic pin and reinserted it and the green light on the contrôler went to steady green.
-As we began driving… Initially the steady green light was on for 30 minutes, then the light flashed indicating a short etc., then the light went steady green again for an hour, then the flashing started and stayed on for more than an hour when I pulled over and unplugged the break-away plastic pin and re-inserted it. this brought the steady green light back on for a while then the controller really did some weird stuff… went completely dark for 30 seconds, came back on with a steady green light, then flashed and did this cycle at random times. Last 30 minutes of the pull yesterday was a flashing green light again indicating no trailer brakes functioning (and it felt this way too).
Could the previous problem with the break-away switch (that I have replaced) have damaged the controller? Should I look at replacing that? Could I maybe have gotten a faulty new break-away switch and think about replacing that? We have towed this trailer from coast to coast with no braking problems until these past few days.
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BarneyS
S.E. Lower Michigan
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I would try replacing the brake controller. Don't know about the policy now but a few years ago Tekonsha would replace their brake controllers for no cost. All you needed to do was take to a place that sold them and they would give you a new one. Worth a try now I would think.
Barney
2004 Sunnybrook Titan 30FKS TT
Hensley "Arrow" 1400# hitch (Sold)
Not towing now.
Former tow vehicles were 2016 Ram 2500 CTD, 2002 Ford F250, 7.3 PSD, 1997 Ram 2500 5.9 gas engine
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JBarca
Radnor, Ohio, USA
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Hi,
Your added info has helped.
You are correct, the brake controller was an aftermarket add on by someone. Ford never started adding brake controllers until the 2005 Super Dutys with an integrated controller. The last Excursion, a 2005 model, never got the upgrade, nor did the V10 engine upgrades the Superdutys did.
I agree with Barney, you "might" now have a brake controller issue. At this point, ideally, you can sort out, is the problem in the trailer or the truck?
Here is one way to help sort out truck or camper. You stated this,
Quote:-We hooked up and initially the controller had a stead green light indicating everything was fine.
-Before moving the trailer the contrôler began blinking a single green light noting a short or excessive current request.
That is the setup for the test if you can recreate it or close to it. The truck and camper hitched but not moving, and the brake controller started acting up.
By hitching up and powering the brake controller, but not moving the trailer, the brake controller can warm up, and if the controller starts showing faults, then try this.
Step 1, Unplug the 7 wire cable from the truck. Position the 7 wire cord up so it will not drag the ground.
Now, with the 7 wire disconnected, pull the emergency break away, this will apply full power to the brakes.
Move the truck ahead very slowly. You are trying to do a drag test. You should feel large braking action on the trailer, you do not want to drag the wheels, but should feel very hard braking. Gravel is best for this test so the tires skid, but you can tell real quick if the trailer is braking hard on a hard surface road, 1 or 2 feet movement will tell you, but the camper does have to move about 6" rolling forward to engage the brakes. The wheels may or may not lock up, but you should feel the brakes working.
If the camper has brakes, this does not mean 100% that there is not a trailer problem, but it rules out many things. Enough to at least suspect the issue is in the truck.
When you unplug the 7 wire, and the truck was on, the controller may stop the fault or not. It should sense an unhooked trailer at least. Not sure what it will read out as, as the controller may be damaged. But you at least now know, the trailer brakes worked during the breakaway test.
There is also something you should know, some brake controllers cannot handle a large current back feed from the camper. By pulling the emergency break away, with the 7 wire cord attached to the truck with the brake controller powered up, is a high back feed current into the controller from the camper battery. That back feed action has damaged some brands/models of brake controllers.
If you want to try to reset the brake controller in a test mode, pull out the 7 wire cable and plug it back in, or turn the truck power on an off, but do not use the emergency breakaway switch as that can be a problem.
Here is a thought, when your breakaway switch was failing originally and melted the switch, that event was sending a back feed of current into the truck brake controller. That may have damaged the controller, and now you are fighting a brake controller issue.
There should be nothing wrong with your new breakaway switch unless something really odd going on. It is just a simple switch, on or off, unless it is corroded which is not yet.
Hope this helps, and let us know how it goes.
John
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msmith1.wa
Tacoma, WA
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I am going to suggest you dig a little deeper into the plugs and actually take them apart and look at the inside for corrosion also.
I had a brake issue that presented the same as you described. All of the terminals on the trailer end looked fine externally, but inside the brake terminal was corroded to the point that it was two pieces that would sometimes make contact but mostly not.
Also don't go replacing parts until they are diagnosed to be bad.
Do you know someone that would let you connect your trailer to their truck to try to isolate if the issue is the truck or the trailer.
2003 Silverado 2500HD 4x4 8.1l
2016 Evergreen Amped 28FS
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Emolsee
Reno
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So, I have replaced the brake controller. For 5 hours of our trip today the brakes worked well and the brake controller was working properly… Then… the last hour of the trip today the controller flashed a code telling us that it thought the trailer brakes had a short… Ugh. I thought we had it with the new controller, and that was the longest the brakes have worked in a while… but I guess I still haven’t got this one figured out.
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JBarca
Radnor, Ohio, USA
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Since you changed the controller, you may have a real short.
Possible places that may create an actual short in the brake power line.
In the truck:
Check all wires from the controller to the 7-wire receptacle on the back of the truck. Blue is a color often used for the brake hot wire; confirm that it is your color in the harness and trace the harness from the controller to the actual pin in the 7-wire receptacle. If the insulation is skinned, it can touch the frame, which is a short to the controller.
On the trailer:
Is your 7-wire plug an add-on plug to the end of the cable, or is it all one molded cable and plug? If it is an add-on plug, it can be possible a strand of wire in the plug can touch another terminal from a bad wiring job. You can take them apart and check. If it is an all-molded cable and plug, this issue does not normally happen.
I'm not sure about your camper, but most newer campers have a junction box where the 7-wire cable enters and splits into camper DOT lights and the camper brake wiring. They have to connect to the camper blue brake wire in the 7-wire cable; that splice may have a problem.
Trace the camper blue brake wire out of the box all the way to the axle area, and look for skinned insulation.
Inside the brake itself (you must pull the drum to see inside), the magnet coil leads have small clips holding the wire to the magnet arm. Those clips have creaked or were not right from day 1, and the magnet wire gets skinned and can short to the ground. I have seen this; it is not common, but it does happen.
The coil comes loose from the magnet arm due to the clip breaking and gets ground up sideways over time. If the coil wires are exposed, that can be short. When this happens, the magnet is shot, and the magnet arm can also be bad. I have seen this too.
Then there is the worn insulation on the hot wire inside the axle tube. This is a classic failure mode. This is hard to test unless the hot wire touches the tube just right to find on an ohm check. And the only way to test the wire is to unhook the coils so you can test only the wire and hope it is touching so you can find it. When I find this problem or suspect it, I give up using the wire in the axle tube and run new wires outside it. Then you can pull the wire out of the tube and see the skinned insulation exposing it or close to it. There are a few ways to run the wire, but if you attach it to the tube, pick the back side so that the wire does not get beat up if you run over weeds or brush by accident. You can also run the wire attached to the bottom of the camper to cross over.
You are in the process of elimination at this point. All the checks above, except pulling the drums and the wire in the tube, are not that hard to do. Not sure if you are equipped to pull the drums; a sticky at the top of the towing forum will help show what you will be up against and how to do annual brake and bearing service.
Whenever I do a trailer brake or bearing maintenance pulling the brake drum, the odds are favorable that you might find a surprise inside. Nothing shocks me anymore about what one can find wrong inside; these brakes are not robust like the older auto drum brakes.
And while you have the camper up on jack stands of the block with the wheels off, assuming your camper has leaf springs, check the suspension; the nylon bushings that come standard in the spring eyes on many campers can be worn through between 8,000 to 10,000 miles on some or all of them. The equalizer center pin wears the fastest as the movement is more. When that bushing goes out, it starts wearing the casting; the whole equalizer starts to wobble and accelerates the shackle plates and pins wearing from spinning as the serrations on the heads of the pins are worn out. Another classic trailer failure is broken shackle plates from excess wear on the pins; once they start spinning due to the serrations being worn off that started from the wobbling equalizer, they start elongating a slot in the shackle plate which, in time, cracks the end of the plate off. Then the spring flies up into the fender well, leaving you stranded.
Hope this helps, and let us know how it goes.
John
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