Prevost developing an electric coach.

[Reisender]

Interesting read.

https://sustainablebiz.ca/volvos-prevost-developing-electric-coaches-in-ev-push

[BB_TX]

rjstractor wrote:
Do these inductive charge pads exist, or is this just a concept?

Here is one in service 5 years and proven to work well.

https://waveipt.com/battery-electric-bus-reach-wireless-charging-milestone/

[valhalla360]

rjstractor wrote:
Do these inductive charge pads exist, or is this just a concept?

They do exist. It's the exact same technology as wireless phone chargers just scaled up.

The problem is they are expensive and waste a lot of energy. The efficiency is heavily proportional to how close you can get to the pad. A phone charging array can be placed within millimeters. A bus is likely going to be a foot or more away unless you add a complicated system that extends/retracts.

Plus you have to make sure the bus can stop directly over the pad. Having ridden lots of transit, it's not uncommon for busses to stop near but not directly in front of the bus stop. That won't work.

Also, you need time. A 30-60second stop isn't going to provide much charging. If you have a half hour or more at the end of a route, easier to install a plug in charging cord and have the driver plug in as soon as they stop for lunch.

If you want it without a cord...Basically better to run overhead catenary lines (1940's technology) with a small onboard battery bank. That's what we did on a light rail line in Detroit. There wasn't room under some low bridges, so there was a small onboard battery good for a couple miles and it would retract the pantograph just before the low bridges and run on battery until clear.

[valhalla360]

Thermoguy wrote:

Reisender wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:
Article isn't clear. The picture is a tour bus but the writeup implies transit bus.

Transit can work because with regenerative braking and rarely exceeding 40mph, efficiency is far better than a brick cruising at a steady 70mph.

No, savings from policing accidents is no where close to enough to justify free rides. Where you can justify is if you can avoid road widening and similar costs...but diesel busses do just as well at this.

Ok. But busses with tail pipes are being banned from more and more small towns and cities in Europe. People just don’t want tail pipes in their towns. We have see this first hand the hard way. :). . There is a market for tour busses without tail pipes.

The reason the electric bus is better than a diesel bus is that a bus stops a lot. An electric bus uses no energy when it is stopped, a diesel bus keeps running. In addition, diesel buses have to be taken out of service to fuel up, an electric bus does not. What they are doing is using inductive charging to charge the bus and keep it running. A typical bus route a bus has multiple locations where it has a planned stop for 15-30 minutes or maybe more, that is where they put inductive charge pads where the bus stops, this is where the bus recharges for the next part of the route. It is proving to be a great use of EV technology.

Exactly, a transit bus rarely goes over 45mph, so wind resistance is negligible. They spend upwards of 50% of the route time either stopped or braking (which activates the regenerative braking).

In theory, you can do inductive charging pads but they are very inefficient compared to plugging in and very expensive to install and maintain. With an average speed of maybe 20mph, a 200mile range will cover an 8hr shift with a decent margin for error. That's pretty reasonable for a transit bus. For a tour bus (which diesel pusher MHs are based on), daily drives of 300-600miles are pretty common, so it's the rare tour company that would be happy with a 250mile range.

As far as tailpipe emissions...that's mostly political showmanship. If you replace 40 modern passenger cars with modern emission systems with a 1960's vintage smog belching bus, the bus is still going to be far less polluting. The big difference is it's easy for the politicians to mandate transit bus specs...a lot harder to mandate personal vehicles because the population feels it directly in the wallet.

[rjstractor]

I did a quick read on them- the agency in Wenatchee has been using them for five years now. Very interesting that they are way ahead of Sound Transit, which to date still doesn't have any fully electric buses in service.

[Thermoguy]

rjstractor wrote:

Thermoguy wrote:
The reason the electric bus is better than a diesel bus is that a bus stops a lot. An electric bus uses no energy when it is stopped, a diesel bus keeps running. In addition, diesel buses have to be taken out of service to fuel up, an electric bus does not. What they are doing is using inductive charging to charge the bus and keep it running. A typical bus route a bus has multiple locations where it has a planned stop for 15-30 minutes or maybe more, that is where they put inductive charge pads where the bus stops, this is where the bus recharges for the next part of the route. It is proving to be a great use of EV technology.

Do these inductive charge pads exist, or is this just a concept?

These are in use now. I am aware of transit agencies and WA and OR currently using them. One is a rural transit agency in Wenatchee WA and they drive quite a ways between stops in Wenatchee and Leavenworth where they have these installed.

[Bruce_Brown]

For the short commuter type stuff they should work well.

[rjstractor]

Thermoguy wrote:
The reason the electric bus is better than a diesel bus is that a bus stops a lot. An electric bus uses no energy when it is stopped, a diesel bus keeps running. In addition, diesel buses have to be taken out of service to fuel up, an electric bus does not. What they are doing is using inductive charging to charge the bus and keep it running. A typical bus route a bus has multiple locations where it has a planned stop for 15-30 minutes or maybe more, that is where they put inductive charge pads where the bus stops, this is where the bus recharges for the next part of the route. It is proving to be a great use of EV technology.

Do these inductive charge pads exist, or is this just a concept?

[Thermoguy]

Reisender wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:
Article isn't clear. The picture is a tour bus but the writeup implies transit bus.

Transit can work because with regenerative braking and rarely exceeding 40mph, efficiency is far better than a brick cruising at a steady 70mph.

No, savings from policing accidents is no where close to enough to justify free rides. Where you can justify is if you can avoid road widening and similar costs...but diesel busses do just as well at this.

Ok. But busses with tail pipes are being banned from more and more small towns and cities in Europe. People just don’t want tail pipes in their towns. We have see this first hand the hard way. :). . There is a market for tour busses without tail pipes.

The reason the electric bus is better than a diesel bus is that a bus stops a lot. An electric bus uses no energy when it is stopped, a diesel bus keeps running. In addition, diesel buses have to be taken out of service to fuel up, an electric bus does not. What they are doing is using inductive charging to charge the bus and keep it running. A typical bus route a bus has multiple locations where it has a planned stop for 15-30 minutes or maybe more, that is where they put inductive charge pads where the bus stops, this is where the bus recharges for the next part of the route. It is proving to be a great use of EV technology.

[Reisender]

valhalla360 wrote:
Article isn't clear. The picture is a tour bus but the writeup implies transit bus.

Transit can work because with regenerative braking and rarely exceeding 40mph, efficiency is far better than a brick cruising at a steady 70mph.

No, savings from policing accidents is no where close to enough to justify free rides. Where you can justify is if you can avoid road widening and similar costs...but diesel busses do just as well at this.

Ok. But busses with tail pipes are being banned from more and more small towns and cities in Europe. People just don’t want tail pipes in their towns. We have see this first hand the hard way. :). . There is a market for tour busses without tail pipes.

[valhalla360]

Article isn't clear. The picture is a tour bus but the writeup implies transit bus.

Transit can work because with regenerative braking and rarely exceeding 40mph, efficiency is far better than a brick cruising at a steady 70mph.

No, savings from policing accidents is no where close to enough to justify free rides. Where you can justify is if you can avoid road widening and similar costs...but diesel busses do just as well at this.

[wa8yxm]

Clemson Area Transit (CAT) in South Carolina used some electric busses that are "Wireless" operationally.. there are charging stations (one is at the Seneca END OF LINE and I assume one at the other end) where the bus pulls in for a quick charge before it starts the next half of it's run."

OH and after doing considerable research (Clemson University is a good school) They set the fare on the busses to $0.00 to encourage ridership..

Seems that the more folks ride the bus.. the less crash their cars. and the reduced policing costs pays for the bus service. NEAT.

For more info.. Google them.

[rjstractor]

Mass transit buses are one application that really makes sense for electric vehicles- Metro Transit has been using electric buses in downtown Seattle for longer than most of us have been alive. Of course, these are trolley buses that get their power from overhead lines, not battery power.

[BB_TX]

Although someone will turn a few into RVs, those are aimed at the mast transit market.

[TechWriter]

Bruce Brown wrote:

A 250 mile advertised range, most manufacturers say run between 20-80% for best battery life so basically a 150 mile range. So our 1 day drive to the races now will turn into a 4 day trip.

It looks like these Prevost electrics are intended for mass transit, not cross country, like Nova Bus.