CAT scale numbers hitched and not

[halcareric]

Hello all. First time weighing our rig after almost a year full time

2022 Ford F-350 Crew Cab 8' bed Dully Diesel 2x4 XLT
2022 Durango Gold 391RKF 42.5 foot 5th Wheel

Full tank of fuel (48 gallons). NO fresh water, grey tanks empty, black tank had maybe 15 gallons. Fully loaded like we normally do.

Truck had my wife and I, plus 3 dogs in crates in back seat. Portable Generator, and portable waste tank with 3 dog X-pens in bed. 2 bikes and an aluminum ladder on back of trailer.
--------------------------------
CAT Scale numbers. Truck and Trailer
Steer Axle: 4,800
Drive Axle: 7,260
Trailer Axles: 13,400

Total GVW: 25,460
------------------------------------------------

CAT Scale numbers: Truck ONLY

Steer Axle: 4,760 (diff of 40 lbs)
Drive Axle: 3,960 (diff of 3,300 lbs)

Gross: 8,720

If I did this correctly, this is my trailer gross and pin weight. Pin takes some of the weight off the trailer axles.

GROSS: 25,460 - 8,720 = 16,740 for trailer gross weight

Gross of Trailer 16,740
Trailer Axles only - 13,400
------------
Pin weight = 3,340


Truck specs as taken off door sticker:
GARW Front : 5,300
GAWR Rear : 9,900

GVWR: 14,000
---------------------------------------------
KZ Spec Tag

STOCK Trailer Gross Weight Rating: 16,000
STOCK Cargo Max: 2,850
STOCK Dry Hitch Weight: 2,570

Of course, KZ doesn't weigh each unit getting ready for shipment nor does the dealer after adding his or customers options.
I have no idea what the stock axles weigh nor do I know what the new axles weigh, same for the king pin.

I have the Flex Air pin box with a rating of 16,000 lbs
5th wheel Reese Hitch with a rating of 25,000 lbs


---------------------------------------------

We have a "Flex-Air" pin box
MORryde 7,000 lb independent suspension with disk brakes. These axles are heavier than the standard


Are we good, or bad?

[halcareric]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

halcareric wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:
Shoot, looks good to me. Similar to what I'm pulling with my RAM.

Did the door sticker actually show 15,200 lbs. for the GVWR?

Opps, nope.. it's 14,000 GVWR for the truck. I'll edit my post

THAT number is meaningless except for keeping the truck in Class 3, licensing and insurance purposes.

What hitch are you running? I am betting it's NOT full forward as it should be. You should be adding more than 40# with that pin weight.

Reese M5 25,000. I'll have to look closer but I think I am as far as can go. That sort of change has to wait till we're back to our home base in TN next month.

[fj12ryder]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
"Looks like the trailer is 740lb overweight.

Doesn't mean an instant failure but don't be shocked if it does."


Mine should be in a pile of rubble with nearly 7 years of full time use. My RV is rated at 21k and I am only 24k.

Shoot, you make my 800 lbs. overweight, laughable. 🙂

[Cummins12V98]

"Looks like the trailer is 740lb overweight.

Doesn't mean an instant failure but don't be shocked if it does."


Mine should be in a pile of rubble with nearly 7 years of full time use. My RV is rated at 21k and I am only 24k.

[Cummins12V98]

halcareric wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:
Shoot, looks good to me. Similar to what I'm pulling with my RAM.

Did the door sticker actually show 15,200 lbs. for the GVWR?

Opps, nope.. it's 14,000 GVWR for the truck. I'll edit my post

THAT number is meaningless except for keeping the truck in Class 3, licensing and insurance purposes.

What hitch are you running? I am betting it's NOT full forward as it should be. You should be adding more than 40# with that pin weight.

[Lantley]

I think the take away from all of this is that you are at your limits. I don't think the sky is falling. But you do need to be mindful of what you carry vs. having 1000# more cargo capacity available. Be sure to check tire pressure regularly and keep everything aired up to the max.
You also need to consider you have more available cargo capacity in the truck vs. the trailer

[rhagfo]

halcareric wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

halcareric wrote:
Hello all. First time weighing our rig after almost a year full time

2022 Ford F-350 Crew Cab 8' bed Dully Diesel 2x4 XLT
2022 Durango Gold 391RKF 42.5 foot 5th Wheel

Full tank of fuel (48 gallons). NO fresh water, grey tanks empty, black tank had maybe 15 gallons. Fully loaded like we normally do.

Truck had my wife and I, plus 3 dogs in crates in back seat. Portable Generator, and portable waste tank with 3 dog X-pens in bed. 2 bikes and an aluminum ladder on back of trailer.
--------------------------------
CAT Scale numbers. Truck and Trailer
Steer Axle: 4,800
Drive Axle: 7,260
Trailer Axles: 13,400

Total GVW: 25,460
------------------------------------------------

CAT Scale numbers: Truck ONLY

Steer Axle: 4,760 (diff of 40 lbs)
Drive Axle: 3,960 (diff of 3,300 lbs)

Gross: 8,720

If I did this correctly, this is my trailer gross and pin weight. Pin takes some of the weight off the trailer axles.

GROSS: 25,460 - 8,720 = 16,740 for trailer gross weight

Gross of Trailer 16,740
Trailer Axles only - 13,400
------------
Pin weight = 3,340


Truck specs as taken off door sticker:
GARW Front : 5,300
GAWR Rear : 9,900

GVWR: 14,000
---------------------------------------------
KZ Spec Tag

STOCK Trailer Gross Weight Rating: 16,000
STOCK Cargo Max: 2,850
STOCK Dry Hitch Weight: 2,570

Of course, KZ doesn't weigh each unit getting ready for shipment nor does the dealer after adding his or customers options.
I have no idea what the stock axles weigh nor do I know what the new axles weigh, same for the king pin.

I have the Flex Air pin box with a rating of 16,000 lbs
5th wheel Reese Hitch with a rating of 25,000 lbs


---------------------------------------------

We have a "Flex-Air" pin box
MORryde 7,000 lb independent suspension with disk brakes. These axles are heavier than the standard


Are we good, or bad?

Looks like the trailer is 740lb overweight.

Doesn't mean an instant failure but don't be shocked if it does.

I've been told that part of a 5th wheel's weight sits on the Truck. Reason to subtract part of the trailers axle weight numbers. So, if my numbers are now correct, 16,740 minus axle weight of 13,400 is what's sitting on the truck, which is 3340. If I could get away with it, I'd drop the trailer on the scales by it self but you can't do that at a CAT scale

Well your math is correct and based on specs you are 740# over the trailers GVWR. Likely pretty hard to lighten the trailer 740#, listed cargo capacity of 2,850# and 740# over gross total 3,590# of stuff. Putting it another way you are about 21% over your cargo capacity.

[halcareric]

fj12ryder wrote:
Like I said, very similar to my setup. I pull with a 2018 Ram Dually Cummins, 14,000 lb. GVWR, with a payload around 5,900 lbs. The 5th wheel is a 2019 Momentum 351M, GVWR is 16,800 lbs., and the trailer weighs 17,400 lbs. I don't worry about it, and just motor on down the road. I very much doubt it will self-destruct. 🙂

FWIW, I don't know about Tennessee, but some states require a special driver's license if your total weight is over 25,001 lbs.

Way before we looked into a 5th wheel vs a MH (which we've had), I looked up the license deal. For non commercial RV's, unless you LIVE in that state that requires a class B type endorsement for 5th wheel RV's, you don't need one.

Tennessee does not require one. They can't force someone from another state, to have a permit to drive in their state.

[Campinghoss]

(I don't go over 65, and if the roads are really crappy, 50 to 55. I will say tho, since we put on the Morryde independent suspension and disk brakes, it truly helps the ride comfort and the flex air pin box also.)

We run heavy as well. After spring hanger breakage and leaf springs giving up we are heading to Elkhart for IS and disc brakes in October. Personally any trailer 40 feet or longer should come with IS. All of our suspension problems have happened within 3 miles of our home so I am not pressing my luck any longer. And no, we are not overweight though close to our max. Stock suspension are the bare minimum rating in my opinion.

[bucky]

It's a good thing you got around to it. Knowledge is power.
As you are heavy already I wouldn't put very much fresh in while towing. maybe 15 gallons for lav dooty;) on the road.

[valhalla360]

halcareric wrote:
I've been told that part of a 5th wheel's weight sits on the Truck. Reason to subtract part of the trailers axle weight numbers. So, if my numbers are now correct, 16,740 minus axle weight of 13,400 is what's sitting on the truck, which is 3340. If I could get away with it, I'd drop the trailer on the scales by it self but you can't do that at a CAT scale

Nope. Trailer GVWR includes the hitch weight.

It's fairly common to see the GVWR exceed the axle ratings, particularly for 5ers where 20-25% is on the pin. For example, our current trailer has a pair of 3500lb axles (7000lb total assuming equal weight distribution across the axles) yet the GVWR is 7686.

Based the CAT numbers, we have a hitch weight of 900lb with 6000lb on the axles (6900lb actual vs 7686TGVWR).

No need to drop the trailer on the scales by itself. By taking two weights (truck & trailer vs truck by itself), you already calculated the actual trailer weight....16,740lb per your calculations. Weighing the trailer by itself will come out the same.

As previously mentioned, not suggesting, immediate failure but yes, you are pushing beyond the manufacturer numbers. So if it does fail, you can't really blame the manufacturer.

[fj12ryder]

Like I said, very similar to my setup. I pull with a 2018 Ram Dually Cummins, 14,000 lb. GVWR, with a payload around 5,900 lbs. The 5th wheel is a 2019 Momentum 351M, GVWR is 16,800 lbs., and the trailer weighs 17,400 lbs. I don't worry about it, and just motor on down the road. I very much doubt it will self-destruct. 🙂

FWIW, I don't know about Tennessee, but some states require a special driver's license if your total weight is over 25,001 lbs.

[halcareric]

I don't go over 65, and if the roads are really crappy, 50 to 55. I will say tho, since we put on the Morryde independent suspension and disk brakes, it truly helps the ride comfort and the flex air pin box also.

[dieseltruckdriv]

halcareric wrote:
SNIP
BUT, now to me, it looks like the pin weight is over what it should, meaning I have too much cargo in the pass through yes?

I guess I don't see a problem with your setup. You are well under your rear GAWR. Another number to look at would be your GCVWR, it should be on the tag with your axle weight ratings.

If it's more than 25,500 I would be OK with it, but your comfort level is up to you to decide.

When I first started truck driving (real trucks), an old timer told me to always drive 5 mph slower than where you feel comfortable. That advice hasn't failed me yet.

[halcareric]

I've been told that part of a 5th wheel's weight sits on the Truck. Reason to subtract part of the trailers axle weight numbers. So, if my numbers are now correct, 16,740 minus axle weight of 13,400 is what's sitting on the truck, which is 3340. If I could get away with it, I'd drop the trailer on the scales by it self but you can't do that at a CAT scale