valhalla360
No paticular place.
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adamis wrote:JimK-NY wrote:Have you checked the CCC for your truck? If not you are likely to need more than just stiffening the frame and that 4WD conversion is just going to add more weight.
It took me a while to find it but Max Payload for the Crew Cab Dually Long Bed 2x4 appears to be 5355lbs and the 4x4 is 4910lbs. My camper according to the tag on it weighed 2906 and that included 50 gallons of water and 20lbs of propane. Going to a 4x4 conversion that would leave me 2000lbs for people and gear which would be way more than we would ever carry.
Being frank, the 4x4 conversion is something on the nice to do / want to do but not the need to do chart. Finding a good shop and a reasonable price may be the death of the idea. This goes for the frame boxing as well.
Getting back to the porpoising... I think the most realistic plan forward is to do what I can to move the camper for the extra 2". It may not help a ton but it is better than nothing.
Payload rating or truck camper rating?
They usually provide a separate number for truck campers and it's usually lower.
Plus what happened to the idea you were at 5000lb and suddenly you have 2000lb left over?
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Marcela
Kansas
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The payload of a truck and the camper weight rating are going to be two different things, as I have seen on an early 2000' Ford towing brochure and on my 2017 GMC it has the camper rating in the dash box.
I feel like I'm pissing in the wind with my first post.
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mkirsch
Rochester, NY
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Flame flexing to that degree is NOT okay in any sense. If not addressed, eventually you are going to find yourself sitting on the side of the road in a situation similar to that fellow on Facebook stuck in Mexico with a broken frame.
It's pretty clear that you're set in the course of action you're going to take. You would be wise to take action sooner rather than later.
Just know that, it is not a common solution so you're not likely to find anyone to give you the affirmation you seek. You are venturing into uncharted territory. Frames are commonly boxed for offroad vehicles and other custom applications so it's not unheard of, just not specifically for what you're doing. For sure, I don't think it will hurt. It just might not help.
Make sure you tell us how it works out for you.
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mellow
Salisbury, MD
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As already mentioned, the biggest thing for me fixing the front to back rocking was installing Rancho 9000's on front and back, I keep the front set to 5 and the back set to 9 with the camper on. I have a local concrete highway that would kill me before I put them on, the spacing of the dips was just right that would would have you feeling like you were in the ocean.
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HMS Beagle
Napa, California
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You can still download the bodybuilders manual for the 1999, though I'd suggest instead the 2000 year model as it is far more complete.
https://fordbbas.com/publications
It lists a 4x2 DRW 6.8L V8 crew cab for California at 4610 max payload. It does not list the 7.3L, but in the chassis cab for example, that takes about 500 lbs off of the payload vs. the 6.8L, so probably 4100 lbs.
You do have to weight the Bigfoot to see what it really is - I've owned three, every one has been substantially over the sticker weight. In fact every RV I've ever owned has been over the sticker weight.
Bigfoot 10.4E, 2015 F350 6.7L DRW 2WD, Autoflex Ultra Air Ride rear suspension, Hellwig Bigwig sway bars front and rear
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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Still not a chance in heck that that truck has anywhere near a 5klb payload rating. Irrelevant of the reduced TC weight ratings that the mfg provides.
What’s the door sticker say? I’d be very surprised if it didn’t say 11,200lbs gvwr.
I understand you want to make this work but ignoring the obvious like actual gvwr and questions/suggestions about your suspension (You’ve only said you replaced the shocks. Which is only a small part of the equation) shows that you’re trying too hard to make this work by ignoring the factors you choose to not consider.
So until you post a pic of the gvwr proving that your truck is somehow special compared to the other 100,000s that went down the line those few years, you’re just kidding yourself.
And I’ll eat my words as well.
The other difficulty is sure some of these major mods are possible, however you’ll be hard pressed to find a shop that will take on the liability of any major structural conversions. And those that do will charge about as much as buying your whole truck again. Maybe more.
The only recent comparison for frame mods is Mega cab long bed conversions. And years ago those were about $5k byob (bring your own bed). What you’re proposing is of similar risk and complexity minus the frame stretch.
While my responses and others seem harsh, or condescending it’s your truck and you asked the question. My intention is never to mislead which is consistent here as well.
Good luck.
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adamis
Northern California
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valhalla360 wrote:Plus what happened to the idea you were at 5000lb and suddenly you have 2000lb left over?
In my original post, I was going off what I recalled on my head. In the last post, I was going off the facts based on what I was able to look up. I have weighed the camper before and my recollection is it was close to 4000lbs but I don't recall if that was loaded or empty. I'm sure it was at least partially loaded, at least with bedding and kitchen supplies. I probably should weigh it again and write it down somewhere.
I did not realize the frame was pretty much the same all the way up to 2016. The payload capacity for the 2016 according to Ford was 6460 pounds for a Dually, Long Bed Crew Cab 4x4 and 6870 pounds for a 4x2 configuration.
https://cdn.dealereprocess.org/cdn/brochures/ford/2016-superduty.pdf
That contrasts with the 1999 with Max Payload for the Crew Cab Dually Long Bed 2x4 appears to be 5355lbs and the 4x4 is 4910lbs.
https://www.xr793.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/1999-Ford-Super-Duty.pdf
So, with basically the same frame, how did they manage to get another 1500+ pounds of payload capacity out of it? I'm sure there were some upgrades like additional cross members and such but does that account for all of the increased payload capacity.
Every truck frame flexes to some degree. If you don't think your frame is flexing, you probably just aren't looking for it hard enough. The porpoising I am describing is noticeable only on rough roads or rough transitions in the pavement. It isn't happening all of the time nor is it a problem to drive it as is. I did see the story about the grossly overloaded truck that broke the frame in half in Mexico and yes, it did get me to wondering if one could strengthen the frame but no, I'm not concerned the same will happen to me. I'm confident I am within the capability of my truck.
It does appear that I am in uncharted territory with thinking about stiffening the frame.
1999 F350 Dually with 7.3 Diesel
2000 Bigfoot 10.6 Camper
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mkirsch
Rochester, NY
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"Basically the same" is not the same as "the same" though. Just because the frames vaguely resemble each other, or if they even match up bolt hole for bolt hole, does not mean that the later frame hasn't been improved. Different metallurgy, slightly thicker steel, just a couple of examples of how they could sneak in a little extra strength over the years.
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adamis
Northern California
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Grit dog wrote:Still not a chance in heck that that truck has anywhere near a 5klb payload rating. Irrelevant of the reduced TC weight ratings that the mfg provides.
What’s the door sticker say? I’d be very surprised if it didn’t say 11,200lbs gvwr.
I understand you want to make this work but ignoring the obvious like actual gvwr and questions/suggestions about your suspension (You’ve only said you replaced the shocks. Which is only a small part of the equation) shows that you’re trying too hard to make this work by ignoring the factors you choose to not consider.
So until you post a pic of the gvwr proving that your truck is somehow special compared to the other 100,000s that went down the line those few years, you’re just kidding yourself.
And I’ll eat my words as well.
The other difficulty is sure some of these major mods are possible, however you’ll be hard pressed to find a shop that will take on the liability of any major structural conversions. And those that do will charge about as much as buying your whole truck again. Maybe more.
The only recent comparison for frame mods is Mega cab long bed conversions. And years ago those were about $5k byob (bring your own bed). What you’re proposing is of similar risk and complexity minus the frame stretch.
While my responses and others seem harsh, or condescending it’s your truck and you asked the question. My intention is never to mislead which is consistent here as well.
Good luck.
Gritdog your post is exactly what you said it was, harsh and condescending. I'm not offended by it but I question why you feel it is necessary to the point of stating it yourself.
Moving along, you aren't answering my original question. The only question mark in my first post is for this sentence:
"Has anyone else gone through this or found a way to handle excessive porpoising on older C channel frame trucks?"
I assume your point is, your camper is too heavy for the truck. If you want to go by stickers on the door, that is fine, you probably are correct depending on how much gear is loaded. But I didn't ask about the sticker on the door nor was I asking if the camper weighed too much. I asked if anyone has ever gone through the effort to stiffen the frame.
From the answers so far, it appears the answer is no. I appreciate everyone's response as it tells me it is uncharted territory and if I do proceed, I should proceed with definite caution.
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mbloof
Beaverton, OR
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Interesting abet comical thread - frame flexing.
If one were to do some Youtube searches you'll likely find videos where trucks from "the big three" are all driven on/over grossly uneven terrain and the frame flexing/twisting (or NOT!) of each OEM was shown and documented.
Generally speaking some OEM's are worse than others and some years are better (and worse!) than others.
IMHO: when it comes to trucks it is just a fact of life.
I currently have a 2017 Ford and if I look and watch for it, I can see my cabover nose bouncing around. (similar to what it was doing on my 1997 Ford)
Other then having a platform under my camper to raise it up far enough to where the cab of the truck (and the crud Ford stuck on top of it) and the underside of my cabover has +2in clearance (to account for bounce/flex) I don't really care.
- Mark0.
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