nickthehunter
Midwest
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Reisender wrote: The choice of gas cars will be getting pretty slim by then. 3/4 and 1 ton trucks (and bigger) are not affected by any sales restriction so people will still be able to buy those. That and Toyotas I suppose, and Mazda if they are still around.
If they don’t install charging infrastructure tourism will be limited from outside the state. In 2035 gas stations will still be common thru out North America but they will be on the decline. So when people from there leave the state fueling will slowly become more of an issue.
Maybe in Canada, I wouldn't bet on it in the US.
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Groover
Pulaski, TN
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Joined: 10/17/2007
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RambleOnNW wrote:Groover wrote:pianotuna wrote:Grover I'm all for nuclear power, if you can tell me how and where to safely store the waste. Until that happens I'm anti nuclear.
I believe that there are plenty of good options for storage.
That is pretty naive.
Fact is no country anywhere in the world has a long term disposal site In operation.
No one wants high-level nuclear waste in their backyard.
So nuclear waste sits at open and closed nuclear plants, a huge security risk.
Look at the radioactive half lives of the high-level waste components:
Technetium-99 211,000 years
Tin-126 230,000 years
Selenium-79 327,000 years
Zirconium-93. 1,530,000 years
Caesium-135. 2,300,000 years
Palladium-107. 6,500,000 years
Iodine-129. 15,700,000 years
If we continue on our current path how long do we have before climate change kills us all? The climate change activists seem to think it will be before the natural deaths of my children. How do you compare potential deaths 15,000 years out to sure deaths within the lifetimes of your children? Or, are you saying that climate change isn't really all that bad?
Keep in mind that we probably only need to buy another 50 years or so before fusion is viable and fusion doesn't make those types of waste.
I still believe that if we can get past the NIMBY attitude there are solutions to nuclear storage that will either outlast our civilization or until even better solutions will be found.
I know what the problems are, I want to hear solutions.
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Reisender
NA
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nickthehunter wrote:Reisender wrote: The choice of gas cars will be getting pretty slim by then. 3/4 and 1 ton trucks (and bigger) are not affected by any sales restriction so people will still be able to buy those. That and Toyotas I suppose, and Mazda if they are still around.
If they don’t install charging infrastructure tourism will be limited from outside the state. In 2035 gas stations will still be common thru out North America but they will be on the decline. So when people from there leave the state fueling will slowly become more of an issue.
Maybe in Canada, I wouldn't bet on it in the US.
Hi Nick. Bet on what aspect?
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Latner
Indiana
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Joined: 08/06/2006
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Reisender wrote:Michelle.S wrote:That's OK, just read that Montana plans to BAN EV sales by 2035
Interesting. The choice of gas cars will be getting pretty slim by then. 3/4 and 1 ton trucks (and bigger) are not affected by any sales restriction so people will still be able to buy those. That and Toyotas I suppose, and Mazda if they are still around.
If they don’t install charging infrastructure tourism will be limited from outside the state. In 2035 gas stations will still be common thru out North America but they will be on the decline. So when people from there leave the state fueling will slowly become more of an issue.
It will be kinda cool though. Visiting there in 30 years will be like going to Cuba and seeing all the cool old cars. Nice. ![[emoticon]](https://forums.motorhome.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
Even after 2035, you'll still be able to buy gas cars from other states and register them in Cali. I should have added that Cali is the only state all in on 2035.
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Reisender
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Latner wrote:Reisender wrote:Michelle.S wrote:That's OK, just read that Montana plans to BAN EV sales by 2035
Interesting. The choice of gas cars will be getting pretty slim by then. 3/4 and 1 ton trucks (and bigger) are not affected by any sales restriction so people will still be able to buy those. That and Toyotas I suppose, and Mazda if they are still around.
If they don’t install charging infrastructure tourism will be limited from outside the state. In 2035 gas stations will still be common thru out North America but they will be on the decline. So when people from there leave the state fueling will slowly become more of an issue.
It will be kinda cool though. Visiting there in 30 years will be like going to Cuba and seeing all the cool old cars. Nice.
Even after 2035, you'll still be able to buy gas cars from other states and register them in Cali. I should have added that Cali is the only state all in on 2035.
Yah could be. I’m not up on American legislation. That wouldn’t work here if the model was 2035 or later. But yah, that would work if it was 2034 or older. But anything over 8599 pound GVWR (or metric equivalent) has no restriction or end date. So as long as the SUV or Truck is over that there is no restriction. At least in this province. I’m not sure about our federal plans.
Like I say though, I doubt there will be many gas cars available by then.
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RambleOnNW
Pacific Northwest
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Joined: 08/06/2010
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Groover wrote:RambleOnNW wrote:Groover wrote:pianotuna wrote:Grover I'm all for nuclear power, if you can tell me how and where to safely store the waste. Until that happens I'm anti nuclear.
I believe that there are plenty of good options for storage.
That is pretty naive.
Fact is no country anywhere in the world has a long term disposal site In operation.
No one wants high-level nuclear waste in their backyard.
So nuclear waste sits at open and closed nuclear plants, a huge security risk.
Look at the radioactive half lives of the high-level waste components:
Technetium-99 211,000 years
Tin-126 230,000 years
Selenium-79 327,000 years
Zirconium-93. 1,530,000 years
Caesium-135. 2,300,000 years
Palladium-107. 6,500,000 years
Iodine-129. 15,700,000 years
If we continue on our current path how long do we have before climate change kills us all? The climate change activists seem to think it will be before the natural deaths of my children. How do you compare potential deaths 15,000 years out to sure deaths within the lifetimes of your children? Or, are you saying that climate change isn't really all that bad?
Keep in mind that we probably only need to buy another 50 years or so before fusion is viable and fusion doesn't make those types of waste.
I still believe that if we can get past the NIMBY attitude there are solutions to nuclear storage that will either outlast our civilization or until even better solutions will be found.
I know what the problems are, I want to hear solutions.
Nuclear is a dead end. However states rights and all that so if the SE US wants to add to their nuclear plant collection and dispose of the waste there feel free.
Solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, and green hydrogen can cover all the needs of the US. A 100 x 100 mile solar array and converted to green hydrogen and piped to power plants around the US can produce all the electricity needed. Use your engineer math skills, I did.
A 100 x 200 mile solar array can replace all oil usage in the US. Green hydrogen + CO2 can produce any fossil fuel. Green hydrogen can be stored in salt domes just like oil & gas.
In fact in Delta Utah they are working on just that, a green hydrogen plant with storage in 2 salt dome caverns, room for 300 GWh of storage. And room for 98 more caverns. Compared to the US installed base of utility lithium batteries of 2 GWh. Delta plant will run a mix of natural gas and hydrogen initially in their power plant, going to 100% hydrogen by 2045.
SoCalGas is working on mixing hydrogen with natural gas then extracting pure hydrogen from the mix with a membrane. That would make for easy hydrogen distribution to gas stations. SoCalGas is also going to test a hydrogen fuel cell F-550 from Ford.
Check out this Hyundai Nexo hydrogen with 380 mile range and 5 minute 100% refueling:
![[image]](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP._XF3OuboQWmwM2OfCmkYwwHaD8%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=f7ae26b9422645ca34922cf7e463d5228f51635660096ed097ecb6f767099a11&ipo=images)
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map40
Florida
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Joined: 01/15/2005
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Let's get back to the thread before this goes political and the moderators end up having to close this out. No state will ban EVs and although EVs will grow in the market, they won't displace ICEs.
As far as Hydrogen, the chasllenges are even worse than electricity for massive applications. Although it is fast to transfer to the vehicle, the space required to accomodate a decent amount in a vehicle is significantly more than gas or batteries and the distribution network is non-existent (keep in mind, for EVs the distribution network was already built). Production of hydrogen continues to be a problem unles the latest new technologies work out (like direct-from-sea hydrogen mining).
Hydrogen is today where EVs were 15-20 years ago, after Honda and GM produced their first electric cars. The technology has great potential, but there won't be real market applications for at least a decade.
Alfa SeeYa
Life rocks when your home rolls
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map40
Florida
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There is one technology that has not being brought up yet: Na Batteries. Sodium batteries are being produced by CATL (largest battery manufacturer in the world) and although they are in the first generation, the second generation is ready for production. We will see EVs with those in 2 years from now, but the batteries have already been proved by several car manufacturers (including Tesla, Ford and BMW). They will tolerate lower temperatures, they will have similar lifespan, they will have higher charging speed and they will cost 1/5 of the current cost. With this, there is a new approach that could be comming along with Sodium: Battery module replacements. You can stop at a gas station and they will take your modules out and put charged modules.
So far this approach did not work because the battery was more expensive than the car, but with the new technology this would change the path of development of EVs. This could also mean EVs with longer range and higher capacity (because recharging will be as easy as refueling gasoline or diesel).
This is another approach that will take anoter 5-6 years to arrive.
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RambleOnNW
Pacific Northwest
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Joined: 08/06/2010
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map40 wrote:Let's get back to the thread before this goes political and the moderators end up having to close this out. No state will ban EVs and although EVs will grow in the market, they won't displace ICEs.
As far as Hydrogen, the chasllenges are even worse than electricity for massive applications. Although it is fast to transfer to the vehicle, the space required to accomodate a decent amount in a vehicle is significantly more than gas or batteries and the distribution network is non-existent (keep in mind, for EVs the distribution network was already built). Production of hydrogen continues to be a problem unles the latest new technologies work out (like direct-from-sea hydrogen mining).
Hydrogen is today where EVs were 15-20 years ago, after Honda and GM produced their first electric cars. The technology has great potential, but there won't be real market applications for at least a decade.
First of all, the phase-out of ICE vehicles in some states by 2035 still allows for 20% plug-in hybrid ICE vehicles. Also hydrogen vehicles are EVs, Fuel-cell-electric-vehicles (FCEV) and they are included in the EV 2035 mandates.
Hydrogen is far more energy dense than lithium batteries. The Nexo in the previous article has a capacity of 14 lbs of hydrogen which has a gross energy of 250 kWh which allows for a 380 mile range.
The US is planning to fund up to 8 hydrogen hubs. Actually hydrogen is being distributed via liquid hydrogen tankers today and can be used to distribute the hydrogen from the hubs.
US will have to race to keep up with the progress of the rest of the world. Europe is phasing out diesel semis by 2040. Green hydrogen produced fossil-free steel was shipped to Volvo 18 months ago link. Denmark for example is planning a 1 GW, 400 ton per day green hydrogen facility that will fuel 1/3 of their semi trucks. You can view the design here.. Australia goes all-in on green hydrogen link.
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Reisender
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RambleOnNW wrote:map40 wrote:Let's get back to the thread before this goes political and the moderators end up having to close this out. No state will ban EVs and although EVs will grow in the market, they won't displace ICEs.
As far as Hydrogen, the chasllenges are even worse than electricity for massive applications. Although it is fast to transfer to the vehicle, the space required to accomodate a decent amount in a vehicle is significantly more than gas or batteries and the distribution network is non-existent (keep in mind, for EVs the distribution network was already built). Production of hydrogen continues to be a problem unles the latest new technologies work out (like direct-from-sea hydrogen mining).
Hydrogen is today where EVs were 15-20 years ago, after Honda and GM produced their first electric cars. The technology has great potential, but there won't be real market applications for at least a decade.
First of all, the phase-out of ICE vehicles in some states by 2035 still allows for 20% plug-in hybrid ICE vehicles. Also hydrogen vehicles are EVs, Fuel-cell-electric-vehicles (FCEV) and they are included in the EV 2035 mandates.
Hydrogen is far more energy dense than lithium batteries. The Nexo in the previous article has a capacity of 14 lbs of hydrogen which has a gross energy of 250 kWh which allows for a 380 mile range.
The US is planning to fund up to 8 hydrogen hubs. Actually hydrogen is being distributed via liquid hydrogen tankers today and can be used to distribute the hydrogen from the hubs.
US will have to race to keep up with the progress of the rest of the world. Europe is phasing out diesel semis by 2040. Green hydrogen produced fossil-free steel was shipped to Volvo 18 months ago link. Denmark for example is planning a 1 GW, 400 ton per day green hydrogen facility that will fuel 1/3 of their semi trucks. You can view the design here.. Australia goes all-in on green hydrogen link.
Yep. Europe will be on the cutting edge of this out of necessity. For smaller vehicles electric is nice because you can fuel at home in your driveway. And it’s relatively cheap compared to gas. Hydrogen is pricey. And the amount of solar homes is growing really fast so much of your fuel comes from your roof.
It will be fun to watch.
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