Huntindog
Phoenix AZ
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RambleOnNW wrote:free radical wrote:RambleOnNW wrote:Lantley wrote:You Chicken little men are too much. A Tesla semi breaks down and you want to scrap the entire program. I wonder if Kenworth had this bashing when there first truck broke down!
Funny thing is we have large wrecker companies, trucker down website and all kinds of resources dedicated to repairing over the road semi trucks.
Why?............Because they break down! They all breakdown. I don't think the Tesla Semi truck sky is falling just yet!
No worries, Musks semi will be put out of business by a real semi truck company, Freightliner, with a 600 mile range hydrogen powered semi and 2 actual front seats for team driving.
https://www.kezi.com/news/zero-emissions........b87379c-96a0-11ed-b2f2-f7a9f237acad.html
Wasnt Nikola suposed to do that?
What happened.
Hydrogen fuel cost more to make then diesel,its extremely dangerous volatile to handle and store.
Its a dead END
Get over it
Freightliner has already been shipping their 220-mile range electric eCascadia, part of their Cascadia architecture. Hydrogen is the next step for long range.
And they are a subsidiary of Daimler.
![[image]](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.eODyMbGKYZHZQtF_AM3uVAHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=49e54ecd02e72c7eb617a25371d41b874fab02fe081e6265396128696f60404d&ipo=images) Building a hydrogen powered vehicle has been possible for quite some time. Producing hydrogen affordably in the volume needed in a green manner has always been the problem. And it still is.
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pianotuna
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One problem with ice engines and H2 is nitrous oxide may be produced. It has something to do with the temperature. I don't have a good understanding of the problem--just that it requires a special design.
Fuel cells don't share that problem, so far as I am aware.
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Benny37
Buffalo
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Lantley wrote:Benny37 wrote:map40 wrote: Tesla was never known by their quality.
Any one I ever looked at close, no matter the model,3, X, S, doesn't matter, had the worst job of body panel alignment I've ever seen. They need to go to a good body shop for a going over before they ever hit the road. The body panels were aligned better on 1970's Ford Mavericks and Pintos.
Really! Tesla is building an innovative looking car to compete with a Maserati! I can't imagine much effort was put in making sure TEsla had the cleanest lines in the industry. Tesla had much bigger challenges than body panel alignment.
Their innovation is certainly not about the body panels.
Their innovation transformed EV's from economy minded commuter boxes that the mainstream manufactures were struggling to build.
To a totally new concept that delivered enough performance and viability that it threatens to eliminate ICE cars in the future.
AS I keep saying you need to drive a Tesla to understand that the EV revolution is all about. Debating/chastising body panel alignment totally misses the boat!
Lighten up Francis. When slapping down the coin for an expensive vehicle its sort of nice when the body panels align as opposed to looking like it had collision damage repaired by Earl Scheib. That applies equally to an EV or ICE. The body panels are aligned better on a cheap Kia Soul which one could buy 2+ for the price of a base model 3. Those Model 3's look like a cross between a 1998 Pontiac Sunfire and a 1976 Ford Maverick except the Sunfires and Mavericks body panels aligned better.
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Lantley
Ellicott City, Maryland
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Body panel alignment has never been a criteria for a car purchase for me.
Most of the general public won't understand or even notice what you are referring to.
I may pay closer attention on a used car in an effort to look for possible accident damage but otherwise who cares on a new car.
You see lots of Teslas on the road. They have taken huge market share from BMW and Mercedes.
For better or worse at the end of the day the public is interested in Tesla's game changing innovation and could care less about body panel alignment.
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Reisender
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Lantley wrote:Body panel alignment has never been a criteria for a car purchase for me.
Most of the general public won't understand or even notice what you are referring to.
I may pay closer attention on a used car in an effort to look for possible accident damage but otherwise who cares on a new car.
You see lots of Teslas on the road. They have taken huge market share from BMW and Mercedes.
For better or worse at the end of the day the public is interested in Tesla's game changing innovation and could care less about body panel alignment.
Yah. We have had two teslas. A 3 and a Y. The quality on both was better than our Gesnd Cherokee. We have had two minor issues in three years. A camera alignment and a rear seat that didn’t fold down smoothly when the button was pressed. In both cases the service was done by tesla at our house. I have never had any manufacturer do that. Getting an appointment for the Jeep was always weeks away. Tesla was less than a week in both cases and it was all done on the app. Happy customers.
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thomas201
Eastern Panhandle WV
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I am the OP. I just read through the entire thread again. You still haven't convinced me that you can replace all vehicles with electric or hydrogen, then rebuild the entire infrastructure system converting natural gas to hydrogen or building the new electric transmission lines for less money than onsite production of hydrocarbons as a refinery feedstock at renewable energy facilities.
I think with both hydrogen and EV's, the cost of fleet replacement and building the support infrastructure are vastly under estimated. My way, you pay as you go. It is invisible to the consumer.
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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@benny37, I have to laugh. I understand fully what body panel alignment is as well.
The funny part is while I’ve never driven a Tesla, you can’t swing a dead cat around here without hitting (seeing) one.
I have never once looked at one and thought, ugh that door gap is something only a mother could love….
Idk, pretty weak argument imo.
Coming from someone like me who’s decidedly pro dead dinosaurs vehicles, if one has to say stupid things to try to support their decision or argument, it’s time to pick another fight….
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Lantley
Ellicott City, Maryland
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Reisender wrote:Lantley wrote:Body panel alignment has never been a criteria for a car purchase for me.
Most of the general public won't understand or even notice what you are referring to.
I may pay closer attention on a used car in an effort to look for possible accident damage but otherwise who cares on a new car.
You see lots of Teslas on the road. They have taken huge market share from BMW and Mercedes.
For better or worse at the end of the day the public is interested in Tesla's game changing innovation and could care less about body panel alignment.
Yah. We have had two teslas. A 3 and a Y. The quality on both was better than our Gesnd Cherokee. We have had two minor issues in three years. A camera alignment and a rear seat that didn’t fold down smoothly when the button was pressed. In both cases the service was done by tesla at our house. I have never had any manufacturer do that. Getting an appointment for the Jeep was always weeks away. Tesla was less than a week in both cases and it was all done on the app. Happy customers.
More of the game changing approach that has left the competition flat footed. Has anyone heard of the big three or any mainstream manufacturer sending techs to do home repairs via an app!
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Lantley
Ellicott City, Maryland
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thomas201 wrote:I am the OP. I just read through the entire thread again. You still haven't convinced me that you can replace all vehicles with electric or hydrogen, then rebuild the entire infrastructure system converting natural gas to hydrogen or building the new electric transmission lines for less money than onsite production of hydrocarbons as a refinery feedstock at renewable energy facilities.
I think with both hydrogen and EV's, the cost of fleet replacement and building the support infrastructure are vastly under estimated. My way, you pay as you go. It is invisible to the consumer.
We sort of touch on this somewhere along the way already.
Tesla took EV from the drawing board to reality overnight.
Mainstream manufactures were focus on building EV commuter economy boxes when Tesla left them in the dust.
Tesla built there own car distribution network including nationwide charging stations just to show it could be done.
The efficiency of the Tesla has led other manufactures to drop their ICE cars altogether.
Once again we want to blur the lines with storage , the power grid, and infrastructure issues. You don't have to be an aviation genius to understand when the Wright Brothers built their first plane there was no airports, pilots, runways, guidance ,systems, radar or FAA.
Somehow we got it done. EV infrastructure is a challenge that will take time and $$.But its not an insurmountable problem
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map40
Florida
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thomas201 wrote:I am the OP. I just read through the entire thread again. You still haven't convinced me that you can replace all vehicles with electric or hydrogen, then rebuild the entire infrastructure system converting natural gas to hydrogen or building the new electric transmission lines for less money than onsite production of hydrocarbons as a refinery feedstock at renewable energy facilities.
I think with both hydrogen and EV's, the cost of fleet replacement and building the support infrastructure are vastly under estimated. My way, you pay as you go. It is invisible to the consumer.
Nobody will be able to because it is not possible with the current technology at this time in the current technology development path. EVs are great for commuting and city traffic, but they fail with heavy load and long trips (which makes them quite difficult to use towing a trailer or fifth wheel).
Hydrogen is a great technology, but the only cost effective technology is direct sea water extraction and there is no solution for distribution in place yet, so we are looking between 10 to 20 years at best.
To your original question, from a person familiar with EVs and Hydrogen technology (and a long time owner of both), neither technology can replace ICEs today for the RVs application in most cases.
Now, if you have a very light trailer and are willing to put up with the charging, there are really good EVs that could work (some postings have actually shown). Besides that, Not currently available on my point of view.
(And as I normally say, my point of view is my pocket and my convenience; I will use any technology that is cheaper to own and as convenient for me than the alternatives)
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