Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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And back to the gubmint monitoring. Already in the world to have vehicles that will shut off if they think you’re drunk.
What you’re proposing is something that could literally be used to hand out traffic violations, virtually. Don’t threaten the govt with a good time!
And fwiw I would be all over a flat pay per mile based on avg fuel efficiency. Since I don’t own any vehicles that get very good and certainly not great fuel mileage. Win win for me.
But again it’s flawed.
Just tax the “fuel”. Let the EVers and EV mfgs pay for the infrastructure and technology to do it.
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pianotuna
Regina, SK, Canada
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Tax the fuel--which would encourage folks to charge at home, thereby lowering stress on the electrical grid.
Regards, Don
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ronharmless
The far side
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Like it or not, pay by the mile driven is coming down the road (figuratively speaking). Variables could include type of road, GVWR of vehicle, time of day, etc.
I would add that GPS data could easily be obtained and recorded to only track type of road, jurisdiction of road and miles driven on said road. But regardless, if you have a cell phone you can already be tracked; case in point: J6 defendants.
* This post was
edited 01/09/23 01:28pm by ronharmless *
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way2roll
Wilmington NC
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pianotuna wrote:Tax the fuel--which would encourage folks to charge at home, thereby lowering stress on the electrical grid.
How does charging at home lessen the stress on the power grid? You're still charging. Didn't CA ask folks not to charge their EV's during certain hours/days?
We had a cold snap here a few weeks ago and the power companies were doing rolling black outs to lessen stress on the grid and asking folks not to charge EV's.
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Reisender
NA
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way2roll wrote:pianotuna wrote:Tax the fuel--which would encourage folks to charge at home, thereby lowering stress on the electrical grid.
How does charging at home lessen the stress on the power grid? You're still charging. Didn't CA ask folks not to charge their EV's during certain hours/days?
We had a cold snap here a few weeks ago and the power companies were doing rolling black outs to lessen stress on the grid and asking folks not to charge EV's.
I’m not an expert on this stuff but I have heard that grid managers prefer EV’s to charge after midnight and before 5 AM for balancing reasons, although I don’t actually know what that means. I know a BC hydro rep said they prefer night charging but they don’t incentivize it like some power companies. When we were with Southern California Edison it was definitely cheaper after midnight. Most DC fast charging is done during the day because of road trips. Most home charging is done at night because of commuting. We always set our timer for 1 AM. It’s usually done by 2 AM.
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map40
Florida
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Joined: 01/15/2005
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Grit dog wrote:And back to the gubmint monitoring. Already in the world to have vehicles that will shut off if they think you’re drunk.
What you’re proposing is something that could literally be used to hand out traffic violations, virtually. Don’t threaten the govt with a good time!
And fwiw I would be all over a flat pay per mile based on avg fuel efficiency. Since I don’t own any vehicles that get very good and certainly not great fuel mileage. Win win for me.
But again it’s flawed.
Just tax the “fuel”. Let the EVers and EV mfgs pay for the infrastructure and technology to do it.
Your 3 post do nothing more than to show you misunderstanding of the technology, your lack of knowledge of the people who own EVs and your ignorance in the overall matter. EVs are available to everybody. Do you want to take advantage of it? Buy one. I have not seen yet a person that says "This is wrong, I want to pay more taxes".
I said it at least 15 times by now, MOST EV OWNERS ARE NOT GREEN PEACE ACTIVISTS. I don't have an EV to save the planet, I have it to save me money!.
If any of you ever took a tax deduction you have NO RIGHT to complain about EV owners, we are doing the same thing!
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map40
Florida
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Reisender wrote:way2roll wrote:pianotuna wrote:Tax the fuel--which would encourage folks to charge at home, thereby lowering stress on the electrical grid.
How does charging at home lessen the stress on the power grid? You're still charging. Didn't CA ask folks not to charge their EV's during certain hours/days?
We had a cold snap here a few weeks ago and the power companies were doing rolling black outs to lessen stress on the grid and asking folks not to charge EV's.
I’m not an expert on this stuff but I have heard that grid managers prefer EV’s to charge after midnight and before 5 AM for balancing reasons, although I don’t actually know what that means. I know a BC hydro rep said they prefer night charging but they don’t incentivize it like some power companies. When we were with Southern California Edison it was definitely cheaper after midnight. Most DC fast charging is done during the day because of road trips. Most home charging is done at night because of commuting. We always set our timer for 1 AM. It’s usually done by 2 AM.
Differential rate or differential meters, that is the answer because it forces EVers to charge during off-peak hours. Several states have both, not only for EVs, but for pool heaters, air conditioners and several other types of equipment. EVs ORIGINALLY were designed in Japan to level-load the power consumption by using the ChaDeMo plug. Being a 2-way plug, you could feed power to the grid in peak ours and recharge during the off-peak. It was the largest socially-funded energy storage project ever conceived, and an amazing one at that.
California has diferential rater and shutdown lines with diferential meters in certains cities, so does Nevada. I have my cars programed to start charging ar 12:30AM, and they are done by 5. I have no restrictions in Florida, but at that time my ACs are working less.
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map40
Florida
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Everybody keeps rolling politics and getting off the rails. Make peace with EVs, they won't be the final solution, but as they are 3 times more efficient than ICEs, they are here to stay for a group of the population until something cheaper/convenient comes along.
Very little so far into the trucks and towing as far as EVs because of the limits the technology has, but make no mistake, if a manufacturer makes a truck that can run on electricity and can be charged conveniently and cheaper than diesel IT WILL BE SOLD.
Today EVs used in commercial application is only ramping up on big fleets, like Amazon. You need big shoulder to afford the investment and reap the benefits. But they are not close to be used replacing trucks in most applications, which is the subject at hand.
EVs won't replace all ICEs application, not with the current technology, not with the current electric power capacity.
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Huntindog
Phoenix AZ
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Joined: 04/08/2002
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A few days ago the Wall Street Journal had an article about what it presently takes for renewables to supply power 24/7.
Apparently it has been done on a small scale in several locations. The common theme was that it takes 3 times the capacity of a conventional power plant AND an incredible amount of batteries to achieve the level of reliability we are used to. They flat out concluded that it cannot be done with todays technology.. It would take too much real estate and cost way too much.
So we are going headlong down a road that presently has a bad ending.
Will a better way be developed?..... Maybe and maybe not. One thing is certain. Companies will only continue down this road if makes financial sense. Presently Governments are providing enough incentives to make it so. But even they cannot afford to do this at the level it will take to be green. One thing is certain. Buisinesses will not shoulder the cost alone, as long as they know it is not the ultimate solution. As they would be loath to pay for all the stranded costs of a failed experiment IF a better way forward is found.
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map40
Florida
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Joined: 01/15/2005
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Huntindog wrote:A few days ago the Wall Street Journal had an article about what it presently takes for renewables to supply power 24/7.
Apparently it has been done on a small scale in several locations. The common theme was that it takes 3 times the capacity of a conventional power plant AND an incredible amount of batteries to achieve the level of reliability we are used to. They flat out concluded that it cannot be done with todays technology.. It would take too much real estate and cost way too much.
So we are going headlong down a road that presently has a bad ending.
Will a better way be developed?..... Maybe and maybe not. One thing is certain. Companies will only continue down this road if makes financial sense. Presently Governments are providing enough incentives to make it so. But even they cannot afford to do this at the level it will take to be green. One thing is certain. Buisinesses will not shoulder the cost alone, as long as they know it is not the ultimate solution. As they would be loath to pay for all the stranded costs of a failed experiment IF a better way forward is found.
There are a many reports in favor as there are against them. If what the reports against it say is true, why are all automakers going into it? NO AUTOMAKER WOULD GO INTO EVS IF THE REAL CASE WAS THAT BAD. Will it replace ICEs? NO WAY, THE TECHNOLOGY IN ITS CURRENT PATH CAN'T. When we learn to evaluate things objectively with no preconceptions or politics we will understand that EVs are just a variant type of vehicle that thanks to the advance of technology is now getting into the masker after 140 of being invented (remember, EVs are older than ICEs).
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