map40
Florida
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Reisender wrote:map40 wrote:Reisender wrote:For what it’s worth, 7 years ago when we bought our first EV it was 4 times cheaper to drive electric than gas. Now it’s 6 times, and that is being conservative.
Our cross Canada trip pulling our little trailer behind our EV would have been easily four times as much if we had been pulling it with our old grand Cherokee. The phone APP tracks all that.
To each his own and I have nothing against gas or diesel vehicles. They work well in many situations. But I would never go back. At least not for our needs. Diesel rules for heavy towing but in the near future electric will do fine in the RV world for those with smaller, lighter and lower profile trailers.
Jmho.
![[image]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52170994660_fa95795600_c.jpg)
Thanks for sharing! How did the towing affected the range?
As I said from the beginning, EVs are good for some people and some applications. And in those cases they are ADDICTIVE because they are so good.
Not everybody falls in this category, but to understand it you have to forget politics, preconceptions and ideologies, and simply evaluate facts.
Good morning Map40. It pretty much cuts the range in half. We didn’t have this trailer when we had our grand Cherokee but this kind of load pretty much did the same to our grand cherokees range. It did have about 60 kilometres greater range though. But it was a total gutless pig compared to this one. And it stunk like hell when it heated up. And with this tow vehicle we never worry about hot breaks, even on 13 percent grades. The regen looks after pretty much all the braking.
Happy trails.
Thanks for the info! I was expecting something in that range. Happy to see it works for you!
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blt2ski
Kirkland, Wa
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JRscooby wrote:SterlingHayden wrote:
So you actually believe when enough EVs replace ICE vehicles for it to show up on the revenue balance sheets in brackets, they're not going to be sticking their hands in the EV owners pockets to make it back up? Come on man. Where are they going to get those funds?
One reason given for fuel tax revenues not keeping up with road building/maintenance is better MPG means more miles driven per dollar of tax collected. 1 fair and easy way to fix this problem would beo zero out the per gallon tax, replace with per mile tax.
I believe a few states already have a tax/fee of $100-200 a year on license fees for DC rigs to make up for lost revenue due to no tax per gallon of fuel. Some have already started the $ per mile(s) driven per year tax due to hybrids etc too. This tax may also get put on an ICE, instead of the tax per gallon. Not too mention OTR rigs are having to give states miles driven, where they don't want to fill up in a VERY high fuel tax state like where I am, Washington state.
Reality, it's already happening in many jurisdictions! I see it as more of a "WHEN" it will happen to you, not an "IF" it will happen.
Scooby makes up a good point too! My current pickup gets double the mileage of previous one. On par with the two deezals before. I'm burning gaz, not diesel.
I will admit, nice having other power options than gas or diesel, LP didn't get too far for different and sundry reasons. Even at that, it is a good medium to power rigs, just as DC is for those where it makes sense. Many including the very pro DC fans admit, it's not for everyone!
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RetiredRealtorRick
St. Augustine Beach, FL
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map40 wrote:RetiredRealtorRick wrote:The i3 is a great concept, but also probably the best argument ever as to why alcohol consumption should never be allowed in design studios.
They gave a group of engineers green light to design the best electric car they could, and they did. The I3 is not a luxury sedan, a highway cruiser or a race car. It's a daily derived with a plan to overcome the biggest problem of EVs: Dependency on the charger. From really skinny tires so you have more foot space to carbon fiber panels made in 4 minutes (that even today no other company can replicate), It is an incredible design, but also a perfect proof that EVs are only good for certain applications, not all applications.
To the subject of this thread, I don't see EV trucks taking over the market with the current technology or with the technology that is coming.
I agree with much of what you say, but I think very few people have uttered the words . . . "look at that i3 . . . what a beautiful car!"
Face it, it's butt ugly, and didn't have to be. (Case in point: 2023 Prius vs. the current Prius)
. . . never confuse education with intelligence, nor motion with progress
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map40
Florida
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RetiredRealtorRick wrote:map40 wrote:RetiredRealtorRick wrote:The i3 is a great concept, but also probably the best argument ever as to why alcohol consumption should never be allowed in design studios.
They gave a group of engineers green light to design the best electric car they could, and they did. The I3 is not a luxury sedan, a highway cruiser or a race car. It's a daily derived with a plan to overcome the biggest problem of EVs: Dependency on the charger. From really skinny tires so you have more foot space to carbon fiber panels made in 4 minutes (that even today no other company can replicate), It is an incredible design, but also a perfect proof that EVs are only good for certain applications, not all applications.
To the subject of this thread, I don't see EV trucks taking over the market with the current technology or with the technology that is coming.
I agree with much of what you say, but I think very few people have uttered the words . . . "look at that i3 . . . what a beautiful car!"
Face it, it's butt ugly, and didn't have to be. (Case in point: 2023 Prius vs. the current Prius)
Yes, but I don't see it much from the inside ??
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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JRscooby wrote:SterlingHayden wrote:
So you actually believe when enough EVs replace ICE vehicles for it to show up on the revenue balance sheets in brackets, they're not going to be sticking their hands in the EV owners pockets to make it back up? Come on man. Where are they going to get those funds?
One reason given for fuel tax revenues not keeping up with road building/maintenance is better MPG means more miles driven per dollar of tax collected. 1 fair and easy way to fix this problem would be zero out the per gallon tax, replace with per mile tax.
Stands to reason you’d be in favor of more government oversight and personal tracking…
WA is talking aboot this. It’s another ridiculous logistical and human rights cluster fark.
Not unlike the WA state bill to eliminate credit rating from insurance premium calculations. So egregious that even a liberal Supreme Court judge issued a stay of implementation on it.
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RambleOnNW
Pacific Northwest
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SoCalGas and Ford are collaborating on a hydrogen fuel cell Ford F550 Super Duty pickup.
https://newsroom.socalgas.com/stories/so........r-duty-hydrogen-fuel-cell-electric-truck
“The project represents a unique opportunity to decarbonize large fleets like utilities that require long ranges, fast refueling, onboard power needs, and 24/7 emergency response. “
DOE has narrowed down hydrogen hub production candidates to 33:
https://www.energy.gov/oced/regional-clean-hydrogen-hubs-notifications
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JRscooby
Indepmo
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Grit dog wrote:JRscooby wrote:
One reason given for fuel tax revenues not keeping up with road building/maintenance is better MPG means more miles driven per dollar of tax collected. 1 fair and easy way to fix this problem would be zero out the per gallon tax, replace with per mile tax.
Stands to reason you’d be in favor of more government oversight and personal tracking…
WA is talking aboot this. It’s another ridiculous logistical and human rights cluster fark.
Not unlike the WA state bill to eliminate credit rating from insurance premium calculations. So egregious that even a liberal Supreme Court judge issued a stay of implementation on it.
Well, how many threads about the condition of highways we want to use while enjoying our RVs. Should they raise the fuel tax so only fuel burners pay for the roads? But a per year tax on the alternative fuel vehicles? That would mean people that don't drive much pay a higher rate than people that drive a lot. Probably the best idea would be put the highway system under control of DOD. That department always has unlimited funds.
Fact is, the only way to have a functioning road system is public finance.
Points on the tracking. Because some members on this site live across the borders, congress/courts have granted security departments right to monitor us. Plus most of use use loyalty cards, stores know when/what we buy. Credit Card companies track all we buy, including when/where we buy fuel*. Cell phone must track our location to know when to hand off signal.
Then most states require some kind of inspection when ownership of car transfers, and at regular intervals in the life of it. I bet part of the report is mileage. Just like 1099 workers are expected to report their income, pay the tax on that income every quarter, a car owner could report miles driven. Then when next inspection due, state compare odometer readings. If owner has not reported/paid tax on all miles, no license plates, permission to use our roads, will be granted. Maybe I not paranoid enough to see where state is getting any more info than do now.
*That CC info collected at pump can give a much more detailed description of when and where you go than any self report of the miles driven in 3 months
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map40
Florida
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For heavy load applications Hydrogen is a much better answer than EVs. I made 2 hydrogen vehicles (combustion based, not power-cell based) and they worked great.
A few months ago it was finished testing the first hydrogen extraction equipment direct from sea water, which would make hydrogen production far less expensinve to produce.
The problem with Hydrogen right now is storage and distribution, we don't have the infrastructure built for that.
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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Got a little long winded there to no avail scooby….so I’ll help you out.
Less than 1/3 of states have any sort of passenger vehicle inspections. Less than 1/5 of states have statewide emissions testing (another potential spot to nab mileages) and some of them are the same states as those w/inspections. So for that method, over 2/3 of states would have to reinstate or develop another state funded program.
Record mileage at registration intervals? Ok, except that’s not already a thing and there are countless vehicles that are odometer exempt.
So that leaves either a tracking device required for every vehicle on the road or an honor system. Lol at the cost complexity and personal privacy invasion of the former and double lol at the latter option.
Now let’s talk about what the per mile rate would be? Will it be calculated individually for each different individual vehicle? Or will those with fuel efficient vehicles be overcharged like those that don’t that don’t drive a lot in your scenarios.
And all this and have only touched on in state passenger vehicles.
Now add the complexity of interstate travel. Instantly it takes the states out of the equation and makes it something that can only be federally administered…which aside from its own pitfalls of the feds botching the solution even worse and at more cost than individual states, many states would need significant administrative changes to their entire tax structure.
And haven’t even touched on commercial vehicles or all kinds….
Besides, I thought ICE powered vehicles were going the way of the dodo bird?? Are they not?
Why revamp a large governmental program for something that is going to yield little ROI? I mean the govt does that c rap all the time but no need to create another black hole to throw tax payer dollars into…
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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So we have a system that works perfectly from a pay per quantity used and pay per where you’re driving standpoint. One could say it’s a system that is on cruise control and requires no modifications if not for the pesky EVs paying their share. So why not concentrate efforts just on the EVs?
Well for one, the consumer subsidies and all the feel good nut rubbers giving each other reacharounds about how they’re saving the environment would have to cease, immediately.
But based on your suggested approaches that had little actual real world validity, an obvious choice would seem to be to tax consumer electricity rates higher and those that use more charging their cars pay more.
That nullifys the “feel good” free charging stations but if done soon, is easy since that is a very small part of installations. And I’m sure they could be modified to pay stations just like the commercial charging ports pretty easy.
But then those who have ICE powered vehicles still are being overtaxed, which is still the vast majority of vehicles…..
One thing we all agree on is it’s a connundrum that doesn’t seem to have an apparent easy singular fair solution.
Except maybe one. And it’s already started but it’s so watered down that it’s not actually viable. And that is an EV tax based on the size, expected lifetime power consumption of the vehicle.
But even that has its issues. Aside from making EVs even more prohibitively expensive to purchase new even if by the “rich folk” saving the world, resale will now have a lump increase which is harder to swallow the further you get down the personal income ladder.
So maybe JUST EVers could get the gps monitors and pay as you go with the home setups.
But that won’t happen. At least not in the near future. As if those folks ended up paying their fair share for “road use” it would make them less attractive to operate.
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