dsrace
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anyone have any experience with https://www.bpconversions.com/
they are the same price as a hensly or pro pride and i already have a gooseneck ball in the bed. this dune sport is 12'6" tall so it catch's a fair amount of wind and can still move my drw side to side. it's not horrible but enough that my wife doesn't want to take over for a bit as she would with the wolf pack 295 fiver.
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dedmiston
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Doesn’t the gooseneck void your warranty?
2014 RAM 3500 Diesel 4x4 Dually long bed. AISIN trans & 4.10 rear. B&W RVK3600 hitch • 2015 Crossroads Elevation Homestead Toy Hauler ("The Taj Mahauler") • Hooligan #3
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Grit dog
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I would have suggested just selling and buying another 5ver as toyhaulers of any flavor are dime a dozen, but I see you bought a new custom unit so probably attached to it.
Idk seems like it would work. But seems like something I wouldn’t personally spend $5 on.
Although I don’t even use a wdh with our similar size weight toyhauler. Hook and go baby!
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KD4UPL
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No experience with it but it looks like a very interesting product. Shouldn't void the warranty as they aren't modifying the trailer. I would think it would be really light on tongue weight compared to a trailer actually built to be a GN or FW trailer. But, it would still probably have more (and better placed) tongue weight than the trailer did originally.
The area above the hitch would possibly be built with a storage platform for generator, firewood, etc.
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dsrace
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Grit dog wrote:I would have suggested just selling and buying another 5ver as toyhaulers of any flavor are dime a dozen, but I see you bought a new custom unit so probably attached to it.
Idk seems like it would work. But seems like something I wouldn’t personally spend $5 on.
Although I don’t even use a wdh with our similar size weight toyhauler. Hook and go baby!
i did buy a custom built trailer and it is only 30' oal. i thought for sure that was short enough on the bumper that it would tow close to as nice as the fiver we previously had run for 10 years. i guess i was spoiled with the fiver! empty it tows great but wind has grabbed it a couple times and i felt that behind my drw. i kept the drw as the f350 diesel is paid for and trucks are crazy high imo.
with my sand rail pulled in my toyhauler is tongue light and really bad. had to pull 130 lbs of spare tires off the rear and put them on the front during the first trip. that was 85% better immediately. it will be a rear pain to back my sand rail in but that seems to be the best solution at this point. the hitch weighs some 300 lbs ( would have to re read to know for sure) but i don't think that would tech be tongue, or maybe some would be? i like the fact that it bolts on and is transferable. very very few fivers have 14' of true cargo area and i say that as my sand rails front track width is 80" wide and rear is 90". far more bumper hitch floor plans to choose from......if i sold the custom one.
i don't care what it looks like either. our dune trips to idaho are a 16hr drive one way. we cross the entire state of wyoming and a fair portion of idaho..... no shortage of wind in either state. i don't think this would apply any more load or even the same amount of load as a wdh system, but i just don't know enough about it.
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dsrace
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KD4UPL wrote:No experience with it but it looks like a very interesting product. Shouldn't void the warranty as they aren't modifying the trailer. I would think it would be really light on tongue weight compared to a trailer actually built to be a GN or FW trailer. But, it would still probably have more (and better placed) tongue weight than the trailer did originally.
The area above the hitch would possibly be built with a storage platform for generator, firewood, etc.
you mention tongue weight, this is specifically what i am trying to wrap my head around. this hitch weighs 300 and some lbs but that won't specifically be added to the tongue. some of it might but i imagine most of it will be in the bed of the truck. my f350 drw wont mind that. or am i thinking of that backwards??
my trailer empty has 16% tongue and if i haul my 2k lb sand rail, ( mid engine, 60% of that is in the rear with out occupants) it is very tongue light. as in it actually walked my drw to the point i had to throw the brake controller to straightened it out, twice. i then pulled over and began shifting weight. that was a sudden diaginal gust of wind and i had an anderson wdh system. the wdh is of no use as this trailer still doesn't squat my truck to that point, empty or loaded. i pulled the two spare tires off the rear and put one under the bed/cargo area and one in the back of the truck. moved 2 tool box's out of the bed of the truck to beside the bed in the nose of the camper. apprx 100 lbs for the 2 tool box's and that instantly made an 85% diff.
a true fiver or GN would be closer to 20 to 25% pin. i have two spare (235-80x16 , 14 ply on steel rims, feels like 65 lbs ish) mounted underneath by the rear ramp gate. they have a steel H frame welded ( imo tacked ) to the I beams. https://youtu.be/vn9t9gT44cw .... https://youtu.be/HKIK6FRUR50 .....https://youtu.be/Mqo3TrNlXV4 i guestimate 150 lbs for the whole assembly. if i were to add this bpconverison i would move that entire assy from the tail end to right against the end of the a frame , under the chassis. there is an open spot identical in size as the spot in the rear is. that would relieve 150lbs off the rear and add 150 lbs to the nose. not sure if that would equate to a 250 - 300lb tongue weight increase over all or not? i also added a 50 lb steel tool box to the nose where the batteries would go. put my hoses and what not in it. could make it 20% ?? i think the GN would def add leverage and as well as control as far as sway control goes. that is my opinion, and that's what i am really wondering.
i designed the floor plan to pull my sand rail in, rather then backing it in. the front track width is 80" wide and cargo width for the front is 88" on the floor. the rear is 90" with paddle tires and 84" with scab wheels. i really don't want to swap wheels if i don't have to as that was part of the reason for the custom build.
i have considered simply moving the spare tire assy forward but i know there is a point where one could be to tongue heavy or is that incorrect? we do use it as a camper a few times a years and really don't want to move tires for different trips if at all possible. i have 7k lb ccc and only put 3500 lbs in it so that isn't an issue. the tongue appears to be built out of a more appropriate wall thickness then some i have seen. still don't want to overload it though.
* This post was
edited 01/01/23 07:28am by dsrace *
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valhalla360
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dsrace wrote:
i did buy a custom built trailer and it is only 30' oal. i thought for sure that was short enough on the bumper that it would tow close to as nice as the fiver we previously had run for 10 years. i guess i was spoiled with the fiver! empty it tows great but wind has grabbed it a couple times and i felt that behind my drw. i kept the drw as the f350 diesel is paid for and trucks are crazy high imo.
Have you taken it to the scales to see what your weights are?
If empty it pulls great and loaded it's squirrely, it may be that you are too light on the tongue when loaded.
A properly set up bumper pull will tow just fine. Not as good as a 5er but shouldn't be an issue.
How bad was the cross wind? I've had the wind grab us both with 5er and bumper pull. If it's strong enough, I've seen semis blown around.
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dsrace
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valhalla360 wrote:dsrace wrote:
i did buy a custom built trailer and it is only 30' oal. i thought for sure that was short enough on the bumper that it would tow close to as nice as the fiver we previously had run for 10 years. i guess i was spoiled with the fiver! empty it tows great but wind has grabbed it a couple times and i felt that behind my drw. i kept the drw as the f350 diesel is paid for and trucks are crazy high imo.
Have you taken it to the scales to see what your weights are?
If empty it pulls great and loaded it's squirrely, it may be that you are too light on the tongue when loaded.
A properly set up bumper pull will tow just fine. Not as good as a 5er but shouldn't be an issue.
How bad was the cross wind? I've had the wind grab us both with 5er and bumper pull. If it's strong enough, I've seen semis blown around.
you make a very good point and i have not weighed it. a series of events in 2022 kept me from using it more then once and that was a 9 hr drive, empty, to mt rushmore and back.
dune sport said they weighed it, stated it weighed 7195 lbs / 1195 lbs tongue, empty. i call that 7200/1200 lbs. i want to believe them but i do need to know for sure and i need to know loaded as well. there is a cat scale/truck stop, 25 miles from me as well. thinking about a weigh safe hitch to see the different tongue weights loaded differently once i weigh it loaded at the cat scale.
i pulled our then , 2011 wolf pack 295 34' fiver for 10 years. high winds would grab it but for the most part, never horrible. had a couple experiences between rawlings and rock springs wyoming that were attention getters....swirling wind. when i say high winds, i am referring to 30 to 40 mph gusting winds. a good trip is 15 to 20 mph winds around here, through kansas, wyoming, nebraska and now got to experience 30/35 mph gusting winds through part of south dakota. alot of it is the times of the year i can get away. the 9hr trip to mt rushmore, empty, wasn't bad at all. the worst of the tow in those gusting winds was through the hills. it got concerning but never out of control. picture below is at the camp ground by mt rushmore sd and other is at the sand dunes in oklahoma. in the pic of it at the heatland rv park in sd, that is w/o asssist from the anderson wdh anti sway system.
so, i have only made one trip loaded with the sand rail ( oct '21 ) as i have missed all dune trips for 2022. 1 trip empty to mt rushmore. between a massive hail storm ( $42k in damages to just our house), tree removal/clean up and finishing the build on this toyhauler ( luckily it was in the building ).
the only trip i've made loaded was in 25/35 mph gusting winds for 5 out of a 7 hr drive. yes i know those are higher winds and they will effect a bumper hitch more so then a fiver/GN and that is why i am looking at the bpconversion. during that 7hr dune trip drive, i had to stop 4 different times to adjust the anderson wdh. i finally set it too tight and that def makes it worse. north of salina kansas, i got hit, diagonally, twice, and i could read the side of the toyhauler in my mirror. i hit the the trailer brake to straighten it out as i let off until i got to an exit. that is when i started shifting weight to the nose. been many years since i felt wind throw a trailer and a drw around like that! moved the spare tires from the rear to the front and tool boxs as i listed above in my previous reply. that made an 85% change for the better and i continued. definitely tongue light with the sand rail pulled in. my fear is that shifting that weight permanently might make it tongue heavy empty??
its 2k lbs ( specifically 1960 lb wet ) and 60% of that is in the rear w/o occupants. backing it in is doable with the winch, but not a fun time. have to swap rear tires to scab wheels ( leaving 2.5" on each side when loaded) and winch it in. pulled in, my front wheels are parked directly on top of the first axle.
![[image]](https://i.postimg.cc/zLT81JPN/camp-ground-pic.jpg)
![[image]](https://i.postimg.cc/xNCwqYgc/thumbnail-IMG-20220522-085012.jpg)
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valhalla360
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dsrace wrote:dune sport said they weighed it, stated it weighed 7195 lbs / 1195 lbs tongue, empty. i call that 7200/1200 lbs. i want to believe them but i do need to know for sure and i need to know loaded as well. there is a cat scale/truck stop, 25 miles from me as well. thinking about a weigh safe hitch to see the different tongue weights loaded differently once i weigh it loaded at the cat scale.
.........
its 2k lbs and 60% of that is in the rear w/o occupants. backing it in is doable with the winch, but not a fun time. have to swap rear tires to scab wheels ( leaving 2.5" on each side when loaded) and winch it in. pulled in, my front wheels are parked directly on top of the first axle.
I wouldn't trust the manufacturer numbers for a start. Go to the CAT scale fully loaded as if you are going on a trip.
2klb with a center of gravity 6-10ft behind the axles could easily remove 500-800lb off the hitch. If we assume the 1200lb is correct, that leaves the hitch weight at somewhere around 400-700lb on a trailer that is likely pushing 10k lb fully loaded. That would be 4-7% hitch weight...no wonder it gets squirly.
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dsrace
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I wouldn't trust the manufacturer numbers for a start. Go to the CAT scale fully loaded as if you are going on a trip.
2klb with a center of gravity 6-10ft behind the axles could easily remove 500-800lb off the hitch. If we assume the 1200lb is correct, that leaves the hitch weight at somewhere around 400-700lb on a trailer that is likely pushing 10k lb fully loaded. That would be 4-7% hitch weight...no wonder it gets squirly.
i agree and i do need to go weigh it once the weather gets better. we have more snow and ice forecasted for today. my guestimate was 10k to 10,500 lbs loaded.
i'm betting the tongue weight was closer to 600 lbs as that would explain why moving the two spare tires off the tail to the nose and adding apprx 100 lbs of tools made such a major difference. still wasn't enough but 85% better using my drw. i do not travel with any liquids in my tanks. considered adding 25 gals to the black tank as that is the farthest forward one.
for that trip home, i moved all the additional gear i could to the front end to help even more including the soda and bottled water. i thought that would help for the trip home. we got 100 miles and i had to stop as it didn't help, actually felt like it was worse and that made no sense what so every! the front of the camper was now 1.5" higher then it was on the way down. you could see it and i measured it at the truck stop. adjusted the wdh, did not drop the tongue any. went another 200 miles with 95% of that drive in a tail wind. handled fine with a tail wind. i could not figure out how adding all the weight to the front was making the tongue sit higher then it did on the trip down.
finally got home, exhausted, 7hr drive turned into an 8 and it was starting to rain as we pulled up. scrambling to get as much unloaded as we could when my wife tells me the roof i leaking in the bedroom and soaking the bed. the only thing one can do in that instance is just laugh. i pulled it into the building and started cleaning up the leak and setting fans up. we were hooked up to city water for that 3 day trip. i have 100 gals fresh water, 50 gal gray, 50 gal black. 2- 50 gal fresh tanks, one mounted between the axles and the majority of the 2nd one sits in front of the first axle. for some unknown reason, as i walked past the tank monitor panel, i checked the tank levels. i had emptied the black and gray before we left the park but still needed to flush them. when i pushed the fresh water button it read full. i thought great, sensors are out along with the roof leak! i walked out and opened the tank drain valve ( 1.5" od pvc pipe) and like an idiot, i was standing right in front of it expecting it to be empty. i'm sure you can guess what happened next! discharges out the side. the check valve in the water pump had been filling up the fresh water tank over the last 3 days. that 100 gals of water dropped the back end 1.5".
![[image]](https://i.postimg.cc/MMG3KFnp/freshwaterdischarge.jpg)
i am just trying to get my ducks in a row before the next dune trip. i know that the bpconversion might be a expensive bandaid but it will def control sway far better. i know that w/o moving the axles back that the weight of rail is still hanging that far back. i believe that one can be tongue heavy on a bumper hitch and experience sway from that. i think the bpconversion would add leverage but really wondering if that 6' extension forward of the axles will add any tongue weight. i know it's not the same as moving the wheels back but i wonder if it amplifies tongue weight to some small extent?? if it did then permanently moving the spare tire carrier forward would be no issue.
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