toedtoes
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nickthehunter wrote:Lantley wrote:Cummins12V98 wrote:Why did CLEAN and ABUNDANT Natural Gas become EVIL???
Fracking caused contaminated wells and gave the industry a black eye.
Yes it's plentiful but at what cost?
It maybe clean burning but it is debatable how clean it is to produce. The same can be said for any similar activity in the industrialized world; such as mining, building dams, or just manufacturing in general (steel companies were notorious for pollution, communities discharging sewers to rivers - even to this day, etc.).
However, with proper technics and safeguards in place, the risks are effectively minimized. Or - we can be perfectly safe just go back to the stone age when there were no man made risks in life.
The problem is that businesses prefer to not use "proper techniques and safeguards" because they are more expensive. And we can't trust the governments to ensure the "proper techniques and safeguards". So that minimal risk has a very bad habit of turning into disasters. And anyone who has experienced one of those disasters will tell you it's not worth it.
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JRscooby
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goducks10 wrote:Michelle.S wrote:Without getting political the good old Pres said the Military would be all electric by 2035, I believe that was the date. No mention how they were going to fly Jets or move our Aircraft Carriers.
Guess I didn't see that. Hmmm. Don't think that will happen.
Can't see what ain't there. President stated would strive to be "carbon neutral" which is not the same.
OTOH, the judgement of DOD is climate change is now, and will increase as a threat to our security.
But the if canine barked in those words, the would not be giving a "other" to kick down at. Without that other, their rage machine might start punching up, toward the reason for the problem.
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nickthehunter
Midwest
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toedtoes wrote:nickthehunter wrote:Lantley wrote:Cummins12V98 wrote:Why did CLEAN and ABUNDANT Natural Gas become EVIL???
Fracking caused contaminated wells and gave the industry a black eye.
Yes it's plentiful but at what cost?
It maybe clean burning but it is debatable how clean it is to produce. The same can be said for any similar activity in the industrialized world; such as mining, building dams, or just manufacturing in general (steel companies were notorious for pollution, communities discharging sewers to rivers - even to this day, etc.).
However, with proper technics and safeguards in place, the risks are effectively minimized. Or - we can be perfectly safe just go back to the stone age when there were no man made risks in life.
The problem is that businesses prefer to not use "proper techniques and safeguards" because they are more expensive. And we can't trust the governments to ensure the "proper techniques and safeguards". So that minimal risk has a very bad habit of turning into disasters. And anyone who has experienced one of those disasters will tell you it's not worth it. So where do you get your groceries from seeing as you want to ensure everything is safe? And your prescriptions? And your drinking water? Can't trust government or corporations. Need I go on?
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toedtoes
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You're digging in the weeds way off in the forest...
We're talking about natural gas and why it isn't more popular. It's because the natural gas business has chosen to use cheap methods of extraction that destroy our planet. If they, and the governments, could be trusted to use safer and more environmentally sound techniques, then it'd be different. But they have CHOSEN to go with the cheap unsafe unsound techniques knowing they are unsafe and unsound in the name of profits - and by doing such, they are no longer a viable solution for environmentally sound energy.
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JRscooby
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Bet the first guy that tied a sharp rock to a stick was upset at his son for throwing the combination at food instead of getting close enough to poke it.
Every advance in technology has encountered pushback. And every change is not a advance.
nickthehunter wrote:So where do you get your groceries from seeing as you want to ensure everything is safe? And your prescriptions? And your drinking water? Can't trust government or corporations. Need I go on?
toedtoes wrote:You're digging in the weeds way off in the forest...
We're talking about natural gas and why it isn't more popular. It's because the natural gas business has chosen to use cheap methods of extraction that destroy our planet. If they, and the governments, could be trusted to use safer and more environmentally sound techniques, then it'd be different. But they have CHOSEN to go with the cheap unsafe unsound techniques knowing they are unsafe and unsound in the name of profits - and by doing such, they are no longer a viable solution for environmentally sound energy.
The next few lines are often looked at like something floating in a swimming pool. I hope that as part of discussion it can be looked at long enough to see it's a Tootsie Roll.
When Communism is corrupted (Every case I know of), the benefits, and means of production end up in few hands, everybody else gets little or nothing.
OTOH, Capitalism, when working as designed, unless constrained by strong unions and or strong government, the benefits, and means of production end up in few hands, everybody else gets little or nothing.
Going back at least 100 years, the power Capital has over government has been increasing (and increasing at increasing rate) and for about 3 decades the power of unions has been eroded. (Recently gaining, but a long way to go to peak)
Going back to start of industrial revolution, (Or even before. Beaver trade was hard on environment. Buffalo hunting destroyed a away of life) the owners of extractive business have kept the profits, but passed much of the cost on to society. For natural gas this means You own the ground your house sits on, but somebody else can profit from pumping from below your house. And what is worse, IMHO, is if in the process of getting that gas out, some gets in your well water, or even the ground gets unstable enough to damage the house, most times you are out of luck. You think there is any chance the capitalist will take responsibility for the carbon released by burning that "clean gas"?
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Cummins12V98
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Lantley wrote:Cummins12V98 wrote:Why did CLEAN and ABUNDANT Natural Gas become EVIL???
Fracking caused contaminated wells and gave the industry a black eye.
Yes it's plentiful but at what cost?
It maybe clean burning but it is debatable how clean it is to produce.
From what I have seen not as bad as all the raping of millions of tons to get the precious metals for the EV industry.
My point was it was going to be the second coming until someone got the great idea to convince the GREENIES that EV's are clean and green, NOT!!!
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Cummins12V98
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goducks10 wrote:Michelle.S wrote:Without getting political the good old Pres said the Military would be all electric by 2035, I believe that was the date. No mention how they were going to fly Jets or move our Aircraft Carriers.
Guess I didn't see that. Hmmm. Don't think that will happen.
That's how owned one political party is in this Country.
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Cptnvideo
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There is also simply not enough money to do everything the Greenies want to do.
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Lantley
Ellicott City, Maryland
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Cummins12V98 wrote:Lantley wrote:Cummins12V98 wrote:Why did CLEAN and ABUNDANT Natural Gas become EVIL???
Fracking caused contaminated wells and gave the industry a black eye.
Yes it's plentiful but at what cost?
It maybe clean burning but it is debatable how clean it is to produce.
From what I have seen not as bad as all the raping of millions of tons to get the precious metals for the EV industry.
My point was it was going to be the second coming until someone got the great idea to convince the GREENIES that EV's are clean and green, NOT!!!
It was going to be the 2nd coming until wells started to get contaminated from fracking run off. Greenies had no need to get involved.
Fracking woes were self inflicted. Property owners were not willing to trade profits from natural gas land leases for contaminated water.
Frackers in the end could not stop the collateral damage of water contamination.
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BarneyS
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Too much clean up needed to continue this discussion. Thread closed. Next time leave ALL political discussion out.
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