24 feet versus 26' dilemma, have to decide fast

[mountaintravele]

Hello! I'm a complete newbie to RVs.
I'm buying a motorhome to travel the country for a year or two.
I have no pets.
(I had extensively traveled America and camped all over for 20 years without an RV and I love tent camping)

I found that my favorite places (in National Forests and parks) allow 24 feet max motorhome max.
Sometimes even the road to the place has this length limit
(windy mountain roads).
Upon viewing 24' units I feel tehre's too little space to fulltime in for 1-2 years. I guess I feel the fatigue from my extensive tent camping and all the tiny houses I stayed in, as I've been a full time traveler for quite a while
26' seems like a very good compromise size-wise (ideally I'd want a 31 but this won't get me into placdes)
Gas mileage on those seems to be the same, prices too.
The problem is the size limits.

Do you think I can get away with 26' in 24' spaces?
I see some indications people had been doing it but not sure if it's for real.

[pnichols]

mountaintraveler wrote:

pnichols wrote:
If I was a bit younger and much richer, I think I'd consider this - 19'8" long and AWD - probably install a bit taller tires on it for more ground clearance, though:

https://pleasureway.com/models/ontour20/

LOL 180K!
I grew up in a world where most roads were dirt (deep dirt, the kind that sinks army tanks) and camping was simple and inexpensive activity, in rough norther climate.
Look what they did to this now...And these are rapidly depreciating assets, costing as much as a house that is going to only appreciate (while one spends equal amount of money on regular maintenance)
They're going to force electric vehicles pretty soon, I'm sure, what's going to become of the value of these overpriced vans...when it'll be hard and very expensive to buy any fuel.

Class C and many class Bs are overbuilt and have too many "amenities" I have no use for. I don't need entertainment system/TV, on-board generator, 2nd sink, big bed, oven, multiple stove burners (need one), microwave, outside shower, dinette, can do without A/C and 6 gallon water heater (1 gal heater is fine with me, with 6 gal I just waste propane).
So it'd make sense to build something I want on my own, with own hands as they charge insane money for builds, or gut a small trailer to make more storage space. But I won't travel after this last big trip as want to settle into small farming life.

I don't need a generator except for emergency, my cheap solar panel meets all my needs. I have to run Onan on board generator every couple of weeks to avoid clogged carburetor, which gives me headache as I hate fumes, noise and have to set new altitude every time and my altitude switch is finicky, got to change to summer oil, have to worry about fuel varnishing and fuel quality for that expensive, picky generator - and I have to run electric heater outside, heating the forest to load that generator properly! I prefer my cheap 2nd carry-on dual fuel Pulsar generator, one kind of oil for all weather, and I only use propane - no fuel rot, no mess or smell, no exercising it. On-board Onan seems to require convoluted procedure to prepare it for storage, much more than draining the carbureator, so can't just keep it shut down.

Ann Cat ... since this is a Class C forum section ... what year/brand of Class C do you have?

My good old E450 based 2005 Itasca (Winnebago) 24 ft. Class C I bought new in 2006 came stock with all those "luxuries" that I guess you're saying you don't need. The DW and myself use them all when drycamping - whether drycamping in a campground or drycamping out on the far side of beyond.

We never drive through an entrance leading to the middle of nowhere without having first topped up our 55 gallon gasoline tank, which gives our built-in Onan genny plenty of run-time - in addition to what the V10 might need to get us back to civilization. I also carry along a portable genny along with it's own gas supply so as to provide coach battery charging backup - to either the Onan charging of the batteries (plus running all other electrical gadgets) or idling of the V10 to charge the batteries. I never adjust the Onan's altitude setting - just leave it on sea level all the time.

I maintain positive air pressure inside the coach whenever running either of the two generators or idling of the V10 - so as to use physics to absolutely keep out any/all fumes ... and it works like a champ.

It sure is nice to have inside or outside showers, perfect coach interior temperatures regardless of outside temps, plenty of refrigerator/freezer cubic footage, 3 stovetop burners if needed, an oven if needed, a large 12V fan with a long extension cord to blow on us when sitting outside under the awning in hot outside temps, a lounge chair for reading or watching of movies when not outside, large storage tanks, two queen size beds for complete sleeping comfort, 5 ways of recharging the coach batteries anytime anywhere (we don't have/need solar - yet) and higher-than-stock rough road clearance due to my use of tires with a larger diameter than what came stock on our Class C. All of this is supported via an overkill E450 chassis for added strength and durability that took me a long time to locate under a 24 ft. Class C ... which are usually built on only an E350 chassis.

The infuriating part is that all the above set us back only around $54K when we bought new back in the day. What a rip'off todays RV prices are!

[mountaintravele]

opnspaces wrote:

mountaintraveler wrote:

I had run it from sea level to around 8000ft. My manual says that running it with higher altitude setting at low altitude will damage the generator. Not sure about the other way, but its supposed to sputter, surge, run poorly if altitude is high and isn't set in the generator. May be its not noticeable with newer generator in top shape.

This is how the above works. Your generator needs a mixture of fuel and air in the correct ratio of air to fuel to work properly (14.7 parts of air to 1 part of fuel is correct).

Say you set that mixture at sea level. Now when you go up to 8,000 feet there is less air. So if you make no changes then you might have 8 parts of air to 1 part of fuel. (that ratio is completely made up but the point is still valid). There ratio has too much fuel and not enough air. That is known as a rich condition which can cause sputter surge and loss of power. But it doesn't destroy the engine.

However, if you are at 8,000 feet elevation and you set your generator correctly so it has a 14:1 ratio everything is fine and your generator is happy. But when you go back to sea level there is a whole bunch more air. So you might now have a ratio of 20:1 (20 parts of air to each part of fuel) That is known as a lean condition and is very bad. When an engine is running lean it is running hot and can destroy itself in a short amount of time.

The altitude adjustment knob (plastic) is actually missing, the way I bought it, and I use pliers to set altitude as the dial markings and the metal knob housing are intact, per advice from Cummings tech support and they said altitude settings are very approximate. The whole design is ridiculous as they do not sell replacement knobs and require expensive carbureator replacement if this piece of plasic falls off, while all it would take is to seat the plastic back into its housing. To me it all is expensive scam and I'm looking forward to life free of gas or diesel generators once I sell.

[mountaintravele]

klutchdust wrote:
Something to think about if you own a generator.
"After a prolonged period of running without load, the engine will start to incompletely combust the fuel due to a lack of running hot enough and burning off the unburnt hydrocarbons.

To correct this situation, the generator should be run at nearly full load to warm up and burn off all the built-up soot buildup and unburnt fuel.

Running the generator at a high load for several hours will ensure that the combustion process in the engine is optimal and will extend the durability of the engine."

I always added a fuel additive to the MH and was sure to exercise the generator on a regular basis. On portable generators, I have 3, I always turn the fuel off while the engine is running and let them run out of fuel. No sticky carburetors that way.
The old school fuel additives do not work as well as some of the new ones marketed today.

I try to add Seafoam every time. Some hook up fuel line to a can with lots of seafoam added to gas and run it like that to clear the gunk. I do not like gas generators and cant wait until I sell this one. My cheap backup propane generator meets my emergency needs and doesnt need to be exercised, according to manufacturer (my regular needs are met by a cheap solar panel). This one solar panel charges all my electronics, blender, lithium batteries for my power tools, vacuum cleaner, recharges house battery just fine, the rest of my stuff operates off propane and I dont need A/C

[opnspaces]

mountaintraveler wrote:

I had run it from sea level to around 8000ft. My manual says that running it with higher altitude setting at low altitude will damage the generator. Not sure about the other way, but its supposed to sputter, surge, run poorly if altitude is high and isn't set in the generator. May be its not noticeable with newer generator in top shape.

This is how the above works. Your generator needs a mixture of fuel and air in the correct ratio of air to fuel to work properly (14.7 parts of air to 1 part of fuel is correct).

Say you set that mixture at sea level. Now when you go up to 8,000 feet there is less air. So if you make no changes then you might have 8 parts of air to 1 part of fuel. (that ratio is completely made up but the point is still valid). There ratio has too much fuel and not enough air. That is known as a rich condition which can cause sputter surge and loss of power. But it doesn't destroy the engine.

However, if you are at 8,000 feet elevation and you set your generator correctly so it has a 14:1 ratio everything is fine and your generator is happy. But when you go back to sea level there is a whole bunch more air. So you might now have a ratio of 20:1 (20 parts of air to each part of fuel) That is known as a lean condition and is very bad. When an engine is running lean it is running hot and can destroy itself in a short amount of time.

[klutchdust]

Something to think about if you own a generator.
"After a prolonged period of running without load, the engine will start to incompletely combust the fuel due to a lack of running hot enough and burning off the unburnt hydrocarbons.

To correct this situation, the generator should be run at nearly full load to warm up and burn off all the built-up soot buildup and unburnt fuel.

Running the generator at a high load for several hours will ensure that the combustion process in the engine is optimal and will extend the durability of the engine."

I always added a fuel additive to the MH and was sure to exercise the generator on a regular basis. On portable generators, I have 3, I always turn the fuel off while the engine is running and let them run out of fuel. No sticky carburetors that way.
The old school fuel additives do not work as well as some of the new ones marketed today.

[mountaintravele]

pnichols wrote:
If I was a bit younger and much richer, I think I'd consider this - 19'8" long and AWD - probably install a bit taller tires on it for more ground clearance, though:

https://pleasureway.com/models/ontour20/

By the way, its built on Ford Transit 250 which means little over 6 inches clearance, that's about the same as my class C. If I were richer I'd want some real offroad vehicle, a 4x4 raised truck with huge monster tires and fancy camper top, with over a foot of clearance.

[mountaintravele]

Glad I got class C, after all. All the excessive features are extra headache but cant beat the flush toilet, big water tank, the space and storage, it allowed me to comfortably boondock not staying in campgrounds for almost 9 months straight by now. I got good at finding remote isolated campsites where class C can get into and been camping miles away from nearest person for most of this time. Got to live in all kinds of natural environments where it'd be very uncomfortable without a good shelter. I just get out to some town once every 2-3 weeks to dump tanks and resupply, that's it (most places have 2 week camping limit anyway)

[mountaintravele]

pnichols wrote:
Ann Cat,

Hmmmm ... you mention regarding your Onan - "have to set altitude every time".

I've never adjusted the altitude setting on our built-in Onan generator regardless of what the manual may or may not say. It has always started right up and "run fine" at sea level or up in mountains. I wonder what the downsides of doing this were/are?

(However, from experience I know what goofing up and running an engine too lean, too long, can do to it. So I guess that my Onan may have only been run too rich on a lot of our motorhome trips.)

I had run it from sea level to around 8000ft. My manual says that running it with higher altitude setting at low altitude will damage the generator. Not sure about the other way, but its supposed to sputter, surge, run poorly if altitude is high and isn't set in the generator. May be its not noticeable with newer generator in top shape.

[pnichols]

Ann Cat,

Hmmmm ... you mention regarding your Onan - "have to set altitude every time".

I've never adjusted the altitude setting on our built-in Onan generator regardless of what the manual may or may not say. It has always started right up and "run fine" at sea level or up in mountains. I wonder what the downsides of doing this were/are?

(However, from experience I know what goofing up and running an engine too lean, too long, can do to it. So I guess that my Onan may have only been run too rich on a lot of our motorhome trips.)

[mountaintravele]

pnichols wrote:
If I was a bit younger and much richer, I think I'd consider this - 19'8" long and AWD - probably install a bit taller tires on it for more ground clearance, though:

https://pleasureway.com/models/ontour20/

LOL 180K!
I grew up in a world where most roads were dirt (deep dirt, the kind that sinks army tanks) and camping was simple and inexpensive activity, in rough norther climate.
Look what they did to this now...And these are rapidly depreciating assets, costing as much as a house that is going to only appreciate (while one spends equal amount of money on regular maintenance)
They're going to force electric vehicles pretty soon, I'm sure, what's going to become of the value of these overpriced vans...when it'll be hard and very expensive to buy any fuel.

Class C and many class Bs are overbuilt and have too many "amenities" I have no use for. I don't need entertainment system/TV, on-board generator, 2nd sink, big bed, oven, multiple stove burners (need one), microwave, outside shower, dinette, can do without A/C and 6 gallon water heater (1 gal heater is fine with me, with 6 gal I just waste propane).
So it'd make sense to build something I want on my own, with own hands as they charge insane money for builds, or gut a small trailer to make more storage space. But I won't travel after this last big trip as want to settle into small farming life.

I don't need a generator except for emergency, my cheap solar panel meets all my needs. I have to run Onan on board generator every couple of weeks to avoid clogged carburetor, which gives me headache as I hate fumes, noise and have to set new altitude every time and my altitude switch is finicky, got to change to summer oil, have to worry about fuel varnishing and fuel quality for that expensive, picky generator - and I have to run electric heater outside, heating the forest to load that generator properly! I prefer my cheap 2nd carry-on dual fuel Pulsar generator, one kind of oil for all weather, and I only use propane - no fuel rot, no mess or smell, no exercising it. On-board Onan seems to require convoluted procedure to prepare it for storage, much more than draining the carbureator, so can't just keep it shut down.

[pnichols]

If I was a bit younger and much richer, I think I'd consider this - 19'8" long and AWD - probably install a bit taller tires on it for more ground clearance, though:

https://pleasureway.com/models/ontour20/

[mountaintravele]

I've been having very good time, boondocking non-stop for a few months now.
Class C is too large for me, though, at 26' but it'd be the same at 24', as I can't get into many campsites or just have to let it be scratched some. It's not only ground clearance but also roof and side clearances, at 11.5 feet the roof is catching branches.
I carry a trimmer with long expandable pole to get rid of dry branches, National Forest Service does not maintain anything anymore, their goal is to have roads overgrown and closed to the public forever.

Class C does really well in the deserts with flatter terrain and in well-maintained public campgrounds. (I avoid campgrounds, and the only one time I stayed in one was exactly when I came close to an accident with the tree)

I think I'd want a high clearance setup with a truck + little trailer, because I've been having harder time getting into desirable campsites in the wooded mountains for the last 2 months (with putting more effort/driving an extra mile though I'm still always able to find campsites miles from anyone else, mostly) But boy trucks are expensive now, even used ones with a good mileage. Trucks are a total rip off and I won't give it to them. A truck that was 26K in 2022, was 36K in early 2023 and is 44K now. It's crazy. Used trucks seem to cost almost no less than brand new ones too. There's no price correction at all and from what I read it might not be coming. Trucks are severely overpriced. I kind of wish I bought a truck in 2022.

I bought my class C in very good condition with 13K miles on it for only 43K including the dealer prep fee. I probably would have to pay the same or more to buy a used truck alone, with much more mileage on it. Camper vans are also insanely priced, I just won't pay them these money, it doesn't make any sense. So I think I'll continue to boondock in my class C until the end of my trip and then sell it and head to live overseas. I'm thinking might trade in for a reasonably priced older B+ if I decide to boondock for the 2nd year (some of them seem to be better priced than class B/vans, go figure)

[mountaintravele]

pnichols wrote:

mountaintraveler wrote:

pnichols wrote:

Here's us driving out of a woods campsite alongside a river that has overflowed it's banks ... it probably takes a Ford or Chevy chassis under a Class C to provide this kind of stock ground clearance (we now have larger-than-stock-diameter tires on it for even more ground clearance):

That's very impressive, sounds like a good rig, I didn't know they could do crossings like that.
I got E450 Ford chassis. Cleareance isn't high, not much higher than my Toyota Camry, actually, because of just one certain low spot (exhaust manifold I think), plus generator exhaust pipe could be sitting higher. It's been very hard to buy a rig in good condition and low mileage, mine had low and gentle usage, was stored inside - I'm lucky to have found it - took me entire crazy adventure to get it out of Northeast during historic ice storm while towing my car behind it all night, never having towed anything before.
I constantly get compliments to my rig in random store parking lots, people want those rigs.

I'm being extra cautions and don't go anywhere where I have the slightest doubt about clearance. I did master very tight turns on narrow windy roads. I'm glad that I got class C, for me as a begginner is the best option overall. The tail starts sweeping up about halfway past the rear wheel. I just avoid questionable dips and the only time I tail-scraped, ironically, so far, was getting out of RV repair shop in Phoenix, AZ 3 months ago - !!
I carry roof shingles, rubber mats, shovel, carpet and 2x8 pieces in case I'd get stuck, also.
I managed to do all kinds of camping in low clearnace sedans over the last 15 years, so I know how to avoid problems.

I've been boondocking non-stop since mid-February, mostly in the deserts, trying to stick to flatter areas. In the real mountains, I guess can go to spots I already know about where I camped with a sedan, plus I use phone apps to find out non-high clearance spots. Apps are often not accurate, and I use topo and LIDAR maps to verify terrain.

Glad I didn't go over 26' - I was able to park in busy store parking lots and make turns to get out of bad roads, where a longer rig wouldn't be able to.

I've seen some camper vans for sale before I got my class C - it's awful to have to live in one, spaces are so tiny, except in summer when you can just tent-camp all the time and many of them don't have toilets or shower stall. A compact full-amenities trailer, may be "expedition" type trailer, with 4x4 truck would be the best option, I think, if I wanted to branch out into more off-roading.

In my earlier photo of us driving on a road that was flooded alongside a river - in our slideless E450 24 ft. Class C motorhome - was probably made safely possible not due to it's stock "ground clearance per se" that kept water out of the coach's floor area ... as the water was probably all around the differential, springs, driveshaft, shocks, etc..

What kept the coach dry was more likely the fact that our Class C was of a "basement" design: The coach floor starts about another 5-6 inches above the top of the E450's frame. This means that 1) there is a step-up from the cab floor to the coach floor, and 2) that the outside cabinets are quite tall, so as to provide good exterior storage volume.

The outside storage cabinets are all steel lined and have pretty solid rubber gasket sealed doors. A couple of the outside cabinets even have inclosed 5" tall storage areas starting at the top of their back walls that run laterally all the way across to the other side of the coach - in between the chassis frame and under the bottom of the coach flooring. This allows for outside, but still enclosed, storage of long items such as fishing poles and shovels.

FWIW, I'm a believer in increasing ground clearance via only using larger diameter tires - instead of keeping stock tires but then having the whole vehicle's structure being lifted above the axles ... which still leaves chassis running gear (differentials, driveshafts, shock ends, spring ends, etc.) exposed low to the ground.

I see. Mine is also of basement design though the seals probably would let the water into the lower compartments.
Luckily my coach can handle being flooded without damage if it can dry quickly, because of the design of the floor, drain holes and no insulation underheath.

[pnichols]

mountaintraveler wrote:

pnichols wrote:

Here's us driving out of a woods campsite alongside a river that has overflowed it's banks ... it probably takes a Ford or Chevy chassis under a Class C to provide this kind of stock ground clearance (we now have larger-than-stock-diameter tires on it for even more ground clearance):

That's very impressive, sounds like a good rig, I didn't know they could do crossings like that.
I got E450 Ford chassis. Cleareance isn't high, not much higher than my Toyota Camry, actually, because of just one certain low spot (exhaust manifold I think), plus generator exhaust pipe could be sitting higher. It's been very hard to buy a rig in good condition and low mileage, mine had low and gentle usage, was stored inside - I'm lucky to have found it - took me entire crazy adventure to get it out of Northeast during historic ice storm while towing my car behind it all night, never having towed anything before.
I constantly get compliments to my rig in random store parking lots, people want those rigs.

I'm being extra cautions and don't go anywhere where I have the slightest doubt about clearance. I did master very tight turns on narrow windy roads. I'm glad that I got class C, for me as a begginner is the best option overall. The tail starts sweeping up about halfway past the rear wheel. I just avoid questionable dips and the only time I tail-scraped, ironically, so far, was getting out of RV repair shop in Phoenix, AZ 3 months ago - !!
I carry roof shingles, rubber mats, shovel, carpet and 2x8 pieces in case I'd get stuck, also.
I managed to do all kinds of camping in low clearnace sedans over the last 15 years, so I know how to avoid problems.

I've been boondocking non-stop since mid-February, mostly in the deserts, trying to stick to flatter areas. In the real mountains, I guess can go to spots I already know about where I camped with a sedan, plus I use phone apps to find out non-high clearance spots. Apps are often not accurate, and I use topo and LIDAR maps to verify terrain.

Glad I didn't go over 26' - I was able to park in busy store parking lots and make turns to get out of bad roads, where a longer rig wouldn't be able to.

I've seen some camper vans for sale before I got my class C - it's awful to have to live in one, spaces are so tiny, except in summer when you can just tent-camp all the time and many of them don't have toilets or shower stall. A compact full-amenities trailer, may be "expedition" type trailer, with 4x4 truck would be the best option, I think, if I wanted to branch out into more off-roading.

In my earlier photo of us driving on a road that was flooded alongside a river - in our slideless E450 24 ft. Class C motorhome - was probably made safely possible not due to it's stock "ground clearance per se" that kept water out of the coach's floor area ... as the water was probably all around the differential, springs, driveshaft, shocks, etc..

What kept the coach dry was more likely the fact that our Class C was of a "basement" design: The coach floor starts about another 5-6 inches above the top of the E450's frame. This means that 1) there is a step-up from the cab floor to the coach floor, and 2) that the outside cabinets are quite tall, so as to provide good exterior storage volume.

The outside storage cabinets are all steel lined and have pretty solid rubber gasket sealed doors. A couple of the outside cabinets even have inclosed 5" tall storage areas starting at the top of their back walls that run laterally all the way across to the other side of the coach - in between the chassis frame and under the bottom of the coach flooring. This allows for outside, but still enclosed, storage of long items such as fishing poles and shovels.

FWIW, I'm a believer in increasing ground clearance via only using larger diameter tires - instead of keeping stock tires but then having the whole vehicle's structure being lifted above the axles ... which still leaves chassis running gear (differentials, driveshafts, shock ends, spring ends, etc.) exposed low to the ground.