blt2ski
Kirkland, Wa
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FishOnOne wrote:I know a lot of farmers/ranchers who used to drive nothing but 3/4 ton trucks and got tired of getting beat driving off road and switched to 1/2 trucks.
Probably because those 25 series trucks are heavier tate, stronger than the pre 2000 or so DW 35 series trucks. Many, myself included would be very happy to have a typical 25 with gvwr's in the 8600-9200 relm. IR a 6000-6400 RAWR, 4500&5000 front. You could put the 3.5 evo boost, or the 2.5 turbo 4 cylinder, smaller V6 diesels and folks would be happy.
Not ALL of us need 400-500HP motors driving empty or with up to 10-12k lb trailers.
Marty
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d1h
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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blt2ski wrote:
Not ALL of us need 400-500HP motors driving empty or with up to 10-12k lb trailers.
Marty
"Need" is always a bit ambiguous. "Want", "convenient", "duty cycle" all come into play.
Whereas you may be good hauling a "big" trailer around town with your new Silvy and while it likely gets up to speed as needed when you hit the 405 for a few miles and would even get you over the passes, albeit slowly.
That's not something everyone can live with.
And back to the OP, he's already wringing out about as much value out of a tow rig as practical, to the chagrin of some of the weight police here, even.
And it's the 21st century. Just like none of us would really like to pull our campers with a 1970s truck with roll your own windows, a bench seat that feels like a piece of plywood with a throw pillow on it, with all 200 screaming horses puttin it down through a 3 speed trans, noone really want's to pull 9500lbs with a 300hp V6 either. Especially if it involves racking up some real windshield miles.
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blt2ski
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Grit
You should use the whole quote to get context of what I am saying. Not everyone needs a 12-13k gvwr SW truck, be it a 25 or 35 series badge with 400-500 HP.
The OP, fish's neaghbors, myself, need a bit more truck than a typical 15 series at up to 7200 gvw. That's where a modern 8 lug 8600-9200 gvwr rig with 3000+- lbs of payload comes into play. A 250-350hp motor's I mentioned, get decent mileage empty, ride smooth, can pull an ave size RV st 10k 5w and upwards of 15k ball mount.....this truck does not exist anymore. I consider bad, some may consider it good.....
If Frod would build more of it 8200?!?! G wr f150's I think many more than does would sell. If I could have found one, that would be better than my GM1500. Reality, with the 1800 lb tear helper I put on my truck, I'm better off.
My 02.
Marty
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ksss
Eastern Idaho
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blt2ski wrote:Grit
You should use the whole quote to get context of what I am saying. Not everyone needs a 12-13k gvwr SW truck, be it a 25 or 35 series badge with 400-500 HP.
The OP, fish's neaghbors, myself, need a bit more truck than a typical 15 series at up to 7200 gvw. That's where a modern 8 lug 8600-9200 gvwr rig with 3000+- lbs of payload comes into play. A 250-350hp motor's I mentioned, get decent mileage empty, ride smooth, can pull an ave size RV st 10k 5w and upwards of 15k ball mount.....this truck does not exist anymore. I consider bad, some may consider it good.....
If Frod would build more of it 8200?!?! G wr f150's I think many more than does would sell. If I could have found one, that would be better than my GM1500. Reality, with the 1800 lb tear helper I put on my truck, I'm better off.
My 02.
Marty
On the surface, I have always agreed with this thought. However, the reality of it is these trucks when they have been released don't seem to do well enough to stick around. GM had the 1500 HD which didn't last. I think Nissan built their Titan around this principle. The diesel version had power specs identical to the GM LB7. HD undercarriage and so forth. Obviously now, the entire Titan line is going away. There were other issues with the Titan beyond its spec sheet but come to find out, most will just buy more truck, even if they only need a portion of its capacity. The price of the truck and the MPG in these trucks don't justify the reduced capacity. I have coined this before, but it fits here as well. "A lot can always do a little, but a little can never do a lot". When it comes to people actually signing on the line, this seems to ring true.
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FishOnOne
The Great State of Texas
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ksss wrote:blt2ski wrote:Grit
You should use the whole quote to get context of what I am saying. Not everyone needs a 12-13k gvwr SW truck, be it a 25 or 35 series badge with 400-500 HP.
The OP, fish's neaghbors, myself, need a bit more truck than a typical 15 series at up to 7200 gvw. That's where a modern 8 lug 8600-9200 gvwr rig with 3000+- lbs of payload comes into play. A 250-350hp motor's I mentioned, get decent mileage empty, ride smooth, can pull an ave size RV st 10k 5w and upwards of 15k ball mount.....this truck does not exist anymore. I consider bad, some may consider it good.....
If Frod would build more of it 8200?!?! G wr f150's I think many more than does would sell. If I could have found one, that would be better than my GM1500. Reality, with the 1800 lb tear helper I put on my truck, I'm better off.
My 02.
Marty
On the surface, I have always agreed with this thought. However, the reality of it is these trucks when they have been released don't seem to do well enough to stick around. GM had the 1500 HD which didn't last. I think Nissan built their Titan around this principle. The diesel version had power specs identical to the GM LB7. HD undercarriage and so forth. Obviously now, the entire Titan line is going away. There were other issues with the Titan beyond its spec sheet but come to find out, most will just buy more truck, even if they only need a portion of its capacity. The price of the truck and the MPG in these trucks don't justify the reduced capacity. I have coined this before, but it fits here as well. "A lot can always do a little, but a little can never do a lot". When it comes to people actually signing on the line, this seems to ring true.
And a lot of people buy a truck for something they may or may not do and usually ends up may not do.
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blt2ski
Kirkland, Wa
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Ksss
I wouldn't have bought a 1500hd back the either. A 2500 had a 9200 gvw, 3500 a 9900 gvwr.
Better options.
Today you go from a 7200 1500, to a greater than 10,000 gvw 25/35 series 8 lug SW truck. That basic 25 series 8600-9200 gvw truck is not sold today! GM should lighten up per say it's 2500 to below a factory 10,000 rating.
Not disCUSSing the Titan. Bad design from the get go.
I've owned 5 or 6 GMs as described in the 8600-9200 relm. I'd buy one tomorrow if I could get one.
Marty
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ksss
Eastern Idaho
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I guess what is the benefit of the reduced rating? Same truck, same power, maybe a slightly reduced price, but it would never be enough to mean much. Yes the Titan had a lot going wrong with it, but it was designed as a heavy half ton. I guess the under 10K would make the lines more defined between 25 and 3500, but other than that it really doesn't add up to much difference.
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blt2ski
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In the past, the weight differences were maybe 200 lbs of tare for a given chassis. Todays 25 series trucks are 1500 or so heavier base weight! Reality, manufactures have had to up the springs axles, brakes etc into the next DOT weight classification to cover that weight. Along with bigger axles for the additional HP so things dont break.....this is good, but for a number of us, that extra frame, axle, weight etc, does not do someone that needs a bit more than my 1500 has at 7200 lbs. Legally I'm at 8000, same as my 400 lbs lighter 8lug C2500 reg cab I had. my 88 ext cab was just under 6000 lbs empty, today a reg cab is over 6000 lbs empty.....the reg cabs both have about 4000 lbs of payload for a 25 series truck. My 96 crew cab with an 8' bed weighed 6600, my 05 dually CC was 7300. A CC SW short bed pulled into a fuel station next to me, the fellow said his truck empty was 8400 lbs! Yeah his gvwr was on par with my dually at 11500, he still had 1000 lbs less payload! per door sticker mind you.
A 1500HD equal today if you can get one with ALL the cab and 6.5 or 8' bed, weighting in at 6000 lbs empty, 8600-9200 gvwr, granted a 6000-6400 graw vs todays 7500....license like I would here in Wa st, at 10K, I've got 3500 to 4000 lbs of legal payload. My 1500 is at 8000, about 2800 legal payload, same as I did with the C2500....not over 8000 enough with either to pay for 10K plates.....
The tital with a 5K grawr was the killer, and the MPG with the diesel was on par with most SB gas rigs, with similar power, so the $3-4K extra cost was not doing anything. An 8600 gvwr rig as I am describing, put the 6cyl diesel that litphil has in his 1500, with a 10.5" FF ra, 6000 grawr, 3.73 gears, 10 sp, 25-30 mph empty, ability to carry 3000-3500 lbs, pull a 10K trailer.....
That DOT clas 2b 8401-10,000 gvwr rig does not exist any more! Every thing is a class 3 10,001-13500 Class 3! my 1500 technically is a class 2a 6001-8400! Not sure a true 15 series under 6000 gvwr in a full size exhists any more.....
Should probably get off my soap box.......
Marty
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ls1mike
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blt2ski wrote:Ksss
I wouldn't have bought a 1500hd back the either. A 2500 had a 9200 gvw, 3500 a 9900 gvwr. Better options.
Today you go from a 7200 1500, to a greater than 10,000 gvw 25/35 series 8 lug SW truck. That basic 25 series 8600-9200 gvw truck is not sold today! GM should lighten up per say it's 2500 to below a factory 10,000 rating.
Not disCUSSing the Titan. Bad design from the get go.
I've owned 5 or 6 GMs as described in the 8600-9200 relm. I'd buy one tomorrow if I could get one.
Marty
Marty just out curiosity why not a 1500HD or 2500 (not a 2500HD).
The 1500HD was the crew cab version of the 2500 same stuff. My Brother in law has a 1999 GMC 2500 with 6.0 and 8600 GVW. It is a solid truck at 240,000 miles.
The 1500HD and 2500 are both 8600 gvw trucks, with the 9.5 inch semi floater American axle. 8 lugger, frame is different from the cab back as compared to a half ton. That type of tuck was available from 1999 to 2007.
My old 02 6.0 2500HD was a 9200 gvw truck.
Mike
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