Cooling external fuel pump

[MrWizard]

Kicking around the idea, of mounting a Peltier solid state cooling unit , on the external fuel pump mod.
The pump failed Monday afternoon and left me broke down, this pump was less than a year old (replacement pump was was a warranty exchange), not near the exhaust or anything hot, except for the street!

I'm thinking Filing-Grinding to shape the cooling fins of the Peltier unit to fit the curve of pump body, mount with epoxy, JB weld, or hose clamp as mounting strap.
Wire IT to the pump terminals so it is powered and cooling when ever the engine is running

Anybody else ever try this
What do you think

[pianotuna]

Hi Chum lee,

I've never run out of fuel and have only seen the low fuel light twice since 2009 when I bought the E-450.

The things I don't know would fill many books!!

[Chum_lee]

pianotuna wrote:

Chum lee wrote:
Changing the design, IMO, is opening a can of worms. (chances are you will lose that bet) Your choice.

Chum lee

Thank you for the excellent education.

No problem. If you'll notice in your E450, . . . as soon as you run out of fuel, the engine stops, then the fuel pump relay cuts out the fuel pump. That's not an engineering accident.

No advice here, but IMO, it's best not to run low/out on fuel.

Chum lee

[pianotuna]

Chum lee wrote:
Changing the design, IMO, is opening a can of worms. (chances are you will lose that bet) Your choice.

Chum lee

Thank you for the excellent education.

[pianotuna]

theoldwizard1 wrote:
Fuel pumps are generally cooled by the fuel unless mounted close to the exhaust.

Does that mean running low on fuel is a problem for cooling the pump? I've not run my tank dry--but I have on occasion seen the low fuel light. I'd prefer to not damage what I have, given my beer budget.

[Chum_lee]

pianotuna wrote:

Chum lee wrote:

MrWizard wrote:

The pump failed Monday afternoon and left me broke down, this pump was less than a year old (replacement pump was was a warranty exchange), not near the exhaust or anything hot, except for the street!

Anybody else ever try this

What do you think

Here's what I think.

Just a few questions for you. Why do you think the engineers at Ford (after building 100,000's of vehicles like yours (over 100 years) made the engineering decisions that they did? (submersing the main fuel injection pump in the fuel tank (IMO, using fuel for cooling purposes))

I suspect that MrWizard inherited this "condition" from the previous owner.

How about offering a solution other than putting a pump back in the tank?

How is that even done? If a new tank and pump are needed it may cost a pretty penny.

A new fuel tank, or dropping, cleaning the existing tank in a Class A F53, IS labor intensive/expensive, . . . . but possible.

Just a few thoughts from the mind of an unpaid 67 year old retired experienced engineer. I know "a little bit" about pumps. That said, I have no idea if Mr. Wizard (or anyone else) pulled the old failed fuel pump out of the existing fuel tank, (I doubt it) what went wrong with it, or what the fuel tank pump inlet, or interior condition looks like. I can tell you from years of direct personal experience with rotary cell/turbine submersible fuel pumps that that they are designed to have a slightly positive inlet pressure. NOT A PARTIAL VACUUM which can create flow instability, cavitation, overheating, etc. If the original failed fuel pump is still in place, or the fuel tank vent(s) or primary fuel filter/sock (if it exists) is (partially) blocked, that will be the case and the new (auxiliary) pump will work harder than it was designed to do, leading to current overload, overheating, and premature failure(s).

I DON'T KNOW, I'm guessing here (trying to be helpful) with little to no initial background/photos information. I'm not pretending like I know. My initial instinct (based on 5 years of automotive technical training, 5 years of automotive/machine shop experience, 5 years of engineering school (graduating with highest honors) (the rest is direct field experience)) is NOT to put a Bandaid over a Bandaid. FIX THE PROBLEM. Sorry it's not the answer "you" guys want to hear. Do what you want.

Yes, I agree, there are plenty of parts suppliers out there. IMO, for critical needed parts your best bet is at the Ford dealer or certified OEM parts suppliers.

Changing the design, IMO, is opening a can of worms. (chances are, as the new design team engineer, you will lose that bet) Your choice.

Chum lee

[Heisenberg]

A nice flat spot on the pump and an old cpu heatsink preferably copper. No fan needed. Copper is a superior conductor of heat as to aluminum. And they do have water cooled cpu heat sinks.

[pianotuna]

Chum lee wrote:

MrWizard wrote:

The pump failed Monday afternoon and left me broke down, this pump was less than a year old (replacement pump was was a warranty exchange), not near the exhaust or anything hot, except for the street!

Anybody else ever try this

What do you think

Here's what I think.

Just a few questions for you. Why do you think the engineers at Ford (after building 100,000's of vehicles like yours (over 100 years) made the engineering decisions that they did? (submersing the main fuel injection pump in the fuel tank (IMO, using fuel for cooling purposes))

I suspect that MrWizard inherited this "condition" from the previous owner.

How about offering a solution other than putting a pump back in the tank?

How is that even done? If a new tank and pump are needed it may cost a pretty penny.

[theoldwizard1]

Fuel pumps are generally cooled by the fuel unless mounted close to the exhaust.

[Nick-B]

One of the problems I'm observing with fuel pumps and replacement parts in general is the lack of real quality control. Even brands that used to be well regarded have outsourced their production to low cost factories that have little regard for anything beyond "it fits", maybe. So we are left with a choice between cheap garbage with no name and expensive garbage with a formerly trusted brand name and it all comes from the same place with no real choice.

It failed because its garbage. Chum Lee is right, in part. Replace the in tank pump but be smart and have an external, in-line pump at the ready for when it fails. OEM means nothing anymore.

[Gooma]

x2

[Chum_lee]

MrWizard wrote:

The pump failed Monday afternoon and left me broke down, this pump was less than a year old (replacement pump was was a warranty exchange), not near the exhaust or anything hot, except for the street!

Anybody else ever try this

What do you think

Here's what I think.

Just a few questions for you. Why do you think the engineers at Ford (after building 100,000's of vehicles like yours (over 100 years) made the engineering decisions that they did? (submersing the main fuel injection pump in the fuel tank (IMO, using fuel for cooling purposes))

You, (IMO, for economy and ease of installation) have decided to change that.

Now, for reasons that you mention, have had multiple recent fuel pump failures with YOUR designs on your 1997 F53 chassis which left you stranded.

Maybe I'm the dummy here, but, . . . . my suggestion would be to put the vehicle back to the way it originally came from the factory using (OEM) factory parts. After all, . . . . how many years did it last before YOU . . . . . "fixed" it?

Chum lee

[MrWizard]

Don yes on the thermal paste,
If I use a clamping strap to hold it in place,
There is and industrial epoxy that is used to hold heating elements (like those used in rv fridge, in some types of Mfg machinery, it sets
Up cold, no heat, ivory white in color, and transfers heat from heating element to metal it's mounted in, but I don't have any and I don't remember the product name,
Replacing the burned out heating elements in machines used to plastic weld the ends on some plastic fuel cell canisters, the company was mfg the empty canisters, that were shipped out to be labeled and filled

Any way, this is just background info that products exist have bonding ability and heat transfer, and not be a thermal transfer barrier

[pianotuna]

Hi MrWizard,

Use the paste from what is used on the CPU chip of a computer. I think a massive aluminum heat sink would work well.

[PastorCharlie]

Low pressure causes vapor lock on hot fuel lines. Even new fuel pumps can and do sometimes fail to have proper fuel pressure to prevent vapor lock. It is best to address the problem and not jury rig the system.