Factory Floor Repair at Keystone

[kfp673]

Hello All,

Just sharing an evolving story to see if anyone has experience. We have a 2018 Keystone Outback and started noticing a soft spot on the floor directly in front of our stove/oven area. The weird part is 1- we have been paying to have the dealer complete a pressurized leak check each year which it passed perfectly showing no signs of leak and 2- the spot is along the edge where the floor meets the kitchen slide and is in the middle of the slide, and there are no soft spots around that said area. So the water if leaking down a wall would have to come down the wall and make a turn to this spot without damaging anything else along the way.
Not sure if that made sense, but at least to me that limits the damage to something that has happened from the underside (which is sealed and visibly appears tight). The dealer did some digging and did see it was wet and was as perplexed as I am trying to figure out where the water came from. Anyway, I got a call from Keystone today saying they are going to fully cover the repair but they want to do it at the factory. They will be covering all charges including transportation from PA to IN.

I'll update as I hear more, but I am curious if anyone has every had a factory repair done, and what your experience has been.

Thanks all!

[Duane4238]

This whole foam core thing is interesting and new to me. I have a 2011
springdale 311RE that I bought from a local dealer. It was originally owned by one of the service dept employees and taken well care of or so I thought. Didn't notice until they delivered the unit, but the floor in front of the stove and sink is lower than the surrounding floor. It also seems much softer. I guess when I finally decide to replace the vinyl flooring, which is only in the kitchen area, I'll put in marine or pressure treated plywood under the new vinyl. I can live with it, though, as I'm the only one who uses the trailer which is at my hunting camp.
Duane

[GDS-3950BH]

covered wagon wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:

covered wagon wrote:
Sorry for my rash statement, but your supposed to have plywood over the foam insulation.

How thick do you think it is? Maybe 3/16 of an inch?

Plywood thickness depends on what joist spacing you have. Buying plywood versus OSB is such a negligible cost increase when considering the much lower quality and problems associated with OSB.

Tell that to Thor and Forest River, as laminated floors used in RVs may have what they consider joists as far apart as 4-5 feet, the same as in laminated walls. I've drilled through 5 or 6 over the years and all had 3/16" luan on top and 1/8" luan on the bottom of the lamination.

[covered_wagon]

Lynnmor wrote:

covered wagon wrote:
Sorry for my rash statement, but your supposed to have plywood over the foam insulation.

How thick do you think it is? Maybe 3/16 of an inch?

Plywood thickness depends on what joist spacing you have. Buying plywood versus OSB is such a negligible cost increase when considering the much lower quality and problems associated with OSB.

[Lynnmor]

covered wagon wrote:
Sorry for my rash statement, but your supposed to have plywood over the foam insulation.

How thick do you think it is? Maybe 3/16 of an inch?

[covered_wagon]

Sorry for my rash statement, but your supposed to have plywood over the foam insulation.

[kfp673]

Thanks all. Appreciate the feedback. One point to note is that the dealer did say they found the sub floor wet. So while I have heard about foam floors getting soft, the rest of the trailer (37') is rock solid. It is a very specific spot. I suspect they did a poor job of isolating it from water being thrown up when towing in rain. That said, and as many of you pointed out, I also suspect they have seen this before and know what the issue is. I pushed hard on my dealers service department to advocate for us and it sounds like they must have done that, but I was as shocked as you all when they called me and said they want to cover it. I have already had them deny a handful of claims so I was fully prepared for "You did not maintain the trailer properly" reply.

Thanks again all

[ken56]

You must have a wonderful dealer to have gotten Keystone to fix it. I have a 2017 Laredo and it has the same problem. Foam core floor is getting soft and my efforts with Keystone have not gone anywhere. They certainly know there is a problem but they refuse to offer a factory fix for these defective floors because they know it is a huge problem. They could open a whole repair facility to do just this repair because it is so prevalent. Good luck to you.

[Gdfournier]

Did you ever get a fix on your floors? We just took our 2017 Cougar and had it looked at for the same issue. Repair shop said it can’t be fixed!

[Gdfournier]

We have a 2017 cougar, doing the same thing! Did you ever find a fix? 

[kellem]

Cecilt wrote:
Very interesting. We have a 2014 Keystone Outback with a kitchen slide(stove and refrigerator), an island with the sink in front and a backside slide that is 19' long by 36". The entire floor when you retract the kitchen slide has progressively gotten soft. We did a water test and did not find water. Under the sink(island) the flooring is solid. Getting soft areas in front of the island between the island the very large single slide as well.

Conclusion is the foam has broken down. Too much weight with the refrigerator and stove constantly going over the floor. In addition, not enough lateral support between joists. You can almost tell where one support is and it is almost 4' apart from the next.

It really ticks me off as when it it time to sell it will be very hard as someone will think water damage or just not want to deal with a soft floor on an otherwise TT that looks 6 months old inside and out due to how I treat and take care of this unit.

I never tried to go after Keystone since I am so far out of warranty but maybe there is hope. Doubt it though.

Keystone may have rectified that issue as our 2020 Outback has the aluminum floor joists on 18" centers.

[Cecilt]

Very interesting. We have a 2014 Keystone Outback with a kitchen slide(stove and refrigerator), an island with the sink in front and a backside slide that is 19' long by 36". The entire floor when you retract the kitchen slide has progressively gotten soft. We did a water test and did not find water. Under the sink(island) the flooring is solid. Getting soft areas in front of the island between the island the very large single slide as well.

Conclusion is the foam has broken down. Too much weight with the refrigerator and stove constantly going over the floor. In addition, not enough lateral support between joists. You can almost tell where one support is and it is almost 4' apart from the next.

It really ticks me off as when it it time to sell it will be very hard as someone will think water damage or just not want to deal with a soft floor on an otherwise TT that looks 6 months old inside and out due to how I treat and take care of this unit.

I never tried to go after Keystone since I am so far out of warranty but maybe there is hope. Doubt it though.

[Gdfournier]

Any resolution on your floors, we have the same issue with our 2017 Cougar. Wish there was a class action lawsuit!

[colliehauler]

GDS-3950BH wrote:

kellem wrote:
Yep, foam flooring.

It's actually used by several manufacturers in 4-season trailers for it's insulation value.

Problem is, over time can show travel wear which is exasperated by occupants body weight.....yes it actually has a weight limit that's not disclosed.

Our last 2 trailers were foam flooring without issues but we tippy toe.

Its actually used in 75% or more of trailers, most advertised or claimed to be lightweight, 4 season has little to do with it.

The foam compresses or loses its bond to the thin plywood resulting in the soft area and flexing. Add to that some manufacturers use a minimal number of aluminum tube in the assembly which may be as far apart as 4' on center or further.

Keystone does not vacuum bond those panels, they use a pinch rolling system, two different processes and vacuum bonding is much better. Even the manufacturers who vacuum bond have issues. Some Forest River brands such as Rockwood/Flagstaff have recently went back to plywood/OSB floors due to the number of issues. Its common with laminated floors.

Unless they completly disassemble the trailer and replace the entire floor, any repair will be cobbled together. Even then, if they replace the bad floor with the same type of assembly, chances are it will happen again.

I bought a new ultralight and after a one week vacation traded it in on a new conventional floor trailer when I got back. The floor felt spongy from the beginning and I figured it would only get worse. A decision I've never regretted.

[kellem]

MFL wrote:

kellem wrote:
Somewhat reluctant to post this but......buyer beware regarding foam floors.

My sister's best friend bought a brand new trailer last year, she's a rather robust lady in stature and went completely through the floor and was held hostage until help arrived.....true story.

I'll only add, it wasn't Keystone.

I know you said reluctant to post, but a pic of this event would be great!

Jerry

We think alike.