sway bar instructions

[Terryallan]

Have any of you read as I have the sway bar instructions? Especially the part about NOT using the sway bar in the rain? HINT. It really means what it says. It CAN cause the TV to go straight in a turn. Want to know how I know????

Thursday as we hooked up to come home it was raining, and I thought about the instructions, but put it on any way. ( my TT doesn't sway with out the bar). So I put it on anyway. and had O problems until I went to turn into a driveway. Yes I slowed way down, But as I turned, the front tires started sliding. The truck did NOT want to turn. But it finally caught and I went into the driveway. Scared me some as we were still in the mountains and there was a pretty good drop beside the driveway.

Anyway. moral of the story. There is just barley a chance the manufacturers know what they are talking about when they write the instructions. And it is required that your TT be setup correctly and not sway, even with out the sway bar.

[JIMNLIN]

I have an Equal-I-zer with 4 point sway control which uses friction at 4 points to address any sway issues. I do not understand how the effect of the systems are different. In other words, how can one system using friction be safe in slippery conditions, and another not? Since they both work to keep the trailer and the truck in line using the same principle, how can they be different?

I use the Husky Centerline TS (trunion/friction bars) with 1200 lb bars on a 10k trailer with 8420 lbs on the trailers axles with the wifes 1500 crew cab chevy 4wd . I use the trailer/Husky on wet pavement/gravel roads/muddy worksites (no snow or ice) and have no issues making turns going forward or backward at any angle.
Husky only comment about wet/snowy/icey/gravel roads is slow down and don't make any sudden maneuvers.

We don't know how he has his hitch setup (axle weights/measurements).
We don't know the condition of his front tires.
Or what the tread type.
or tire pressures used.
or speeds...
Rear diffs locked ?...
other criteria..

[Terryallan]

canoe on top wrote:
Terryallen, 90 degrees is a pretty hard turn, Steep down hill would suggest that the front axle dropped. The rear axle would act as a fulcrum applying an unusual amount of leverage to your hitch bars. This would increase the amount of friction which may have affected your steering? Just a thought.

Good as any

[TomG2]

The only reason, and it is a valid one, to remove a friction type sway control when backing is that the angles can be so extreme as to cause damage. To a lesser degree is the possibility of it separating the components. All depends on whether the bar is in compression or tension.

[LarryJM]

ssthrd wrote:

TurnThePage wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:

TurnThePage wrote:


Me thinks that the mentioned issue/condition is strictly for the add-on friction sway bars and has nothing to do with all those popular and expensive hitches with anti-sway built in.

The condition is that sway mechanisms keep the truck and trailer in line. When the tire traction is not great enough to overcome the resistance of the sway mechanism, skidding when turning will result. It does not matter what brand, style or price point is involved.

Strictly speaking, I can't argue. I just don't think it's a thing with those "expensive" hitches, while there are various warnings when using the add-on anti-sway bar.

This is confusing-at least in my mind.....

I have an Equal-I-zer with 4 point sway control which uses friction at 4 points to address any sway issues. I do not understand how the effect of the systems are different. In other words, how can one system using friction be safe in slippery conditions, and another not? Since they both work to keep the trailer and the truck in line using the same principle, how can they be different?

An email from Equal-I-zer tells me that it is not an issue, but they gave no explanation about how their system works in any conditions, while others are not safe and should be removed.

Physics was always one of my best subjects, but I can't get my head around this one. Any engineers out there that can shed some light on this for me?

IMO the issue and difference between what we are calling the "Friction Bar" system and all the other integrated WDH/Sway systems is that the "Friction" system using common brake pad material clamped on each side against a metal bar. This system has a much higher coefficient of friction inititally plus when wet can basically "stick or grab" at times. While all the metal on metal systems might have a higher initial coefficient of friction it's not near as high as with the brake pad to metal situation in the "Friction" type systems. This issue is also again IMO why one has to be very careful or even remove/loosen the "Friction" system when backing since the extreme inital angles that can occur when starting to back up can be much more stressful on the Friction system than others non brake pad based systems. This is really critical when the trailer and TV are at an large angle where the bar is already pulled out and you suddenly have the TV wheels turned all the way in the other direction which will force the bar back into the stationary part of the system and start backing up too quickly. This "extreme" condition can actually "BEND" the metal slide bar.

All the above is admittedly just my opinion based on over 30 years of using a "Friction" type system and actually wearing as system out (i.e. one side of the brake material was worn down to where the side bar was making metal to metal contact where the brake material used to be)

Larry

[Vintage465]

Since 1981 I've towed with "lower rent" type W.D. lashups with friction type sway control always. And by lower rent I mean Eas-Lift, Valley Tow-Rite, Draw-Tite and Reese versions of the chain type snap ups and not the integrated sway. I've never read the instructions for my friction type sway control. Never thought I needed too. Everything said about the friction sway being tight enough to overcome the traction on the front tires of the tow rig makes sense. I will consider myself more educated today than I was yesterday. Mine is very adjustable(not "on or off")I will back mine off a 1/2 turn when towing in the rain and make further adjustments as needed. In recent years I've heard and read about not backing up with the sway control in place. I've always backed up with the friction type sway control on and never had an issue. Recently I pulled into a spot I had no business being, and literally tied the rig up in knots to get out and had no issues. It was good entertainment for all the onlookers though!

[canoe_on_top]

Not sure what kind of set up you have. Sounds like an external sway bar as opposed to integral WD anti sway like Equal-i-zer. I don't know if that kind of bar would be affected by the TV going up or down a steep incline? Sounds like an external, friction sway bar might have more effect on steering than a hitch with integrated sway control?

[canoe_on_top]

Terryallen, 90 degrees is a pretty hard turn, Steep down hill would suggest that the front axle dropped. The rear axle would act as a fulcrum applying an unusual amount of leverage to your hitch bars. This would increase the amount of friction which may have affected your steering? Just a thought.

[Terryallan]

afidel wrote:

ssthrd wrote:

TurnThePage wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:

TurnThePage wrote:


Me thinks that the mentioned issue/condition is strictly for the add-on friction sway bars and has nothing to do with all those popular and expensive hitches with anti-sway built in.

?

My guess is that while the Equalizer resists slipping, it will eventually slip, likely well before the truck is to lose traction. It's basically the same reason you have to take off a friction sway bar but don't have to remove the Equalizer when backing into a spot, you'll get the classic pop and groan but the bar will slip on the plate.

The real reason you are to remove the add on sway bar for backing, is because you can jack the trailer MORE when backing than going forward. That can cause the sway bar to overtravel, and either bottom out on the balls, or pull apart the other way. Really doesn't have anything to do with added force. But when it bottoms out. It can break the mounting balls off.

[afidel]

ssthrd wrote:

TurnThePage wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:

TurnThePage wrote:


Me thinks that the mentioned issue/condition is strictly for the add-on friction sway bars and has nothing to do with all those popular and expensive hitches with anti-sway built in.

The condition is that sway mechanisms keep the truck and trailer in line. When the tire traction is not great enough to overcome the resistance of the sway mechanism, skidding when turning will result. It does not matter what brand, style or price point is involved.

Strictly speaking, I can't argue. I just don't think it's a thing with those "expensive" hitches, while there are various warnings when using the add-on anti-sway bar.

This is confusing-at least in my mind.....

I have an Equal-I-zer with 4 point sway control which uses friction at 4 points to address any sway issues. I do not understand how the effect of the systems are different. In other words, how can one system using friction be safe in slippery conditions, and another not? Since they both work to keep the trailer and the truck in line using the same principle, how can they be different?

An email from Equal-I-zer tells me that it is not an issue, but they gave no explanation about how their system works in any conditions, while others are not safe and should be removed.

Physics was always one of my best subjects, but I can't get my head around this one. Any engineers out there that can shed some light on this for me?

My guess is that while the Equalizer resists slipping, it will eventually slip, likely well before the truck is to lose traction. It's basically the same reason you have to take off a friction sway bar but don't have to remove the Equalizer when backing into a spot, you'll get the classic pop and groan but the bar will slip on the plate.

[Terryallan]

From the Reese Sway bar instruction manual.
So there is the instructions. Hoax? BS? you decide. Not according to Reese. Reese says remove it in the rain, or slippery conditions.


4. When towing during slippery conditions such as wet, icy, or snow-covered roads or on loose gravel, turn on/off handle (5)
counterclockwise until all tension is removed from unit. Failure to do so could prevent tow vehicle and trailer from turning properly.

[Terryallan]

Lynnmor wrote:

Terryallan wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:
Then there are all those popular, expensive brands that can't be adjusted for slippery conditions.

You are simply not to use them in slippery conditions. your TT should not sway with out one. They are only for emergency situations.

Then all those folks with the popular, expensive brands need to get off the road at the first sign of inclement weather? Or do they need to remove all the weight distribution and then continue on?

No not WDH. Just the swaybar. The honest truth is. Your travel Trailer should NOT sway in normal driving WITH OUT a sway bar. If it does. You have serious problems. I have towed with out the sway bar. I have no sway.

[Terryallan]

canoe on top wrote:
If this was the first time in 20 years, I would guess that you towed in the rain before. Was there something different in your set up this time? Did you always remove the bars in the rain before?

Only thing I can think of is that I was making a 90 degree turn off the highway steeply down hill. And I can't remember doing that before. I guess everything just lined up to make it happen.

[Lynnmor]

ssthrd wrote:
Meaning?

I mean that you know what makes sense despite the nonsense being said about various sway mechanisms.

[ssthrd]

Sounds suspicious to me too, but with this thing you can't have one without the other. Sounds like I wasted a bunch of money if I plan to travel in all types of weather.