Ford running out of diesel engines

[Groover]

Production of the Powerstroke is down 50% due to Covid in Mexico.

Mexico issues

This could help explain the news on the F600.

[blofgren]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

blofgren wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

blofgren wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Sounds like they need to go back to the Cummins for the 650 and up.

Exactly. We just passed on ordering 3 new F750 dump trucks at my work in large part because of the Ford 6.7L being the only diesel engine available in them. We went with Freightliner M2's with the 6.7L Cummins. 🙂

Cummins welcomes you and your company to the CP4.2 world. Also your shop better switch over to 10W30 oil and not run the standard 15W40 that everybody and their brother runs.

Back in early March I was on a Ram/Jeep/Chrysler lot looking at a Wrangler and noticed that 50% of the RAM HD trucks were gas powered. If you only include SRW trucks they're were more Hemi's than Cummins powered trucks. I never in the history of looking at HD trucks have I seen so many gas engines in HD trucks. Later walked over to the Ford lot next door (same dealer) and they were all Power Strokes.

It would be interesting to know if the 6.7L Cummins in the heavier applications like the Freightliner M2 use the CP4. Anyone know? Shiner?

If they end up being a POS I won’t hesitate to post with that information.

With respect to the HD Rams being 50% gassers, that is definitely not the situation in my neck of the woods. I would estimate well over 95% of HD Rams here having the Cummins.

With respect to my work, we currently have a contract with Ford for supply of vehicles up to and including F550 but we don’t buy any diesels, they are all gas. Prior to about 2015 many of the HD Fords were diesel but there were too many expensive repairs that completely changed the philosophy of vehicle specs.

.

Interesting How the FISH is so informed on CTD and RAM.

:B

I just had a look at the website of the dealer I bought my truck from; they have 30-Ram 3500's in stock and every one of them is a CTD. 😉

[Cummins12V98]

blofgren wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

blofgren wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Sounds like they need to go back to the Cummins for the 650 and up.

Exactly. We just passed on ordering 3 new F750 dump trucks at my work in large part because of the Ford 6.7L being the only diesel engine available in them. We went with Freightliner M2's with the 6.7L Cummins. 🙂

Cummins welcomes you and your company to the CP4.2 world. Also your shop better switch over to 10W30 oil and not run the standard 15W40 that everybody and their brother runs.

Back in early March I was on a Ram/Jeep/Chrysler lot looking at a Wrangler and noticed that 50% of the RAM HD trucks were gas powered. If you only include SRW trucks they're were more Hemi's than Cummins powered trucks. I never in the history of looking at HD trucks have I seen so many gas engines in HD trucks. Later walked over to the Ford lot next door (same dealer) and they were all Power Strokes.

It would be interesting to know if the 6.7L Cummins in the heavier applications like the Freightliner M2 use the CP4. Anyone know? Shiner?

If they end up being a POS I won’t hesitate to post with that information.

With respect to the HD Rams being 50% gassers, that is definitely not the situation in my neck of the woods. I would estimate well over 95% of HD Rams here having the Cummins.

With respect to my work, we currently have a contract with Ford for supply of vehicles up to and including F550 but we don’t buy any diesels, they are all gas. Prior to about 2015 many of the HD Fords were diesel but there were too many expensive repairs that completely changed the philosophy of vehicle specs.

.

Interesting How the FISH is so informed on CTD and RAM.

[Cummins12V98]

FishOnOne wrote:

blofgren wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Sounds like they need to go back to the Cummins for the 650 and up.

Exactly. We just passed on ordering 3 new F750 dump trucks at my work in large part because of the Ford 6.7L being the only diesel engine available in them. We went with Freightliner M2's with the 6.7L Cummins. 🙂

Cummins welcomes you and your company to the CP4.2 world. Also your shop better switch over to 10W30 oil and not run the standard 15W40 that everybody and their brother runs.

Back in early March I was on a Ram/Jeep/Chrysler lot looking at a Wrangler and noticed that 50% of the RAM HD trucks were gas powered. If you only include SRW trucks they're were more Hemi's than Cummins powered trucks. I never in the history of looking at HD trucks have I seen so many gas engines in HD trucks. Later walked over to the Ford lot next door (same dealer) and they were all Power Strokes.

Cuz they weren’t selling any

[FishOnOne]

I just looked at the dealer inventory online for 2500/3500 and here's the mix:

Cummins: 8 trucks
Hemis: 3 trucks

It's clear the dealer inventory has dropped significantly since I was there.

[ShinerBock]

FishOnOne wrote:


Your scenario would be true if the lot was partially or somewhat empty, but it was full which tells me the dealer ordered the trucks this way for a reason. Like I said in the past this dealer lot used to be ~ 95% Cummins and ~ 5% Hemis, but now it's 50% Cummins and 50% Hemis.

FYI, in the light duty world, dealers are forced to take on inventory by the manufacturer. It happens in the medium/heavy duty world too, but not as much since most are speced to order.
Basically, the manufacturers makes a lot of trucks(X amount of gasers and Y amount of diesels) expecting a certain demand for each kind and forces dealers to take them to move inventory around.

It depends on the size of dealer and what kind of relationship/pull that they have with their manufacturer sales rep, but in many cases in order for a dealer to get X amount of inventory they want, they are forced to take in Y amount of inventory they don't want. It is all a negotiation and of course the dealership that sell more of a certain type of vehicle will have more leverage.

I remember when the Harley Davidson Super-duties first came out. The Ford dealer group(who only sold trucks) I was working for at the time really wanted to get their hands on a few of them, partly because the owner wanted one. We had to take in a bunch of inventory to get them. We actually had to lease property around town to park trucks because not all of inventory would fit on our lots. It was a bad deal, but the owner wanted one.

[FishOnOne]

Me Again wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

blofgren wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Sounds like they need to go back to the Cummins for the 650 and up.

Exactly. We just passed on ordering 3 new F750 dump trucks at my work in large part because of the Ford 6.7L being the only diesel engine available in them. We went with Freightliner M2's with the 6.7L Cummins. 🙂

Cummins welcomes you and your company to the CP4.2 world. Also your shop better switch over to 10W30 oil and not run the standard 15W40 that everybody and their brother runs.

Back in early March I was on a Ram/Jeep/Chrysler lot looking at a Wrangler and noticed that 50% of the RAM HD trucks were gas powered. If you only include SRW trucks they're were more Hemi's than Cummins powered trucks. I never in the history of looking at HD trucks have I seen so many gas engines in HD trucks. Later walked over to the Ford lot next door (same dealer) and they were all Power Strokes.

Well that just shows you, people are buying the RAM/Cummins off the dealers lots while the Ford/Powerstroke go wanting for a buyer.

To know this one would have to have access to the dealer purchases and sales. As what is setting on any one lot is meaningless.

Your scenario would be true if the lot was partially or somewhat empty, but it was full which tells me the dealer ordered the trucks this way for a reason. Like I said in the past this dealer lot used to be ~ 95% Cummins and ~ 5% Hemis, but now it's 50% Cummins and 50% Hemis.

[Me_Again]

FishOnOne wrote:

blofgren wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Sounds like they need to go back to the Cummins for the 650 and up.

Exactly. We just passed on ordering 3 new F750 dump trucks at my work in large part because of the Ford 6.7L being the only diesel engine available in them. We went with Freightliner M2's with the 6.7L Cummins. 🙂

Cummins welcomes you and your company to the CP4.2 world. Also your shop better switch over to 10W30 oil and not run the standard 15W40 that everybody and their brother runs.

Back in early March I was on a Ram/Jeep/Chrysler lot looking at a Wrangler and noticed that 50% of the RAM HD trucks were gas powered. If you only include SRW trucks they're were more Hemi's than Cummins powered trucks. I never in the history of looking at HD trucks have I seen so many gas engines in HD trucks. Later walked over to the Ford lot next door (same dealer) and they were all Power Strokes.

Well that just shows you, people are buying the RAM/Cummins off the dealers lots while the Ford/Powerstroke go wanting for a buyer.

To know this one would have to have access to the dealer purchases and sales. As what is setting on any one lot is meaningless.

[RoyJ]

ShinerBock wrote:
You are right about one thing here. Many don't "feel" that is cost effective but they don't actually know. I did the numbers myself calculating initial cost, finance charges, tax, registration, fuel cost, DEF, maintenance, trade in value at 100k and so on of my 2014 CTD versus a 6.4L Hemi of my year. I came out ahead with the diesel by about $700. This was just calculating unloaded mileage for each truck. This won't be the same for most because fuel cost and resale values differ from one region to the next.

However, I would wager that if everyone actually did the math, the total cost on the diesel for most (not all) would be within $2,000 +/- of the gas version at the end of the 5 year 100k mile warranty that currently comes with all of the diesels. Most gassers values start to tank after this. That is really not a lot of money over the 5 year period. I spent more upgrading my F150 to a 4wd with an Ecoboost engine over the base 2wd 3.7L back in 2012 and both of those things cost me more overtime because it got worse fuel mileage than the base 2wd 3.7L unlike my diesel that gets around 3 mpg better than the gas version(when it was stock).

Remember not everyone buys new - that huge depreciation of a gasser now works FOR you, not against you, when buying used.

I can find many pristine low mileage 6.4 / 5.7 trucks, 10 years old, for less than 1/2 of a Cummins truck. I have 5 vehicles, meaning my 1 ton gets 1000 - 2000 kms a year. I've owned everything from old Detroit Diesels to 8.3 ISCs, and for my use, diesels always cost more, not to mention wasteful to let such a heavy duty engine sit.

If you're buying a brand new top of the line pickup, putting on 10k+ miles on each year, then it'll be foolish to get a gas.

[pawatt]

Kampfirekid wrote:

wanderingbob wrote:
Initial cost sounds like a big deal until you go to sell your used diesel , A five year old diesel will bring you back $4500 or 5,000 more when you go to sell .

That’s great! You spent $10k on the diesel motor in the first place. Now you’re only $5,000 to $5,500 in the hole. 🙂

I’ve only logged about 2.75 million miles, mostly in Ford Powerstrokes, and with today’s prices and poor fuel economy, there is no way a diesel will pay for itself or return money to offset the costs over any gas counterpart unless you tow heavy daily.

For fun, i’m trying a 3.0L Stroke in an F150. I basically pulled a deal to get the truck where the Diesel engine was a pittance over the EcoBoost. At 25-28mpg, and diesel costing a solid 25 cents a gallon less than gas here, I’m not losing money, but I can’t say I’m laughing all the way to the bank... even at 40k+ miles a year (average, pre-Covid).

Had to give my 6.0 away about 8 years back, 70,000 miles and the dealer was going to send it to auction because no one wanted them.

[blofgren]

FishOnOne wrote:

blofgren wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Sounds like they need to go back to the Cummins for the 650 and up.

Exactly. We just passed on ordering 3 new F750 dump trucks at my work in large part because of the Ford 6.7L being the only diesel engine available in them. We went with Freightliner M2's with the 6.7L Cummins. 🙂

Cummins welcomes you and your company to the CP4.2 world. Also your shop better switch over to 10W30 oil and not run the standard 15W40 that everybody and their brother runs.

Back in early March I was on a Ram/Jeep/Chrysler lot looking at a Wrangler and noticed that 50% of the RAM HD trucks were gas powered. If you only include SRW trucks they're were more Hemi's than Cummins powered trucks. I never in the history of looking at HD trucks have I seen so many gas engines in HD trucks. Later walked over to the Ford lot next door (same dealer) and they were all Power Strokes.

It would be interesting to know if the 6.7L Cummins in the heavier applications like the Freightliner M2 use the CP4. Anyone know? Shiner?

If they end up being a POS I won’t hesitate to post with that information.

With respect to the HD Rams being 50% gassers, that is definitely not the situation in my neck of the woods. I would estimate well over 95% of HD Rams here having the Cummins.

With respect to my work, we currently have a contract with Ford for supply of vehicles up to and including F550 but we don’t buy any diesels, they are all gas. Prior to about 2015 many of the HD Fords were diesel but there were too many expensive repairs that completely changed the philosophy of vehicle specs.

[patperry2766]

Huntindog wrote:

patperry2766 wrote:
There is roughly a 1500 lb difference trailer weight wise between a 6.4 Hemi with a 4.10 and a 6.7 CTD with 3.42's per the 2018 info that I have.

What is the difference if they are both geared the same?

I doubt that the gas motor even has 3.42s available.....
And I can assure you that the diesel with 4.10s will embarrass the gas motor.

3.42's are the only option available in the 2500 & 3500 SRW CTD.
3.73 & 4.10 in the 6.4 Hemi.

6.4 Hemi 3.73 = 12,920 lbs
6.4 Hemi 4.10 = 15,920 lbs
6.7 CTD 3.42 = 17,480 lbs

There's pros & cons for each engine and for each consumer. What works for one person's needs might not be the same as another

[FishOnOne]

blofgren wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Sounds like they need to go back to the Cummins for the 650 and up.

Exactly. We just passed on ordering 3 new F750 dump trucks at my work in large part because of the Ford 6.7L being the only diesel engine available in them. We went with Freightliner M2's with the 6.7L Cummins. 🙂

Cummins welcomes you and your company to the CP4.2 world. Also your shop better switch over to 10W30 oil and not run the standard 15W40 that everybody and their brother runs.

Back in early March I was on a Ram/Jeep/Chrysler lot looking at a Wrangler and noticed that 50% of the RAM HD trucks were gas powered. If you only include SRW trucks they're were more Hemi's than Cummins powered trucks. I never in the history of looking at HD trucks have I seen so many gas engines in HD trucks. Later walked over to the Ford lot next door (same dealer) and they were all Power Strokes.

[Cummins12V98]

blofgren wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Sounds like they need to go back to the Cummins for the 650 and up.

Exactly. We just passed on ordering 3 new F750 dump trucks at my work in large part because of the Ford 6.7L being the only diesel engine available in them. We went with Freightliner M2's with the 6.7L Cummins. 🙂

Most or the new Ambulances and tow trucks are now Cummins powered.

[ShinerBock]

RoyJ wrote:
We all know diesels are better at heavy towing.

Problem is, 90% of HD pickups aren't towing when on the road. For some people, they don't feel it's cost effective to run / maintain / buy a diesel just for the 5 - 10% miles they do tow.

If your duty cycle warrants the expenses (not just initial purchase) then get a diesel. Or if you just want one, and have the cash, go for it. After all, no one needs a sportscar.

You are right about one thing here. Many don't "feel" that is cost effective but they don't actually know. I did the numbers myself calculating initial cost, finance charges, tax, registration, fuel cost, DEF, maintenance, trade in value at 100k and so on of my 2014 CTD versus a 6.4L Hemi of my year. I came out ahead with the diesel by about $700. This was just calculating unloaded mileage for each truck. This won't be the same for most because fuel cost and resale values differ from one region to the next.

However, I would wager that if everyone actually did the math, the total cost on the diesel for most (not all) would be within $2,000 +/- of the gas version at the end of the 5 year 100k mile warranty that currently comes with all of the diesels. Most gassers values start to tank after this. That is really not a lot of money over the 5 year period. I spent more upgrading my F150 to a 4wd with an Ecoboost engine over the base 2wd 3.7L back in 2012 and both of those things cost me more overtime because it got worse fuel mileage than the base 2wd 3.7L unlike my diesel that gets around 3 mpg better than the gas version(when it was stock).