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Doom for the RV industry???

azdryheat
Explorer
Explorer
Illinois top court ruled a couple CAN sue and get their money back plus damages from the sale of an RV with an undisclosed defect. Every RV sold has something wrong with it and if all buyers can sue....

LINK
2013 Chevy 3500HD CC dually
2014 Voltage 3600 toy hauler
2019 RZR 1000XP TRE
33 REPLIES 33

36guy
Explorer
Explorer
I think what gets me is the poor quality during the build process, most of it are very simple fixes to stop the warranty issues later down the line. My latest rv was near $50 thousand, and in no way compares to a 50 thousand dollar car. It should, in every way, take wiring for example, instead of making a loom and fastening it for quality, wires are strung loosely through the underbelly with no protection, look like hell and are easily damaged later. Cabinets are the same, my front closet wall is coming apart in a unit that is a year old, poor fit, no glue and stapled together. Generally, my unit is nice, but welds on the chassis are poor, two springs have gone flat, although the manufacturer has bent over backward to repair these issues, they should not happen in the first place, in general, I think the rv industry needs to put out better products that rarely see the repair dept of a dealership.

ghooos
Explorer
Explorer
I don,t see the doom, maybe now we,ll get some quality in the making of rv,s .remember the rust buckets the auto industry put out in the 70,s

ol_Bombero-JC
Explorer
Explorer
azdryheat wrote:
Illinois top court ruled a couple CAN sue and get their money back plus damages from the sale of an RV with an undisclosed defect. Every RV sold has something wrong with it and if all buyers can sue....

LINK


Interesting article.

However - "Doom & Gloom"? - doubt the RV industry will believe the sky is falling..:R

Anybody can sue anybody for anything.

We live in a litigious society.

Unless it's a lawsuit that benefits the attorneys (personal injury, etc.), the person bringing the lawsuit better have VERY, VERY DEEP pockets!!...:S

RV mfgrs ALL have legal counsel on the "ready line" - part of doing business - (and.....the buyers are already paying for it).

~

colliehauler
Explorer
Explorer
azdryheat wrote:
So many RV problems could be avoided by oversight during manufacture. My trailer had metal tape installed in the A/C duct before any of the sawdust was removed. Obviously the tape failed. Where was supervision?
((Where was the supervision)) Busy telling them to get the dang thing out the door so they can go home. Get quota done and you can leave early. Not conducive to building a quality RV.

azdryheat
Explorer
Explorer
So many RV problems could be avoided by oversight during manufacture. My trailer had metal tape installed in the A/C duct before any of the sawdust was removed. Obviously the tape failed. Where was supervision?
2013 Chevy 3500HD CC dually
2014 Voltage 3600 toy hauler
2019 RZR 1000XP TRE

Crowe
Explorer
Explorer
Or the manufacturers could make sure their products are built well in the first place.
Why is that so hard to do?


Some will still slip through. And the law can easily be abused. Precedent can be a dangerous thing.

I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be

Douglas Adams

[purple]RV-less for now but our spirits are still on the open road. [/purple]

JimK-NY
Explorer II
Explorer II
jplante4 wrote:
free radical wrote:
Or the manufacturers could make sure their products are built well in the first place.
Why is that so hard to do?


Because no one will be able to afford to buy your product. You can get a well built coach right now... from Marathon, Liberty, Country Coach etc. Just bring your checkbook.


I disagree. I doubt it takes much more to build a quality product. Maybe just a few percent that the buyer would hardly notice. When I was starting out, I was lucky enough to find a reliable, long term dealer who steered me to picking a well made unit from a smaller builder. With the exception of a quirk or two, I got a well made RV at the same price I would have paid for a mass produced unit.

WVcampground
Explorer
Explorer
theoldwizard1 wrote:
valhalla360 wrote:
Sounds like they were yanked around and it literally took an excessive amount of time to address.

Similar to automobiles, if they fix things in a timely manner, it's not covered by lemon laws but if it gets crazy, it is.

Lemon laws vary state to state, but in general, factory representatives (dealers) are given a certain number of attempts to repair an issue. Also there is a limited number of days that the vehicle can be away from the customer. If either are exceeded, it is a "lemon" and must be re-purchased from the customer at full price.

I am sure, every major auto manufacturer has had to "buy back" vehicles. In all case they are repaired and resold, typically with full disclosure and with the full factory warranty "clock" reset to zero.

IMHO, it about time this gets applied to RVs !


This does not have anything to do with "Lemon Laws".

What the Illinois Supreme Court ruled is that under the Illinois adoption of the Uniform Commercial Code, under two circumstances a buyer can "Revoke Acceptance" of the sale.

From the horses mouth;

We agree with this interpretation. The plain language of the statute evinces the General Assemblyโ€™s...

This ruling is not specific to RV's. It supposedly can be applied to any type of vehicle, a new home, a TV, a can of beans, or a roll of toilet paper that your finger poked through. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out. As I said before it all comes down to if a state adopted the UCC including the specific section / article of the UCC which is under Article 2. A state could adopt the entire code, a single article, or even a single clause / sentence. Its no different than a building code.

You can bet your rear end that the RVIA, RVDA, Palomino RV (Forest River) are going to provide the funds necessary to appeal this ruling. I would assume to Federal Court and maybe even to the SCOTUS eventually but I'm not an attorney so not sure, maybe one of the members here that is can chime in?

Stay tuned, for about 10 years, because this ruling took 5 years to shake out.
"Now the Subaru with the โ€œcoexistโ€ sticker on the back doing 68 mph passing a semi thatโ€™s going 67mph in a 70 zone. Yeah Iโ€™ll slap the entitlement tag on them leaf lickers!" - Grit Dog - Warning, you may find the preceding offensive if you lick leaves.

jplante4
Explorer
Explorer
free radical wrote:
Or the manufacturers could make sure their products are built well in the first place.
Why is that so hard to do?


Because no one will be able to afford to buy your product. You can get a well built coach right now... from Marathon, Liberty, Country Coach etc. Just bring your checkbook.
Jerry & Jeanne
1996 Safari Sahara 3530 - 'White Tiger'
CAT 3126/Allison 6 speed/Magnum Chassis
2014 Equinox AWD / Blue Ox

valhalla360
Nomad
Nomad
theoldwizard1 wrote:
valhalla360 wrote:
Sounds like they were yanked around and it literally took an excessive amount of time to address.

Similar to automobiles, if they fix things in a timely manner, it's not covered by lemon laws but if it gets crazy, it is.

Lemon laws vary state to state, but in general, factory representatives (dealers) are given a certain number of attempts to repair an issue. Also there is a limited number of days that the vehicle can be away from the customer. If either are exceeded, it is a "lemon" and must be re-purchased from the customer at full price.

I am sure, every major auto manufacturer has had to "buy back" vehicles. In all case they are repaired and resold, typically with full disclosure and with the full factory warranty "clock" reset to zero.

IMHO, it about time this gets applied to RVs !


That's all well and good but you left out the response likely to occur...They will simply stop selling in Illinois and thus not be subject to Illinois lemon laws.
Tammy & Mike
Ford F250 V10
2021 Gray Wolf
Gemini Catamaran 34'
Full Time spliting time between boat and RV

colliehauler
Explorer
Explorer
JimK-NY wrote:
If we want a comparison to the auto industry, remember how bad those 1970 cars were. Remember the sabotage that often occurred due to the union-management battles. The door was open for Toyota, VW, Datsun and a host of other foreign manufacturers. Many of us gladly and quickly jumped ship for the newer choices and some of us will never return to buying American cars. The RV industry is in need of foreign competition. Maybe the Chinese....or we can at least hope...
Did you run out and purchase a I-Camp trailer (Chinese built travel trailer)? Neither did anyone else. Most of the components in your RV are already built by Lippert in China.

colliehauler
Explorer
Explorer
jseyfert3 wrote:
down home wrote:

Look at what has happened to the auto industry in the US since the Seventies. how many choices do you now have? How many did we have in 1970?

Not sure what you're getting at here. You seem to be implying the natural course of things is towards fewer choices and monopolies. Being a young guy (born in '91) I certainly wasn't around in the 70's, but from what I read there is way more choice now that in the 70's, and all of it much higher quality than the 70's. Which seems opposite your point, unless I misunderstand you?
I'm not down home but your assessment of fewer choices and monopolies is correct. Their were way more manufacturers (especially the quality high end brands) that went out of business (a lot of them during the 2008 downturn). A lot more independent brands were purchased by Thor (Keystone) or Forest River.

If you get a chance look at some of the old high end brands and actually see what quality looks like. Teton, Travel Supreme, Carriage, Excel, NuWa, Continental by Forks, Newmar, Holiday Rambler, just to name a few that no longer exists. Only two custom builders remain New Horizon and Spacecraft. Don't just look at the glitz crawl under and look at the frames and welds and construction. Now their are two big companies and a handful of independent mfgs.

Today it's more about price then quality. There are a lot more Walmarts then Neiman Marcus stores.

JimK-NY
Explorer II
Explorer II
If we want a comparison to the auto industry, remember how bad those 1970 cars were. Remember the sabotage that often occurred due to the union-management battles. The door was open for Toyota, VW, Datsun and a host of other foreign manufacturers. Many of us gladly and quickly jumped ship for the newer choices and some of us will never return to buying American cars. The RV industry is in need of foreign competition. Maybe the Chinese....or we can at least hope...

jseyfert3
Explorer
Explorer
down home wrote:

Look at what has happened to the auto industry in the US since the Seventies. how many choices do you now have? How many did we have in 1970?

Not sure what you're getting at here. You seem to be implying the natural course of things is towards fewer choices and monopolies. Being a young guy (born in '91) I certainly wasn't around in the 70's, but from what I read there is way more choice now that in the 70's, and all of it much higher quality than the 70's. Which seems opposite your point, unless I misunderstand you?
Formerly a 2015 Rockwood Mini Lite 2306, burned in a barn fire. Looking at replacements.