RVs and California's Planned Power Outages

[CoachPotato]

(I did several searches here for this topic, and found none. If this has already been discussed, please point me to the thread.)

Here in Kalifornistan, the power is purposely being turned off to thousands of homes in large areas for up to five days to prevent electrically caused wildfires during dry, high wind conditions. They're not just planned, but power outages have already been inflicted upon thousands of people, causing incredible problems. Imagine power being off up to five days - no gas or propane pumped, groceries rotting, markets losing tons of frozen/refrigerated food, signal lights out, etc. It causes pure chaos. The longer outages would even cause water shortages.

My dear Wifey and I are mid 70s, and our son suggested recently that he would be willing to help install a generator for us in the event we may be one of those thousands left powerless. It was a pleasure to remind him that we have the motor home to live in - and even to escape the entire chaotic area if we wanted! With the outage threat we face here, I now keep the propane tank full, the diesel tank full, the fresh water tank full, ready to move into and live comfortably for the duration.

We know of one neighbor who has paid thousands to have a generator installed outside his home that runs on natural gas, a very good choice since gasoline would likely be hard to come by in an extended outage. Other neighbors (we're in a senior gated community) continue to discuss their options, of which there seem to be few.

I wonder if any other RVers in threatened areas have planned to do the same as we have. It seems an interesting topic for discussion as we RVers really do have a solution - especially those with RVs equipped with generators and larger tank capacities that many Class A owners have.

Any thoughts?

[MRUSA]

Living in Florida, we use our RV as an emergency venue in case of hurricanes. We keep the waste tanks empty, water and fuel tanks full so we can live in it in all its self contained glory. Saved us from installing a home generator as many neighbors have done at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars. There have been times when we lost power for up to 4 days and we were completely comfortable in the RV. Of course it could be longer. We can dry camp for at least 10 days before we would have to find dump and fill facilities.

[4x4van]

Dutch_12078 wrote:
I was told by an Asplundh tree trimming supervisor the standard used by most power companies is 18 feet, not 18 inches. Asplundh is a line clearance contractor that works for many power companies in the US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

In CA, General Order 95 (GO-95) states that radial clearances of bare line conductors up to 22.5kV (22,500 volts) from tree branches or foliage is 18" (I'm looking at the GO-95 specs as I type this; Table 1, case 13). Higher voltages are typically Transmission, and are usually on very tall poles/towers, and as such are not normally an issue for tree clearance. As Dutch said, those clearances are based on a formula rather than a fixed number, and are more based on clearances between the lines themselves rather than between the lines and vegetation.

I am not as familiar with the rest of the country, since they go by NESC rather than CA's GO-95, but generally speaking, GO-95 is usually even stricter than NESC. In a cursory search, I can find no reference to clearances from trees in the current NESC.

[Dutch_12078]

The 18 foot standard is for the lower 4,000-36,000 volt distribution lines typically used to feed the transformers that supply residences and businesses. The higher 200,000+ volt distribution lines typically seen on tall steel or aluminum towers have a complex formula for determining the acceptable clearances in compliance with the ANSI standards developed by the North American Electric Reliability Corporation (NERC).

[wa8yxm]

if the state law is 18" and the power company trims to 18'. well. that complies.

But stupid and poorly and even TYPOed laws (note the difference between inches and feet in the opening sentence is the SHIFT key). Abound in every state or government from here to there and back again EVERY government. And for that matter Religions as well. Typos happen. that is a fact.

[Dutch_12078]

I was told by an Asplundh tree trimming supervisor the standard used by most power companies is 18 feet, not 18 inches. Asplundh is a line clearance contractor that works for many power companies in the US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

[4x4van]

WVcampground wrote:

4x4van wrote:
Also, it is State Law that trees are trimmed a minimum of 18" from electric lines.

That's a stupid law, only in California could they have something that.

Here they clear cut the entire right of way easement back to a vertical line, at whatever the edge of the easement is. It's a heck of a lot further than a foot and a half. You can have an 80' white pine on your property with half of it in the easement, and they'll trim the entire one side of it off to a nice plumb straight vertical plane so fast your head will spin.

I agree, 18" is not nearly enough. But you also have to remember that CA is inhabited by environmental tree-huggers; they'd prefer that nothing be done to a tree in any way. :S

[WVcampground]

4x4van wrote:
Also, it is State Law that trees are trimmed a minimum of 18" from electric lines.

That's a stupid law, only in California could they have something that.

Here they clear cut the entire right of way easement back to a vertical line, at whatever the edge of the easement is. It's a heck of a lot further than a foot and a half. You can have an 80' white pine on your property with half of it in the easement, and they'll trim the entire one side of it off to a nice plumb straight vertical plane so fast your head will spin.

[T18skyguy]

4x4van wrote:

T18skyguy wrote:

My brother in law is very high up at the DWP in Los Angeles. He told me those tree trimmers only trim the tree back a few inches from the lines. That keeps them employed because they need to be called again next year to trim again.

No offense to you or your BIL, but I highly doubt that. I work for RPU (Riverside Public Utilities), and we have a constant, ongoing tree trimming program that costs us more than $100,000 per month. LADWP's territory is many times larger than Riversides', so they are undoubtedly spending even more. Also, it is State Law that trees are trimmed a minimum of 18" from electric lines.

crawford wrote:
Just thinking what was said for a extra 50 million isn't worth it after all the the homes that were burnt the the ground not just a few and over the past 5 years or so really makes little sense IMO that is.

50 million dollars wouldn't underground even a half mile of high voltage transmission lines. Just how many miles of overhead lines do you suppose there are in California? 25,000 miles of transmission lines ($150 million PER MILE) and 160,000 miles of distribution lines ($1 to $3 million PER MILE). Do the math: it would cost over $4 TRILLION to bury all of the electric lines in CA.

4x4van, I believe what your saying, but how many laws get ignored, and who goes up to measure to enforce it? At a minimum they need to change it to make it many feet instead of inches, particularly with these winds. If your in management at Riverside, you may know my bil. I've heard him talk of Riverside and people there a number of times.

[vjstangelo]

ArchHoagland wrote:
We keep our coach parked next to the house with a full tank of gas.

If power goes out for a long time I can fire up the generator and run an extension cord to the freezer and refrigerator inside our house.

75 gallons of gas would be good for about a week or so.

In the Loma Prieta earthquake we lived in Salinas and had no power for several days. Discovered you can't buy gas when power is off for days so now my vehicles never get below a half tank and my coach is always full when stored by the house.

Having a free standing generator could be a problem without a lot of gas stored at your home.

Ditto on using the Onan genset on our Class A feeding off of the 70 gal tank.

[4x4van]

T18skyguy wrote:

My brother in law is very high up at the DWP in Los Angeles. He told me those tree trimmers only trim the tree back a few inches from the lines. That keeps them employed because they need to be called again next year to trim again.

No offense to you or your BIL, but I highly doubt that. I work for RPU (Riverside Public Utilities), and we have a constant, ongoing tree trimming program that costs us more than $100,000 per month. LADWP's territory is many times larger than Riversides', so they are undoubtedly spending even more. Also, it is State Law that trees are trimmed a minimum of 18" from electric lines.

crawford wrote:
Just thinking what was said for a extra 50 million isn't worth it after all the the homes that were burnt the the ground not just a few and over the past 5 years or so really makes little sense IMO that is.

50 million dollars wouldn't underground even a half mile of high voltage transmission lines. Just how many miles of overhead lines do you suppose there are in California? 25,000 miles of transmission lines ($150 million PER MILE) and 160,000 miles of distribution lines ($1 to $3 million PER MILE). Do the math: it would cost over $4 TRILLION to bury all of the electric lines in CA.

[ppine]

The situation in California is the intersection of several seemingly unrelated factors. Denial of fire danger. Poor infrastructure (powerlines, roads). Lack of defensible space. People so concerned about the environment that they refuse to manage forests. Lack of government intervention when it actually is required. The whole culture seems to be breaking down. I would move.

I have actually been lured to California several times by high paying jobs. I never lasted very long and have not lived there in over 40 years. Now you can see why.

[time2roll]

All the more reason to have distributed solar and battery systems to reduce transmission lines.
Going to get worse before it gets better.

[crawford]

Just thinking what was said for a extra 50 million isn't worth it after all the the homes that were burnt the the ground not just a few and over the past 5 years or so really makes little sense IMO that is.

[T18skyguy]

wa8yxm wrote:
Learning more about this every day
IT would be best to properly trim trees and maintain lines.
Or bury the lines
But when PG&E sends out tree trimmers residents send lawyers "THey are ruining our trees" and now that they are turning off power "They are spoiling our food" will be the lawyer's claim.. Sadly I suspect the residents will pitch a complaint if they bury the lines too.. but .. Well..

My brother in law is very high up at the DWP in Los Angeles. He told me those tree trimmers only trim the tree back a few inches from the lines. That keeps them employed because they need to be called again next year to trim again. Today they are calling for 80 mph Santa Ana winds. That kind of wind blows huge limbs into the lines that bring them down. California is actually a mountainous desert area sustained only by piped in water. This problem is only going to get worse as the disparity with extreme temperatures generate even greater winds. I think backup generators with transfer switches will become standard there. Gentrac makes good ones, I have one myself that powers 6 circuits with no feedback to the utility lines. I'm really glad I got out of California years ago.